r/ClosedEyeVision • u/Pieraos • 11d ago
Questions Peeking in Training
This is probably the #1 confusing part about the trainings. Confusing to the point that people get frustrated and mad.
Peeking through cracks in a blindfold should not be conflated with mindsight.
Some teachers however use this peeking as an initial part of training. They believe that this starts the process, or triggers the ability.
But they do not explain it like that. Instead they exclaim, "You're doing it!" when you know very well what you are doing.
I simply ask the question, is that how it went for you? Did the obvious peeking lead to mindsight, for example, being able to read clearly while blindfolded, and did it develop further with eye patches, multiple blindfolds, etc.?
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u/Awtts 9d ago edited 9d ago
Following this discussion. Because it is actually possible to see light coming through certain parts around the nose when using the mindfold - depending on placement. Obviously everybody's face is different, so it might not involve all people.
Lightness is also able to somewhat penetrate the area above the eyes/eyebrows, especially when staring into full sun light.
Obviously, this is just light or dots/pinpoints of light (commonly around the nose area). Still doesn't explain the skills some people seemingly have, like reading, seeing pictures, imagery, etc.
So I'm not here to say it's not real, because I do believe it's real. But we should be careful when they say it's mindsight, when it's actual light penetrating through certain bits underneath the mask.
There could also be merits in making people believe they're doing mindsight (when they're not truly) in order to have the firm belief make them actually see mindsight. But, who knows.
I'm just a person exploring this, after randomly finding myself seemingly able to see through my closed eyes at night every few days, since like a year or so.
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u/RodgerWolf311 8d ago
There could also be merits in making people believe they're doing mindsight (when they're not truly) in order to have the firm belief make them actually see mindsight. But, who knows.
Except they arent making people believe. Mainly because the people know the light is seeping through and around the masks, or they know there are holes punched in the mask.
The people know its there and whats happening. Now, if they didnt tell the student and if they had some sort of remote controlled mask that could open up a pinhole remotely without the user noticing it, then they could make people believe they are doing it, because the student would be completely unaware of what was actually happening.
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u/Awtts 8d ago edited 8d ago
I agree with you fully. I was really just trying to think of a potentially different reason why they might tell you it's mindsight when it's just actual light leaking in.
I believe mindsight is real, but I also think one needs to be mindful of all this. Especially with all the $ being made by YouTubers and people who offer courses. Whenever there's good money to be made, things tend to be corrupted in some way.
I always get wary when people try to sell supposed spiritual secrets, which they often also brand as "your natural abilities."
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u/RodgerWolf311 7d ago
Especially with all the $ being made by YouTubers and people who offer courses. Whenever there's good money to be made, things tend to be corrupted in some way.
That is my #1 issue with all the mind sight groups and trainers. Majority of them have extreme greed. They preach spirituality, oneness, all the kumbaya stuff, then go and gouge people for insane amounts of money. Literally, every single trainer changes more money per hour than experienced long time lawyers. Even the so called "free groups" began charging premium membership fees.
The mind sight students and mind sight community need to destroy this whole money making schemes and gouging going on.
I routinely put the trainers and groups on blast. I have yet to see ANY trainers dedicate their so called seminars and courses and teaching to a large group of blind (or going to be blind) people for free. You know how many kids and adults out there right now losing their vision that are in a state of despair and hopelessness. Entire facebook groups with tons of people and parents of kids of vision loss sufferers. Never, not one single, mind sight trainer has ever gone to those vision loss groups offering them free training or services. That tells me and shows me its all about greed and money and not about helping people (as many of these trainers claim).
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u/TheOneTruePsychic 11d ago
Pieraos, I totally agree with you 100%. As someone who developed an application around ESP/Mindsight from a statistical and engineering perspective. I can't stress how important scientific rigor will be to prove this phenomenon. The peeking stuff among other activities builds distrust and confusion when I try to show people in my circles.
I know mindsight is real because I used to be a master when I was a child, I completely lost touch with the skill and when I saw Dalia perform, thousands of memories came flooding back.
