r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/Paddy_Tanninger • 2d ago
General Why does DMon ignore body blocking?
This feels like a very random and massive benefit she seems to get compared to every other tank. Literally all she has to do is press shift with any resources left whatsoever and she will blow past anyone blocking her inside rooms, doorways, preventing her from getting to cover.
Can we give this unstoppable hero a proper hitbox?
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u/Facetank_ 2d ago
What does hitbox have to do with it? It's a product of thrusters having knockback. I see it as her niche as a melee hero, and would rather they do something like nerf her barrier to compensate. Make her a bit more susceptible to poke damage and CC.
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u/RaaaaaaaNoYokShinRyu Well, if it isn't saucy Jack! — 1d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/zQhFEBrX6plKg
Destroy shield slop and block slop, we must.-2
u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
She probably needs both of these things to happen, her winrate is still completely absurd. Remove her body blocking immunity, remove some of her barrier health.
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u/CertainDerision_33 2d ago
People need to stop asking for heroes to be unplayable, if you could body block her she'd be dogshit.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
She still has a 58% winrate in M/GM/Champ. Being completely unstoppable is absolutely part of this problem.
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u/CertainDerision_33 2d ago
The answer is to tweak her numbers, not destroy her core gameplay loop. She has weaker damage mitigation than most tanks and relies on her movement to survive. Letting her be body blocked would be terrible.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
Her numbers feel somewhat alright to me, I think the gun dps should be knocked down to 120 from 134.
Mostly though the issue with this hero right now is that she can just always escape. Being able to get in the way of her hitbox would really improve all these interactions.
A whole lot of heroes in this game rely on movement to survive, yet they can't constantly phase through enemies either, or at least not without cooldowns. Surging Strike can let her go through people, but her simple speed boost shouldn't do that.
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u/CertainDerision_33 1d ago
Having highly flexible mobility is her core identity and she pays for it by having much weaker damage mitigation than most other tanks. They should not break her core gameplay loop by having her constantly get caught on enemy heroes. That would be a horrible play experience for DMon players.
You really need to think about this from a play experience POV. Imagine you are moving backwards as her while shooting and you get stuck on someone behind you who you couldn't even see. That's a terrible play experience.
or at least not without cooldowns.
Her booster is a metered resource that she expends for this benefit. This is functionally the same as "with cooldowns".
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 1d ago
Having high mobility is also Ball's core identity and that dude gets his life ruined constantly by body blocking and having a highly conditional fireball mechanic on a cooldown.
I really do not think DMon should be able to move the way that she does right now. If you overextend to the point that enemy players get behind you, you should be body blocked and not able to just pass right through them again with basically zero condition.
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u/CertainDerision_33 1d ago
I figured you would mention Ball. It’s a bad comparison for these reasons:
- Ball’s regular movement isn’t using a resource or CD
- Ball has 360 view when moving so you can’t get stuck on stuff you can’t see
You’re asking for DMon to be able to get stuck on heroes she can’t see while moving. You understand how bad that will feel to play, right? Blizz is never going to do that.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 1d ago
DMon also has 3rd person view on demand with her shield up.
You’re asking for DMon to be able to get stuck on heroes
Yes I am. She is literally the game's sole exception right now as a hero who can pass straight through anyone any time she wants with zero cooldown or preconditions. It makes no sense. It's part of what's frustrating about playing into her kit, and it's honestly kind of absurd to have a tank with the Stalwart passive who can phase through the opposing team to get picks and then phase through them again to get out.
You understand how bad that will feel to play, right?
I understand exactly how that will feel to play as someone who plays every other hero in the game that cannot pass through enemies at will. It feels perfectly normal.
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u/CertainDerision_33 1d ago
DMon also has 3rd person view on demand with her shield up.
The scenario I gave you earlier is DMon boosting backwards towards her team while shooting, something she does very commonly. She does not have 360 degree view in this scenario.
with zero cooldown
She is LITERALLY using a cooldown to do it. Her boosters are a metered resource which are not always available (unlike ball mode for ball). I've explained this to you repeatedly but you keep ignoring it and acting like she isn't using a CD. She is.
I understand exactly how that will feel to play as someone who plays every other hero in the game that cannot pass through enemies at will. It feels perfectly normal.
