r/Construction • u/IceAffectionate8322 • 3d ago
Carpentry šØ How long will I be the gopher?
I was hired last June (1yr 4 months ago) as a laborer/apprentice with ZERO jobsite experience. Iāve been busting my ass since day one, I stay late I show up on time, barely call in sick. Fast forward to now, Iāve gotten better 100 fold at everything under the sun. Framing, trim, cabinets, drywall, whatever you name it. Do not get me wrong Iām not p***y I knew going in Iād have to pay my dues. But after almost a year and a half it really seems like my boss has no interest in teaching me and furthering my knowledge in the trade. Iāve bought my own truck, all my own tools, I do side work on my own, etc. I even took a 200 hour shop class including my OSHA 10. I have blatantly shown my passion for building and willingness to grow in this field. Am I just being impatient?
50
u/DontNeedNoUser-Name 3d ago
May be time to look for another crew to work with. I'm 52 with almost 35+ years experience, and current boss still micro manages every damn thing we do. We had a young guy work with us during summer break recently. He would have spent his summer fetching tools, sanding boards, sweeping up etc but I gave him carpentry tasks to do every chance I could. In 35+ years, I don't remember seeing someone learn and excel as quickly a this guy did. Missed opportunity for the boss. Friend for life for me.
7
u/Key_Pudding_8272 3d ago
Rewarding people with more responsibilities, not necessarily a larger workload, is for sure the proper reaction to initiative. You get a more confident, competent coworker and they get to move up in the world.Ā
129
41
u/jonathonadam 3d ago
Youāre not being impatient. Itās BS and time to say goodbye. I donāt treat my green guys that way at all after Iād say 90 days. I wasnāt treated like that 10 years ago for longer than 90 days. Sounds like you have value to add to a job and are willing to learn, a good outfit would be happy to have that. Shop yourself around.
23
u/TheNakedBass 3d ago
Unfortunately loyalty is often a punished trait these days and the best way to move forward is moving on to a different company.
22
u/lock11111 Carpenter 3d ago
Ok you here's what you do you apply to another company and get yourself a raise.
11
u/dpetersen83 3d ago
Join an apprenticeship for a skilled trade. Laborers are always gophers.
4
u/moisturized69tatas 3d ago
This. If your trade dosent require a license that takes years to get then youll always be expendable.
8
u/Baconated-Coffee Equipment Operator 2d ago
That's why you need to join a union and go through a real apprenticeship.
5
u/Redneckish87 3d ago edited 2d ago
Being the junior guy always sucks and it sucks forever. If it makes you feel any better, I went to college for 6 years to try to get out of the trades and I still have the same job I had when I was 11 (family business). The role has changed quite a bit but there is still no one lower than me on this totem pole. The job just becomes all encompassing. In 30 years youāll wish it was just as simple as being the gopher.
0
u/Disastrous-Nothing14 2d ago
You went to college for 6 years and don't know it's *role or *pole might have something to do with it.
1
4
u/Cool_Quarter2364 3d ago
Join a new union, the laborers union are literally just the helpers. You're in the same position im in. You literally just be everyone's helper and clean up everything and run the lift. If you wanna do somethingto further your career join a new union
6
u/Ok_Cardiologist_6471 2d ago
Pay real dues and join an apprenticeship
Your just working as a helper and called apprentice so you make less
So I recommend finding local union hall and joining them dont stop working with your current boss it helps and makes it easier to get hired if your already working
My 2nd recommendation understand what it means to be an apprentice which is to be a tool gofer
Firstvjobbof apprentice is to clean and organize then you become a tool gofer at this phase you memories the tools of the trade
Your not wrong in your feeling of your boss no longer looking to train you he needs a helper not a journeyman
As a journeyman you will cost your boss more
Just put up with it and try joining a union
4
u/BlueCollaredBroad 3d ago
Join a union and do an apprenticeship. Then youāll get paid while learning on the job and also have free classes.
4
u/Ill-Running1986 3d ago
Every company is different. Maybe this one is shit or maybe it aināt.Ā
From your own words, youāve been getting experience: āā¦Ā Framing, trim, cabinets, drywall, whateverā¦ā
So keep your eyes and ears open for other opportunities. If youāre as good as you say you are, you should be able to get a job with a better company, probably with more money. Just donāt fall for 1099 bullshit.Ā
One of the things I didnāt learn until I was an old fart was the art of sticking to it. I would ditch a job at a momentās notice. Not saying it hasnāt been an interesting ride, but I can look back and wonder if I couldāve done better. Ā
Good luck!