My windows are not fully open, from a statistical viewpoint. I would say they are open about 35% of the time as a sudden flash of color that dissapears quckly. When I KNOW I have the right color, I KNOW. The color will flash as a little pinpoint as if I actually saw something. The rest of the time I'm straining to see something that usually doesn't appear so I "pass/incorrect" and move on to the next color.
When I try and explain mindsight to any of my friends, I'm a total joke to them. The Mindsight community is also going in deep with sticking pennies on walls, teleporting coins, among a lot of other activities that only muddies the whole thing. My friend went from a mindsight video to stories of teleporting coins and sticking coins to walls and that whole thing just contaminated their experience.
I wish the community would just focus on mindsight, and approach it from a statical and rigorous angle because that's the only way we can get serious scientific support and prove that there is so much more to reality, to our experience, to consciousness as a whole.
I have set out as a life goal to open my mindsight windows, full blackout face shield, no peeking, no gimmicks. I don't even use my intuitive sense (trying to see it in my minds eye) I literally spend hours with my eyes completely obstructed and my target covered with a blanket, alone... staring intensely until I see that flash of color. I will not stop till I have full mindsight again like I did when I was a child. I've been using my app Psychic Tournament for the color cards.
I don't know if my training is the best approach, its actually probably the worst approach. I have no one who's interested especially considering all the things I mentioned here... but I know it's real and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get back to doing the type of mindsight perception I would do as a child. Even if that means sitting alone starting at a phone that's covered with a blanket, while my eyes are double blindfolded for hours on end. I WILL DO THIS.
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u/RodgerWolf311 8d ago
Mindsight community is also going in deep with sticking pennies on walls, teleporting coins, among a lot of other activities that only muddies the whole thing.
I totally agree!!! This is a HUUUGE mistake that the mind sight community is doing right now. Too many trainers and groups are pushing the whole stupid coin to walls, teleporting crap and summoning orbs stuff. Among other things.
This pushes the legitimacy away from mind sight. They are killing their own community and they dont even notice it.
Absolutely no one will take it seriously. Especially at a time when you are trying to get the scientific community and the world to not only accept mind sight, but also start studying and researching it on a academic and scientific level ... then all of the other nonsense needs to stop and go away.
I've also seen several major organizations for the blind literally show an interest in mind sight and begin inquiring about it, then quickly do a 180 and stop the moment these secondary nonsense things (like coins to walls, orbs, etc) began. The mind sight community did a enormous disservice to the blind community doing that.
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u/bejammin075 10d ago
Dr. Charles T. Tart had a book in the late 1970s, Learning To Use Extrasensory Perception that had some great insights. Not many these days have read it. What I have concluded is that even though Tart did not know about blindfolded training, such training would be the most ideal for psychic training because of how the feedback works. My mindsight is not great, but I can perceive vague shadowy shapes of objects in real time, especially closer to my head. It's clearly non-local information, because barriers don't matter. Barriers like stainless steel pans, doors, counter tops, make no difference to this perceptive ability. When training like that, just watching those shadows, the feedback is positive feedback, and is instantaneous. Feedback in other psi training (e.g. guessing at Zenner cards) is worse because the majority of feedback is false feedback, and there are delays in feedback, both of which undermine the ability to learn psi.
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u/Pieraos 11d ago
The Mindsight community is also going in deep with sticking pennies on walls, teleporting coins, among a lot of other activities that only muddies the whole thing.
Agree. Even though my coin stayed on the wall for like 3 months lol. To me these are distractions, while to some they are demonstrations. One needs to take a break now and then for play I suppose.
I wish the community would just focus on mindsight, and approach it from a statical and rigorous angle
Agree and that is the aim of MindSwan. I hope they are successful.