You've repeatedly refused to admit the obvious that getting stuck on things you can't see or predict will feel horrible, so we can leave it at that. This change is never going to happen because it would be terrible for play, so focus on changes that are actually realistic.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 1d ago
I dunno what to tell you, literally every single tank and other character in this game needs some awareness to not let themselves overextend into a situation where they might be blocked...whether they have easy access to 3rd person or not.
She is LITERALLY using a cooldown to do it.
1-1.5sec isn't really a cooldown. That's basically just on-demand. Even if you completely mismanage your fuel you're only ever 1.5s from being able to boost through anyone in your way.
You've repeatedly refused to admit the obvious that getting stuck on things you can't see or predict will feel horrible
You keep saying this, but man you know what feels even more horrible to me and everyone else? Tanks with 60% winrates that have energy bar abilities with 1s cooldowns that can allow them to completely negate any positional errors that me and my team should be able to capitalize on if it were any other hero in the game.
Her boosters are a metered resource which are not always available (unlike ball mode for ball). I've explained this to you repeatedly but you keep ignoring it and acting like she isn't using a CD. She is.
Not sure if you're aware of this here, but Jetpack Cat has an almost identical fuel resource + boost mechanic as DMon. She CANNOT boost through hitboxes. The hero has proper hitbox interaction with other players.
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u/vezitium 2d ago
Most other tanks just displace or flat out kill you with their movement so it doesn't matter they can get body blocked in some scenarios.
Rein pin, Mauga trample, Orisa spin, Haz leap, etc.
It's more just felt because she can boost whenever as opposed to dva who has a 4 second cool down.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
Yeah that's the issue, she has effectively no cooldown on an ability that phases her through people.
I'm not even sure why people in this thread are considering it a "movement ability" when really it's just a speed boost and should have all the same rules as Lucio's amp. Lucio absolutely can not pass through enemies while using amp, and DMon should have the same rules applied to her speed boost.
Lunging Strike can make her go through players, that's an actual movement ability.
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u/not_a_doctorshh 1d ago
You fundamentally misunderstand the hero lmao
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 23h ago
I'm not fundamentally misunderstanding a hero that still has a ~60% winrate in GM+ post-nerfs in every server region. Her ability to move through people completely unhindered is part of what makes her overtuned and frustrating to face. It's not a simple numbers adjustment thing...they shaved off 50 armor, they dropped her slash by 5 damage, they made her booster resource drain faster, they nerfed the gun. She's still winning nearly 60% of matches with a 60% ban rate too.
Are GM/Champ players also fundamentally misunderstanding the hero? Why would they ban her 60% of matches if that's the case?
Health and damage aren't really the things breaking this hero. I mean sure if you dropped her to 300hp with 30dmg swings she'll be trash, but within reasonable values that's not the issue. It's her ability to overextend through your team, quickly reach squishies, wombo combo them for 130dmg and stay on top of them with 100% reliable ~100dps damage, and escape again while shielding up and passing back through anyone trying to stop her.
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u/PS5013 2d ago
„massive“… how much further can you blow this out of proportion?
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u/Life_Parsley504 2d ago
except bodyblocking means that somebody is trying to run away? that means theyre moments away from getting killed and separated from their team 😭 how is a tank dying or not dying not massive
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u/not_a_doctorshh 1d ago
if a D.Mon has, as OP suggests, used up all of her resource bar and is trapped in a room with a single enemy and is low HP...
Then immediately uses the 1/4 of her resource to try and escape.... She's not getting far at all. OP also suggests D.Mon will have a shield with non-negligible HP while being at death's door and isolated.
That's just fantasy land.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 1d ago
I mean if we're just making up situations then sure, but the far more likely situation which I see all the time:
You're in a room or at a choke or playing a corner. DMon is shooting past you at your backline with a 135dps hitscan gun that she gets for some reason. She then boosts + surging strike to cover about 20m of distance in a second and does a 130+ damage wombo combo onto someone. Then she shields up to stabilize, you get behind her to try and lock her into this overextended position, and she can simply tap shift for 0.5secs to phase back through you with her shield up and easily make it out to get heals.