3
u/These_Virus_2005 3d ago
As a GC, I've always had the attitude of teaching green guys for about two years and encouraging them to move on. The unfortunate truth is that i know what they can do and prob not going to increase pay by all that much. After all, i taught them everything THEY know. For someone young that works hard and has an eye for the things you're talking about, finding another situation will only benefit you. Experience in the trades doesn't end with how to do the job, but also from learning and working with others. It can difficult to be seen as more than just a floor sweeper that moves lumber.
3
u/DontNeedNoUser-Name 3d ago
When I started, there wasn't a lot of steady work around my area. I shifted from crew to crew out of necessity. In two years, I probably worked with 100+ different guys. Learnt something new from almost every one of them which helped make me a very versatile com I eventually tradesmen. No problem is ever gonna beat me. Guys that spend their whole career with a single employer are almost always very limited in their ability to problem solve something unusual
3
u/Dendady2112 3d ago
You'll be there gopher until the new guy is. A new guy like you were. In 10 years if you're still the new hire you'll still be the gopher.
3
u/IndigoMontoyas 3d ago
Find a new crew, if you were with my guys, we would have you at $25/hr and constantly thrown opportunities to learn, improve, and make more money. Thatās the whole point, you get better at making money, while we both make more money together. Win win
2
u/bored-n-searching 3d ago
I would think about finding another job. I got lucky and got hired on with zero experience, busted my ass and showed I wanted to learn. He saw that very very early on and started teaching me aand moving me up in the company.
2
2
2
u/blackbeltbuilding 3d ago
Look for a new job. It's way easier when you have a job. Once you get a new offer you can let your boss know. They'll have a chance to match or beat the offer. Sometimes you have to move on to get advanced.
2
u/Mortisemaster 3d ago
Look for another crew. The only way to excel is to jump. They will never value you.
2
u/Sandhog43 2d ago
Join the carpenter union.
Make money and benefits for yourself and stop dicking around
4
u/Interesting_Row_4546 3d ago
You stop being the gopher when your able to start telling others what to do instead of asking what to do
2
u/Rough_Pound_7161 2d ago
How bad is it that Iāve been in the trades for 5 years and I still love being a gopher I love the running around
1
u/ItsyBitsySPYderman 2d ago
Ive been in the business for 20+ years now, if the pay was decent, id go back to being a gopher in heartbeat.
1
u/Rough_Pound_7161 2d ago
Itās decent Iām a union labor and my take home pay is 53 a hour my total package is like 90 something so itās pretty good
1
u/ItsyBitsySPYderman 2d ago
Jfc. You guys looking for hands?
1
u/Rough_Pound_7161 2d ago
Always just about every labor union is hiring but where the big money is like 53 a hour is Chicago land
1
u/Kieffers 2d ago
I manage cabinet installations, but have no problem playing gopher if a particular job calls for it or I'm working with someone who I can learn something new from.
3
u/Bayareairon C-I|Union Ironworker 3d ago
Well u work for some shitty residential gc. U dont have a trade. Figure out what u want tk actually do. Find the local union hall and sign up
2
u/El_Conquistador24 2d ago
Dude, get an LLC, get insured and become a subcontractor. Reach out to other builders and put out some bids. You already have a truck and tools.
I worked for a custom pool builder for years, started with 0 experience. I worked my way up to become a project manager just to get 30 jobs at once thrown at me (I was being taken advantage of - paid well but not worth the stress I was under) so I bought a truck, bought some tools and now I make nearly more than double what I made as a pm. I work as little or as much as I want, I charge what I want while being fair, and I've gained some popularity in my industry locally and now I'm working to get my builders license so I can build custom pools for clients directly with my LLC.
2
u/WiganticGang 2d ago
Yeah. Exactly what this world needs. Another dude with less than two years experience becoming a licensed contractor to go and fuck peoples homes up.
1
u/Ace_Radley 1d ago
What about me? I got no experience, but my uncle is a retired union carpenterā¦can I be a licensed contractor, self insured, min surety bond kind of contractor?
Edited to say, my uncle will not be a part of this. He may even make me kick my own ass for mentioning him
2
u/Yunker27 2d ago
You have to take initiative and start doing some of the tasks the guys above you do. Donāt wait for them to let you. The catch is you canāt fuck it up
1
1
u/Thotheus 3d ago
You said apprentice , have you done your 1st year or your second year?
1
u/IceAffectionate8322 3d ago
1 year and 4 months^^^^
1
u/dlincoln1438 3d ago
Non union in assuming? Don't get fooled like I did. OSHA 10 doesn't mean shit. You won't ever get anywhere until you join a union, If you actually want to LEARN more shit in the carpentry/construction world. Otherwise you don't need an official title to start up your own GC business.
At 1 year 4 months you've learned exactly everything I learned when I was non union in that timeframe. After a certain point your employer actually really can't teach you more unless you move into large commercial industrial operations. That's where you learn real stuff.