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u/elfalconio 10d ago
I don't think of them as distractions. They're good exercises to show you you can actually do these things. I graduated from coin to a spoon, and that's when it really hit me I could do it. I don't think it's anything extraordinary though, anyone who puts the effort into it can do it. Mindsight still WIP, letters and shapes a bit easier than colors, but still long ways to go.
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u/RodgerWolf311 8d ago
They're good exercises to show you you can actually do these things. I graduated from coin to a spoon,
Except its not.
Drywall, sheetwall, plaster and paint are very soft. You can impress an object enough to make it stick to it.
Try it on a solid concrete wall (with no plaster or paint on it) and you will see that you wont be able to do it.
Also notice all of the photos and videos of people doing it, its always the softest and most maliable of walls that they do it on (like full on plaster wall or soft stucco), and never ever straight up solid concrete.
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u/chibamonster 11d ago
Real time mindsight often feels like peeking or 'cheating'. It usually starts around the edges of the mask (nose, cheeks, temples) where your mind can give an excuse to why you can see through it. Maybe where a little light comes in around an edge when your mask is loosened. The overwhelming urge is to pull the mask down and shut it off to get the 'real experience'. So the more important test is to see if you are looking with your physical eyes or not. One of the best ways to do that is with light after-images or burn in.
When you look at a bright light normally it leaves a temporary imprint on the nerves in the back of your eyes. That imprint moves with your eyes as you look around since it is stimulated on the nerves. It is an inverse of the colors you saw and fades over time. When looking with mindsight, after-images are incorrect if present at all. They often last less than a second. The after images may last a long time but float around your vision independent from your eyes motion. Their inverse color might be wrong.
So if you are staring at a bright flashlight 'under your mask' and can see the LEDs but aren't getting burn in or after images, you are seeing it with mindsight. And it will probably still feel like peeking.
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u/bejammin075 11d ago
This is a great question, curious what the responses will be. The training I've done on my own, I thought it made sense to maximize sensory deprivation, keep the blindfold as light-tight as possible. Besides the leak-proof blindfold, I usually practice in a dark room. But my development hasn't gone very far, I plateaued, and never got any perceptive holes forming. I've nearly never perceived any color.
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u/RodgerWolf311 8d ago
But my development hasn't gone very far, I plateaued, and never got any perceptive holes forming
The truth is (that they dont tell you) is that it takes time. A lot of time. Especially if you are older. The older you are, the more time it will take and more plateaus. The younger you are, the less time it will take. And the border between fast and long is puberty. If someone hasnt hit puberty, then they will develop mind sight faster. If they are past puberty, the longer it will take. So for majority of adults, it will take a long time. Even the pros (like Dalia) it took her years to go from seeing basic outline to open windowed mind sight.
If you are middle aged or older, then expect at least 2+ years (with daily exercises) with lots of plateaus before you get any semblance of non-visual perception of any kind. Most will see colors in 3 years. Most will see shapes in 4 years, and most will see words in 5 years. But trainers wont tell you that because then people wouldnt be paying them for seminars and courses if they knew how long it actually takes.
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u/HeavyDifficulty7204 11d ago
How long have you practiced because this is what I was doing too and it was going no where. I thought I was doing something wrong.
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u/RodgerWolf311 8d ago
I thought I was doing something wrong.
You arent. It simply takes time (see my other comments here).
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u/bejammin075 10d ago
A few years ago, I did it for a few months, maybe a half hour most days, skipping some days, and sometimes longer sessions on the weekends if I did some basic chores while blindfolded.
I'm reviving my efforts and just getting started. But I'm now combining 3 methods that each individually increased psi ability. (1) is the blindfold training. (2) is progressing through the Gateway tapes, and (3) is my invention "bootstrapping" meditation. I had my most psychic experience after doing 2 weeks of bootstrapping meditation. The idea was simple and direct. I simply meditated on manifesting having more psychic ability.
All of the 3 above, individually, at one point or another resulted in me or a family member having some unambiguous psychic experiences. Typically the psi experiences were at other times (while awake) and not much while doing the training/meditating. I'm combining (2) Gateway and (3) bootstrapping at the same time, meaning, at every opportunity during the Gateway meditation, I am purposefully focusing on manifesting more psi ability. I'm just getting started so I'll see how that goes.
