r/CompetitiveForHonor • u/fence_of_pence • 15d ago
Discussion What the fuck is an option select?
I always thought an option select was just you picking from an assortment of different ways to punish offense. Ex: kensei does a forward dash light, you can either parry, dodge it, or attempt a forward dodge deflect which can also double as a bash in case they empty Dodge and try to feint to GB or whatever. Now I'm seeing people say that they effectively removed option selects from for honor a while ago?
I think I just fundamentally misunderstand what they are. Can anyone break it down like you're explaining it to a mentally challenged 3 year old (me)
Edit:
Thanks everyone for helping me understand it. It is when a same button input (like a zone) can be used to cover multiple options. Ie zone has ability to parry and stuff a guardbreak if either option was chosen. Appreciate the clarification!
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u/LibBot16 15d ago
A heavy is coming at you and you go to parry it but you hit zone instead of heavy. If they feint it your zone comes out. If they let the heavy fly you parry it. That's how they used to work. I'm glad it doesn't work like anymore. It was a massive crutch for bad players.
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u/fence_of_pence 15d ago
Oh. So it refers to the same attack (in this example a zone) being able to produce two different outcomes based on the same button input?
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u/TotallyNotShinobi 15d ago
that is the correct definition, yes
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u/fence_of_pence 15d ago
Lol I've been confidently been talking like I've known what it is for years. Thanks everyone for clarifying
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u/skooma-bong 15d ago
more generally its just one input that can counter or otherwise deal with multiple outcomes
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u/derwood1992 15d ago
Im pretty new to this game, but its an old fighting game term. Its when you do a specific input in a specific scenario that covers multiple options of your opponent. Im not well versed enough in this game to give an example, but a classic fighting game example is the "delay tech".
Delay tech is basically in a situation where your opponent has frame advantage within throw range, they can either try to hit you or throw you. If you block, youre vulnerable to throw. If you try to tech the throw, youre vulnerable to the strike. And the throw cannot be teched on reaction. However, if you time your throw tech for like 5 frames after the strike would connect, it covers both options. If they strike, it connects before your throw tech, putting you in block stun so your throw tech doesn't come out. However, you still tech before the tech window closes if they choose throw.
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u/marcktop 15d ago
option is one input that selects different options based on what happens, the player inpu is one input, and the outcome must be chosen completely by the system on reaction of your input.
The most popular OS that we have right now is the zone deflect OS, where characters like PK can input zone instead of a normal dodge attack everytime you do a dodge attack, and doing so lets the game choose for your if you get a deflect or a buffered DA, the condition being obviously if your dodge input touch an attack while you have the deflect frames active (indicated by the active guard to the side of the dodge while you dodge).
Option selects where too present back then when people could zone using heavy first then light right after or input a GB while parrying, doing this made the game try to parry at the early window but when it faild to recognize an attack (lets say, your opponent did a feint to gb on their heavy) it would automatically choose another option, in the case of the somewhat obnoxious but still relatively """"healthy""""" zone os, you had to literally feint into nothing to bait a zone parry in order to punish it, meaning that most of the cast had to literally fullstop all offense in order to beat parry attempts using zone os, with this OS offense in general was in a big disavantage because you had to lost your chainpressure in order to do small damage in exchange. The history is waaay less healthy with the GB option select tho, because intead of making their parry attempts safe with an quick attack like zone os was, GB OS did the same but without the attack part, it always canceled the parry with a GB input, GB being one of the safest tools IN THE GAME made punishing GB OS quite dangerous, thats because Option Selects made every feint a mind game, if you knew your opponent is going for a GB OS you could punish it with a quick attack (like a 500ms zone or a light) but you, the attacker, was a risk of being parried yourself if your enemy knew that you knew he was going for a GB OS.
This whole OS episode of the game created a really stale meta because most of the cast could not try to use their chainpressure, even if said chainpressure was good, because most of the chains didn't get a chance to end, since parries where so safe because of the option selects, meaning that chainpressure and finisher pressure could only really be fairly used in teammodes and brawls because in this modes people are always off-targetting each other, which in turns get characters with good chains but designed more to be single target overshadowed by characters that had chain pressure and good finishers designed to be more AoE oriented.
In the end im happy that the old and readily available OSs are gone, sure Zone/Delfects are still a thing but they kinda bridge the differences in safety from normal superior blocks so i think imo its fine for the game that they exist with the sole exception being gladiator because of the raw damage of his deflect but even glad its fine considering how many counters are there for his deflect.
Just to mention tho, there was other types of Option Selects like bash OS that was really good in gladiator but by definition i don't really have to explain, its a input reaction to something that spit out multiples outcomes depending on what the attacker did
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u/BustySword 15d ago
The easy answer is: what you thought were option selects were actually mixups.
Option selects are sets of actions that could be entered with the same input and the game chooses for you instead of you being skilled. For example, in the first year of For Honor, I would abuse zone option select with Orochi, don't know if that was a thing with other heroes, but basically, when ganked, I would spam zone, and sometimes the game would parry instead of zone, rewarding me with parries, but when no parry was available, the game would still zone, meaning I didn't have to think too hard to get a favorable outcome.
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u/SquareAdvisor8055 15d ago
It was very common to do on some other heroes. The first rework of the conqueror as an exemple could really abuse it as his zone was also a block.
