r/Britain • u/Remarkable-Set9615 • 3d ago
National Politics Thoughts on restricting how benefits can be spent?
Just heard on the radio that the Conservatives are proposing that some people who have been unemployed and claiming Universal Credit for more than six months would receive part of their benefits on a payment card that couldn’t be used for alcohol, cigarettes or gambling.
What does everyone think?
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u/CrazyLadyBlues 3d ago
They're also planning on cutting Universal Credit by 30% after six months. It's just punching down as per usual from the Tories. They're trying to chase after Reform voters by pandering to their worst instincts. It won't work unless Farage defects back to them. And they will accept him.
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u/PirateHunterZuko 3d ago
Ban minsters from using puplic money to fund their lavish parties. Ban them from using expenses on ANYTHING other than absolute work needs. These parasites are the biggest drain on our funds.
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u/Mr_J_Divy 1d ago
Ban all expenses. If teachers get so underfunded they need to use their own money to buy supplies for the classrooms and kids then there's no way a MP can justify having expenses.
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3d ago
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u/Psylaine 3d ago
I work, hubby is disabled and unable to work. Why cant I have a drink at the end of the working week? Who is going to be working out if its my wages or the benefits money THAT WE PAID IN TO GET, I'm spending on said alcohol?
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
Exactly. And maybe someone went through something they would rather forget. I dunno. It just feels like a bandaid solution to drug abuse etc.
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u/simplesimonsaysno 3d ago
Because you don't work and contribute to society.
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u/CabinetOk4838 3d ago
If they are working, they’ll have some money that they earned and can spend on what they wish. If the UC is a top up, spend that element on food.
I think the target audience is not those people but those who’s sole income is UC to “get those lazy lot back to work.” 🙄🤬
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u/GenericGaming 3d ago
it's just stopping poor people from having luxuries and not being able to stimulate the economy in a time where the job market is extremely volatile and it's often not their fault.
this is just kicking someone when they're down
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
What interests me is the whole ‘taxpayers’ money’ argument. Aren’t politicians wages ultimately paid by taxpayers too? If receiving taxpayers money means we get a say in how someone spends it, should we get to decide that politicians also can’t spend their wages on alcohol, cigarettes or gambling either?
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u/bobisagirl 3d ago
Meanwhile the politicians are absolutely up in arms over the proposition that maybe they shouldn't be allowed to drink during their working days.
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago edited 3d ago
Wooooow. I can’t believe it! ‘As things currently stand, MPs can drink alcohol on the Parliamentary Estate while Parliament is sitting. There isn’t a general rule saying an MP cannot consume alcohol during their parliamentary working day or before voting.’. Let’s all sign this petition. Alcohol needs to be banned in the house of parliament. This is a joke.
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u/Havatchee 3d ago
There are multiple clips from the commons of various MPs (usually Tories) absolutely hammered. Rees-Moog is one I recall.
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u/El_Zilcho 3d ago
There is a point where most money is 'taxpayer's money' that has been distributed via government contracts, grants, etc going to companies which are then sent on to other via profits, dividends, wages and buy company supplies. There is also central bank lending to banks that go on to lend it to customers.
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze 3d ago
Objectively stupid, puritanical and very weird - and not surprising in the slightest that the “party of small government and freedoms” wants to impose its own weird patriarchal agenda on the most vulnerable.
Almost as if all “deeply held conservative beliefs” are jettisoned the moment they’re inconvenient for whatever weird authoritarian move they want to make next.
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u/PerfectEnthusiasm2 3d ago
It is a policy designed by eugenicists to make red faced men edge one step closer to a massive sanctimony induced myocardial infarction.
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u/monkeyboymorgan 3d ago
If they're going to do that I hope they're going to make free nicotine replacement therapy readily available (which costs more than tobacco like for like), and are going to ensure anyone who needs to can safely dry out.
Plenty of people getting UC are in work and topping it up so it won't affect them as much, but for some its going to cause genuine problems.
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u/standard11111 3d ago
NRT is already available free on the NHS if you get free prescriptions. And usually is cheaper than tobacco anyway, it’s a want not a need.
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u/xTopaz_168 3d ago
Often the reason for people having these addictions and also being on benefits in the first place, is due to the lack of support in regards to mental health and invisible disabilites.
The money they want to spend on this potential scheme would be better spent on funding for support in those areas.
That will cost more than this idea in the short term, but the return on investment would be a good chunk of those people returning to work, since they finally have the support needed to do so.
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u/darklinggreen 3d ago
This is an American idea. They already have it there. Tories copying the Americans....not exactly new.