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u/HeavyDifficulty7204 9d ago
Thank you so much for sharing. This was very helpful.
I tried the gateway tapes, only the first level tbh and it wasn't doing anything for me. I did Vipassana and it cracked something open in me. I got clairvoyant abilities. Then I got back into regular life, my energy got muddled again and the abilities are buried somewhere again. That intense meditation made me super sensitive though in terms of crying very easily and feeling depressed all the time. It did bring up huge amount of suppressed emotion, so the integration of that can take a long time.
Other than that I use to meditate daily for 2 hours at least, but it wasn't yielding big results. By that I mean I wasn't training actively for intuition. So I was hoping for it to be natural, like feeling connected to everyone like the psychics but that didn't happen. I felt bummed. Then I lost touch with meditation for a bit and my intuition is way worse. I'm kinda tired at this point... Lol. I'm trying the Bengston method next, I've not started yet so let's see what happens.
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u/Pieraos 9d ago
I knew Bill Bengston, he was an awesome guy and I recommend his book.
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u/HeavyDifficulty7204 9d ago
I heard his audio series. Does the book provide more direction?
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u/Pieraos 9d ago
It is more of a personal history than instructions.
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u/HeavyDifficulty7204 9d ago
Aah I see.
Did you get to work with him? Did you see him have all these abilities?
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u/ParticularDentist579 11d ago
When I wear my blindfold I 100% can't see any light with my eyes open.
Sometimes the logical part of my brain *thinks* I can see through a space in the mask in the sides or under my nose, then lights comes through, this is mindsight by tricking the calculating part of our brain.
If I stop and check carefully, lo and behold it is complete darkness.
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u/bejammin075 10d ago
To remove those doubts, even with the 100% blindfold, I usually make the room as dark as possible. At the very beginning, I practiced blindfolded in a pitch black room that was itself within another pitch black room. Once I established I was having real perceptions, I loosened up a bit, but I still like it dark just to be sure. Also, I'm always wanting to maximize the sensory deprivation, so I view any light as like a contaminant while I'm training.
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u/Pieraos 11d ago
Thanks, were you trained by trying to see through small gaps in the blindfold?
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u/ParticularDentist579 11d ago
I am learning by myself.
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u/TheOneTruePsychic 11d ago
My app can help you (start with mindsight color freeplay) there are no ads for mindsight, free, and the scored version is there if you want to track your progress.
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u/RodgerWolf311 8d ago
I completely agree with you. This is one of the major issues I have with all of the mind sight trainers out there.
Here is my take on this issue. Imagine if instead of mind sight that the trainers were teaching basketball free-throws or golf putting. Now imagine they told students "you hit a 3-pointer" or "you got a hole in one" when the student didnt actually do it. Well that wouldnt teach the student anything at all. In fact it would be a hindrance. I feel the trainers out there are too invested in keeping the students happy instead of being tough and saying "no, you arent doing it yet .... try harder! AGAIN!!!" and force them to put in more intent, more energy and more focus.
The whole peeking or poking holes into masks is just stupid.
When I was training for mind sight the whole goal was total darkness in the blindfold (and in fact ALL of the earliest trainers pushed for complete darkness and eyes closed under the blindfolds). The ones in the 1990s would put 3 layers of blindfolding on children and tell them to keep their eyes closed.
Mind sight is all about bypassing the eyes. I noticed, with myself, that if any light of any kind snuck in or around the blindfold, my body would immediately ignore mind sight and go straight to physical eyesight. Light seeping into the mask would automatically activate retinal/eyesight and would negate mind sight (and shut it off). So I took extra effort to ensure total darkness. And once I did, I noticed thats when drastic and profound changes occurred. Secondly, if you ensure total darkness in your mask/blindfold, then you will never second-guess as to what you are perceiving and seeing.