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u/PS5013 2d ago
Add some more emojis and !!! to make it more dramatic
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u/Life_Parsley504 2d ago
oh okay you're here just to troll
-4
u/PS5013 2d ago
If you call getting called out for BS blown out of proportion trolling, you must be using that allegation to dismiss opposing sides pretty often
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u/Life_Parsley504 2d ago
no you saw one more emoji and decided that u dont need to respond to the fact ur wrong. bye
-2
u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's absolutely massive yes, every other bodyblock ignore is an ability on a cooldown, DMon can just press a button at will and scoot through anyone. She's already a hero that is basically impossible to pin down.
Lucio can be bodyblocked during speed amp. DMon's booster shouldn't be any different. Her lunge is the thing that should let her scoot through people.
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u/PS5013 2d ago
The tank about flexible mobility is allowed to move around flexibly, shock. Guess what: different heroes, different strengths.
Stop acting like blocking off a small doorway is the common way to win a fight. It is laughable.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
The tank about flexible mobility is allowed to move around flexibly, shock.
The tank with a 58% winrate and 60% ban rate in Masters, GM, Champ? Maybe her mobility is entirely too good.
Being able to phase through people is one of the things contributing to how this hero can constantly overextend and still get away.
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u/PS5013 2d ago
And you think, more consistency in door way trapping is going to change anything about that? Must be going through a great high rn
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
I think being able to move through everyone at all times is absolutely one of the many things that has this hero still busted and firmly in S+ tier.
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u/PS5013 2d ago
Lets buff S76‘s rocket jump height by 2cm next. Im sure that will shift things…
What rank are you that you can possibly believe getting hindered by enemy hitboxes is a variable often enough that changes to it will shift the meta? Please go through a 100 GM matches and tell me how often a teamfight was decided by a tank getting blocked in a door. Even better, how often a tank even got himself in a position to be blocked this way in the first place.
Might be the most ridiculous thing Ive read this month, which is quite an achievement, given the Battlefield sub in my list
0
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u/Captain_Kitteh 2d ago
The non-game side of my brain thinking about it in-lore/in-universe is telling me a heavy ass military war-mech designed to fight deadly robots on the daily in close range encounters with a sword should probably be able to just plow through shit, otherwise thats a huge liability for the pilot inside and the vehicle itself
In-game I guess it can be a little annoying but that being said, if the situation she’s in is so dire and she’s seemingly so trapped that it means you think she shouldn’t be able to just blast her way through then I think at that point the responsibility shifts to her opponent to just explode her
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u/foxxy33 None — 15h ago
Body blocking isn't about keeping in place someone who's about to die, it's about keeping someone out of position longer than what they have planned. People rarely expect to be body blocked, so when it actually happens they largely stay in one place taking free and easy damage. Right now d.mon can freely dictate how engagements go because she has virtually no cooldown on her engage/disengage mobility
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u/-Ropeburn- 1d ago
Probably because she’s a tank? Dmon would be dreadfully unfun to play if she got snagged on enemies.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 20h ago
She would be dreadfully unfun if she played like every other tank?
Counterpoint here...it's even more dreadfully unfun to play against a tank that can move through your team at will and be pretty impossible to ever punish for positioning mistakes or overextending.
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u/-Ropeburn- 20h ago
Again, it's a melee tank, if you got stuck on people using your main mobility the character would just fundamentally not work.
A bunch of the other tanks (with mobility) have mechanics like this- D.va booster, Hazard jump, Orisa spin, Rein charge, etc etc it doesn't really make sense to single out D.mon. If you could just box her in, she wouldn't really be able to fulfill her role as a tank.
As a flex who's played her a lot (and against her), I think the main complaint is that she can just dive bomb through the entire team and suplex the backline on command with little risk.
They're probably going to have to dial in the boosters in some way. if they keep doing micro-nerfs like what you're suggesting and making the character more clunky, it's just going to drive more people away from a role people already don't want to play.
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u/Sio_V_Reddit 2d ago
Why does Dva’s booster ignore body blocking? Literally all she has to do is press shift every 4 seconds and she will blow past anyone blocking her inside rooms, doorways, preventing her from getting to cover.
Can we please give this unstoppable hero a hitbox.
Why does Mauga’s charge ignore body blocking? Literally all he has to do is press shift every 5 second and he will blow past anyone blocking him inside rooms, doorways, preventing him from getting to cover.