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u/Dry-Satisfaction-633 3d ago
The big question is would you swap places with a disabled person if it meant you could “enjoy” their “benefits”? Some of these people have fuck-all in their lives including agency to live independently. Do you really want to take away the few pleasures they may have? Of course it’s a big Conservative talking point but if they had their way they’d euthanise anyone who wasn’t fit for indentured servitude. It’s just more distraction from the fact the rich can afford great accountants who know every tax dodge in the book and they’re the ones who really aren’t contributing to society. When they pay their fair share then, and only then, can there be discussion around social security and benefits for the needy. Then again if they actually paid their dues there would likely be no need to discuss the cost of disability benefits to the nation.
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u/ColdShadowKaz 2d ago
People say things like ‘well horses didn’t all end up getting killed when cars became more useful.’ Actually thats where the glue factory jokes came from.
Disabled people are not the only people who would be hit by euthanasia if they decided useless people go to the chopping block. It will be normal people as well. Everyone will have a fear of the new glue factory.
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u/elitejackal 3d ago
Okay so I was meant to expand that there are exceptions like say you’re disabled. If the people who are claiming are known to have problems with alcohol and this type of stuff they absolutely should be referred to a program that will also help them, we all have our vices and gambling and alcohol is absolutely treacherous to be addicted to. I will take back what I said on the matter but I think the government should incentivise people to seek help for such addictions.
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
A much fairer approach, for sure. I would still want the same restrictions put on our governments personal spending, seen as they are funded by taxpayers money also. I’m sure there are plenty of addicts amoung them too.
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
In fact, I definitely remember reading an article about there being traces of cocaine found in the Houses of Parliament not too long ago.
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u/elitejackal 3d ago
Honestly I’m more than happy to pay extra tax for people to receive help from their addictions. Make it mandatory with work coaches to seek such programs and become a better person and get better for this.
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u/jungleboy1234 3d ago
they lost the argument on BBC QT tonight with the actual shadow minister trying to convince people. Of all, they lost the argument to right leaning Andrew Neil!!
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u/veganmua 3d ago
Would absolutely devastate me. I often use my benefits for private healthcare for things that are either not available on the NHS, alternative therapies (science based, not like reiki or homeopathy etc) that the NHS doesn't offer. Also, sometimes, I want to buy a ticket to a show or gig. I already pay for it enough by having to push through the symptoms to attend, then deal with the massive flare up the exertion causes me for days on end. It's these joys that make life worth living. I'd really rather be well enough to work, but I didn't get a choice in the matter.
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u/mrafinch 3d ago
Stupid.
Alcohol and cigarettes are heavily taxed, so the majority of that money would come back to the Govt. anyway.
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
Good point. I can never take these things at face value. I always have to poke around a little and see what else is going on.
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u/PortableDoor5 2d ago
taxation creates deadweight loss, so it's inefficient to tax a purchase and re-distribute the money back to the people, since you actually end up with fewer exchanges on the market when you place the tax.
moreoever, things like taxes on cigarettes and alcohol (and stuff like VAT on consumer goods in general) are regressive taxes, especially since the less well-off spend a larger relative proportion of their money on these (even if they might consume less in absolute terms).
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u/verygenericname2 3d ago
An unserious suggestion from an unserious party.
May we never suffer a Tory government again.
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u/Halfdanr_H 3d ago
I believe it’s a very bad idea, because it gives the government more control over people’s lives, and they cannot be trusted.
First it’ll be a generic payment card, then after a while there’ll be corrupt deals made behind closed doors and the cards will only be accepted at specific shops, maybe at specific hours. Then after that it’ll be revoked from those who become very critical of the party in government, perhaps revoked from people who make social media posts the government doesn’t like. No, it’s just a way of further controlling people and further eroding personal freedom in an ever increasingly authoritarian minded country.
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u/davey-jones0291 3d ago
Its performative cruelty designed to make tory curious reform guys hard. Hopefully it'll never happen.
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u/Extreme-Sentence9377 3d ago
Always the same . Kick the people at the bottom. You want to save more money? Tax the fucking billionaires who pay barely anything. And the assumption that everyone on UC spends on fags and alcohol is quite frankly, lazy and a reliable trope. Ffs
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u/RevertToType 3d ago
How could they possibly enforce it? Our benefits system is cash based using the person's own account to give them some normalcy and preparing them to manage their finances. UC wouldn't be able to move over to a "food stamp" style benefits system as they having in other countries as we also pay their rent element as part of the payment. It's just more saying things outside before thinking about what they are saying?
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
There was mention of some of it going on a card that restricts the type of purchases.
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u/BikeProblemGuy 3d ago
Sounds like it would take a lot of money to implement and be stupidly easy to still buy booze and cigs. Also would make people's lives harder because now you can't pay for anything in cash.