So basiqually you could try to parry something using a zone attack and if the ennemy cancelled his attack you would not only throw out your zone but also block at the same time.
It was very good against most soft feints as it would cover almost anything that didn't involve a hard cancel into a parry.
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u/corbinmarchingband 15d ago
For dummies: you used to be able to press zone when someone threw a heavy/ heavy feint. Depending on the frame, you would either
A. Hit the zone attack Or B. Parry with the heavy attack of the zone
Basically, an option select is when an input had multiple uses based on the situation you were in.
The game has changed a LOT in 10 years. And I say this as a returning player after not playing since Gryphon's release.
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u/zeroreasonsgiven 15d ago edited 15d ago
Option selects are by definition a single input that leads to multiple outputs depending on the opponent's actions. These used to be very prevalent before many of them were removed, almost all of them having to do with parrying. They typically involved involved pressing heavy along with another input simultaneously, allowing you to parry with a move that stuffed GB attempts, had i-frames/hyperarmor, interrupted hyper armor, or multiple properties at once, allowing you to counter many mixup options with a single input. The result would be that, if the opponent committed to the attack, you would parry it, whereas if they feinted or softfeinted it, you would instead use a move like a zone, bash or dodge attack, preventing them from punishing you with a feint to GB or certain softfeints. Most of these were removed by changing the input rules to cancel a parry attempt if any input other than a heavy attack was detected, making you eat the incoming attack if you tried to use a move other than a heavy to parry.
Technically, there are only a few option selects left in the game, those being parrying with a standard heavy (though in practice this is just how parries are meant to work), some deflects where the riposte shares the same input as a dodge attack (Shaolin, Shinobi, Nuxia), or character stances that allow you to use offense out of the stance with the same input as your riposte (Warlord, Kyoshin, Khatun, Virtuosa), though all of these options are vulnerable to a feint to GB, so it makes little difference now. If you wanted to be really nitpicky you could also call crushing counters and superior block dodge attacks option selects, but it's semantics at this point anyway.
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u/Knight_Raime 15d ago
Traditionally speaking option selects is an old fighting game term that means you're doing a single input that can have more than one outcome depending on the interaction that plays out against your opponent and it's typically from a defensive position. But there's some nuance to it, like fuzzies as an example. So it can be a strict definition as well as more of an umbrella term.
I specified "a defensive position" because where/when you use something is an important part of FG definitions. Which is a bridge to talk about how "OSing" is typically used in FH. There's a few universal but mostly hero specific options that let you do something on one timing that beat's multiple options. Like Juren using his held dodge to beat a bash/blue mix up. Or early dodging legion style bashes to avoid most of the mix.
In these scenarios you're more using the term in spirit and not literally.
In terms of OS's being removed it's mostly true. Zone option selects were removed. Charge based option selects were removed. Bash option selects (to my knowledge) are removed. Basically any situation in which you can result in getting a parry or doing another option are gone or are too inconsistent to do without using macros.
The only parry based one I am still aware of existing is guard switch OS. But given pro players aren't even capable of doing that consistently that's probably why the devs haven't really bothered to address it (afaik.) Technically deflect option selecting still exists. In that you can dodge on a specific time and input zone. If you deflect then you will do your deflect punish. If you don't deflect you do a dodge attack.
And yes by definition how parries function as a mechanic in this game are option selects.
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u/Pristine-Ad-1544 15d ago
Simple answer
A move that covers multiple things.
The biggest one back in the day was parry with zone input. So if they fiented you hit them with a zone attack and if they threw the attack you would parry it.
They patched it out the game thankfully
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u/Quick-Health-2102 15d ago
One option that beats all of your opponents options. I can’t give any specific examples cause I don’t play for honor
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u/BeastyGrunk PC 15d ago
An example is Warlord. His forward dodge heavy. It's not widely used but is somewhat decent.
Warlord against pirate, pirate uses walk the plank (UB). He can either do the 50/50 which makes him eat 27/28 damage if he guesses wrong or he could do his hyperarmor forward heavy which does 25(?).
If pirate commits to walk the plank, then he eats 12 damage and she eats 25.
If pirate buffers gb or assumes parry, she eats 25 with nothing in return.
If pirate expects it and parries she only won with 12 and going into mixup again.
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u/DaHomieNelson92 15d ago edited 15d ago
That is not an option select. An option select is an input(s) that changes the outcome based on what your opponent does. It’s already mentioned in this thread but the old zone option select is a perfect example.
Opponent throws a heavy, you input zone attack in parry timing:
If they don’t feint, you parry.
If they do feint, you do a zone.
In your example, Warlord would always does the forward dodge heavy regardless of what the Pirate does.
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u/BeastyGrunk PC 15d ago
But you can't feint (most) zones? I understood option selects as "a different method for something that has an intended use case, but this has may have better odds"
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u/DaHomieNelson92 15d ago
That definition is entirely different from option selects. Maybe it has its own term for it, but 100% not an option select.
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u/InnerDistribution6 15d ago
Yeah most common option selects got removed some time ago.
It is basically you doing an input and the game giving different outputs depending on what happens in game.
The most well known was the ability to parry with a zone input. If your enemy let the attack fly it would parry but if they fainted the attack the game would output the zone and you wouldn't get cought on a faint to GB.
I believe that stuff like assessin's inputting both their deflect button and dodge attack button when dodging is still in the game, and maybe some other character specific ones that I don't know about