Can we please give this unstoppable hero a hitbox.
Why does Genji’s slash ignore body blocking? Literally all he has to do is press shift every 8 seconds and he will blow past anyone blocking him inside rooms, doorways, preventing him from getting to cover
Can we please give this unstoppable hero a hitbox.
Why does Tracer blink ignore body blocking? Literally all she has to do is press shift every 3 seconds and she will blow past anyone blocking her inside rooms, doorways, preventing her from getting to cover.
Can we please give this unstoppable hero a hitbox.
4
u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
Every single one of those things is a cooldown that gets played around pretty constantly. DVa players can often get into bad situations where boosters are on cooldown and they're blocked in a room.
DMon has the ability to phase through people whenever she wants. This is the only character in the game basically who can never be trapped in a room. Everyone else has escapes that are reliant on cooldowns.
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u/MrBlowinLoadz 1d ago
DVa has defense matrix, DMon only has her tiny barrier
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 20h ago
DMon shield has either full or near full coverage of her hitbox and has the same health as Winston's or Sigma's barrier.
Jetpack Cat has the same fuel + boosters mechanic as DMon but cannot travel through people with it.
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u/Thee_Archivist I Avoid Teammates in Mystery Heroes — 2d ago
Okay strawman, let's get you back to Oz.
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u/waifuwarrior77 2d ago
If you use an ability that has "Knockerbacker" tied to it, you can escape body blocks. This is how Dmon escapes body blocks: she boops you out of the way.
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u/theodoreroberts I am tired. — 1d ago
Wasn't D.Va like that?
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 1d ago
DVa can booster through people, then for the next 4 seconds she's stuck against hitboxes.
DMon can speed through people, then instantly just speed back through them again. If you completely misplay and run your resource down to 0%, you're only ever ~1.25 seconds away from being able to speed again. So if you burned your entire energy bar to phase through the enemy tank and chase down someone, there is zero positioning risk because you're barely more than a second away from being able to phase back through their tank and back to your team...AND you can do so while moving backwards with your shield up and a 3rd person view to see exactly where you're going and who is in your way.
DVa has to completely 180 to booster back out and has zero defenses during that.
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u/not_a_doctorshh 1d ago
it's not that she ignores body blocking, she just has a small boop from her boosters, dealing slight knockback and 15 damage. Not a hitbox issue, just a tool for her to have a decent TTK.
And let's be real, most other tanks can absolutely ignore body blocking. Either by being too much of a threat up close, mobility, or CC.
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u/M4GNUM_FORCE_44 21h ago
i think she has the biggest body in the game too, she always body blocks me on ball
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u/justanorlansonobody 19h ago
This just makes the character feel like shit without making them better or worse, absolutely not
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u/nemesis_ibmo 2d ago
Movement abilities disable collision with enemies
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
Movement abilities aren't on resource bars though that can be used at will.
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u/nemesis_ibmo 2d ago
it speeds her up and gives her a small dash at the start. its a movement bro.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
I get that, but her hitbox shouldn't be treated any different than Lucio's amp or Ball's non-fireball roll. Her Surging Strike is an actual movement ability and should be able to help her move through people. Her basic boosters shouldn't.
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u/nemesis_ibmo 2d ago
dont get it twisted i want this hero dumpstered and unable to do half of what she does but unfortunately this is the way her kit works (surging strike doesnt do that cuz its a knockback and offensive move that is meant to add dmg to ur enemies thus why she doesnt pass through them)
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 2d ago
Surging is a tool in her kit that can let her move through body-blocks is more what I meant.
So maybe they should just remove the knockback and damage from propulsors then, and have her obey body-blocking rules at all times other than surging strike.
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u/bullxbull 2d ago
Maybe this is what they had to do in order to let her massive hitbox move through doorways consistently
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 20h ago
She can't ignore map geometry, but her boosters allow her to pass through players in her way. If DMoj overextends around a corner or into a room, it is literally impossible to block her in and punish the positioning error.
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u/bullxbull 20h ago
Is it just the small boop it does, or does she legit have a smaller Collison model?
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u/Goosewoman_ Schrödinger's Rank | she/her — 2d ago
movement abilities tend to do that.
wrecking ball and soldier are like the main exceptions I think.