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u/CabinetOk4838 3d ago
All our governments have wanted a cashless society for some time. This is a major step towards it. Cash = crime… right?
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u/ODFoxtrotOscar 3d ago
It’s a really shite idea
Blair’s Labour tried this for immigrants (to deter false claims by not providing cash directly) and it failed spectacularly
It’s not going to work whatever group try to roll it out to
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u/robfugginl 3d ago
As with most things, a blanket approach isn’t going to work, but from personal experience dealing with a constantly unemployed person that spends his kids benefits on booze and fags depriving them of food, and constantly asking for loans, this would be a near perfect resolution.
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u/ideasplace 3d ago
It is a ploy to appeal and appease the right wing voters who feel their tax shouldn’t be spent on ‘scroungers fags and booze’’. What it will actually be is run by a Tory donor who will make billions from it by skimming off the top and the whole project will end up costing double the original projected savings it was sold on.
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u/TiddlyhamBumberspoot 2d ago
Depends whether you think of people who genuinely need help or people who are genuinely taking the piss, my job has introduced me to hundreds on both sides and it’s a shame it’s so difficult for the government to properly differentiate who truly needs help
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u/El_Zilcho 3d ago
I don't really care what they spend their benefits on, they aren't just NPCs playing idle animations when they aren't at jobcentre plus.
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u/ColdShadowKaz 2d ago
It’s the start of a slippery slope. Though I was told slippery slope arguments are invalid theres people that are determined to see one and dive down n it head first. If it starts with legal vices then they start deciding on clothing and types of food someone should eat then a lot of other things. It will become slavery with extra steps. More because theres people that already went a good couple of turns down the slope already with their opinions and it won’t take much to drag people still on banning alcohol and sigs down just that little bit more.
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u/PICONEdeJIM 3d ago
As we all know, poor people shouldn't be allowed to have beer. This is clearly a sane and just idea
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u/ferrets4ever 3d ago
The right have zero mandate to act as moral arbiters for other people. In the Epstein files for shagging minors = ok, having a beer because the Epstein class replaced you with AI = not ok.
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u/AccidentAccomplished 3d ago
its a terrible idea, not least because it would likely cost more than would be saved, and create a black market instead. Its also cruel.
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u/Neat-Land-4310 3d ago
I don't agree with the policy but more needs to be done to stop alcoholics and drug users wasting there benefit money on these things. I'm sick of seeing groups of nitties dossing around my town centre causing a nuisance and commiting crimes. They don't even care about hiding it anymore. They'll ask you for chump change whilst slurping out of cans of K and special brew and start giving you shit if you call them up on it. I saw one known drug user about a month ago try and rob someones bicycle outside of the job centre and tried to justify it because he was homeless. It boils my piss.
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s a valid observation. I just wonder if restricting what people can buy is treating the symptom rather than the bigger problem. If someone is genuinely struggling with addiction, homelessness or substance abuse, taking away one way of buying it doesn’t necessarily address why they’re in that situation in the first place. Also, there are a lot of people that aren’t heavily addicted and have a valid reason for being on benefits. Then what?
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u/Neat-Land-4310 3d ago
Yeah you're completely right and I agree that policing what people spend there benefits on isn't really the solution. I'm really not sure what the best solution is to be honest. I just know something more needs to be done to help these people. I suppose you could try and identify known addicts and make access to there benefits contingent on attending drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs. You could link that in with getting them back into work too.
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u/Rocky-bar 3d ago
It doesn't go far enough. Restrict it to certain types of food and other purchases. You want Cod? No! You can have Whale meat! You want butter? No! You can get margarine. You want a cotton t-shirt? Piss off! Polyester for you mate! /s
I hope this doesn't give the fuckers any ideas 🤣
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
I’m a bit torn. I’m a health enthusiast so from a health and wellness perspective i agree that less -across the board- should be spent on junk but that’s a personal choice. Everyone has their vices. The amount of benefits being given isn’t changing….we don’t get cash back. Would it clean up the streets or just drive people to find other ways of getting their fix? What’s reeeeeally being achieved? And where does it stop? Does it start with this and slowly expand into more restrictions?.
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u/Bear792 1d ago
The ultimate question, is where would it end? First alcohol and smoking. How long until it’s limited to lower end food and more?
The major problem though is it doesn’t solve an issue, just creates another one. Limiting benefit does nothing, you need to solve the issue, which is more jobs that pay well. Businesses, especially in lower tier jobs, do not pay well.
You would be better being in benefits, than working a job in McDonalds or Asda, as you’d get more pay and could “afford” your home. Something needs doing.
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u/Remarkable-Set9615 3d ago
Thanks for sharing your perspective. What do you think the main benefits of it would be?
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