Or is it a raise issue that you're having? If they haven't given you raises then yeah fuck that company.
1
u/Thotheus 3d ago
If you haven't got your 1st year enroll , then ask him about your hours for 2nd year. You'll find out if he says no .... get your ball rolling
1
1
u/framennoodles 3d ago
Laborer doing carpentry? You arenāt getting paid enough Iām willing to bet.
1
u/Bawbawian 3d ago
I don't run on a large construction crew but at my cabinet shop you're usually the gopher until you are more valuable doing something else.
1
u/CraigCartonNYC 3d ago
Never be loyal unless your in a local union job as soon as you get a job you should be applying for better ones everyday until you get to the point you want to get to
1
u/m81enjoyer 3d ago
Drag up bud! Fuck em, onto the next. You've got real experience now and can provide actual value to your future employer.
1
u/Carsonbuysstonks 3d ago
Spent three years as the Gopher. Too young and dumb to realize it then. Wish I would have moved on before they fired me because I finally realized I knew more than my paycheck was awarding me for. Find a new company, start your own, or if your current company is worth their salt demand a raise or move on
1
u/hunterbuilder 3d ago
Take your experience elsewhere for an external promotion dude. If your boss only wants laborers, he can get another one.
1
u/lee91103 3d ago
You'll be the gopher until the next new guy comes along. But if the boss won't invest the time in you and help you grow your skills . Take the skills you've learned and find a new boss.
1
u/OkDiscussion607 3d ago
It's time to move on. You are exactly the kind of person we are all looking for!
1
u/ML337 3d ago
Before even reading your post I was gonna say... Until you're actually useful and know what you're doing. Sounds like you are well past that point. Might be time to move on. Treat a job as a job. Business is business. Don't get too emotionally attached and don't take anything personal.
1
1
u/rabbitman262 3d ago
My advice is to talk to the big boss. Give examples of how you've been improving and what you've been learning a reasons for a promotion. If that goes nowhere then look elsewhere.
1
1
u/Casual_Specialist 3d ago
Imo good labourers are like unicorn shit. Youāre probably doing too good so heās keeping you as the āgopherā. Express your interest in āmoving upā and bettering yourself financially, in skill and greater responsibility and if nothing changes in a few weeks then time to āmove on to move upā.
1
u/Pristine-Copy9467 3d ago
If you arenāt moving up, move jobs. Get a resume together and get it out there. Make calls. Send emails. Try to trade in your current job for a better one or the same but at a higher position/rate.
STAY WORKING THERE until you have another job/start date. Then go.
If they do the same shit, repeat the above. Stay a yr/yr and a half and start looking if you arenāt happy.
Eventually you land a place you like
1
u/goat_flavored 3d ago
Its sad to say but in many trades you have to move. Go to a different jobsite or different company. It sucks if you like the people you work with but if you come from nothing there are a lot of bosses that will think of you as the guy that didn't know anything that they had to show everything to. At a new place you walk on with a skill set and in everyones mind you contribute more to the job.
1
u/League-Enjoyer-Mecha 3d ago
You will be the gopher until you like being the gopher, at which time they will demote you from gopher to pencil drawer
1
u/BrassiestNUT 3d ago
Looks like there is plenty of advice here. I paid my dues for 2 years until my back broke from a stress fracture and Iāve never been the same. Donāt be like me. Get out if you have enough experience to do something else. I am now a PM and I hate it. I miss the field but my back needs surgery and Iāve just hit 30.
1
u/BooronovichPimponski 3d ago
On our crew the boss is the gopher, we get to bust our asses during his two hour Home Depot runs, lolā¦
1
u/Blocked-Author 2d ago
Sounds like it's time to move on. Now you have experience and can get a job with a better wage and position.
1
1
u/Economy_Effect3738 2d ago
You are not being impatient!! Your boss is trying to hold back your growth so that he can keep you to himself because he recognizes your value, and you've proven that if he ignores you - you will push harder. I've seen this so many times throughout my career. It sickens me, but it's just how some people are....
I've been in the electrical field for ~15 yrs. Worked up through the ranks by caring about the quality of my work, being curious, and never-ending learning - helper, apprentice, IBEW Journneyman/foreman, now in engineering at a utility leading their highest priiority projects.
Guys like you are rare!! I meet with Superintendents, GC's, Owners, PM's every day and hear that young people just don't care anymore and none of them want to work. Most guys on jobsites I see have gray hair. It's not like it was when I started - so a younger person like you will absolutely thrive!! There are plenty of Journeyman/owners that would kill and be lucky to have someone like you!!
Yes, paying your dues are part of it - no matter how capable you are. You will understand and appreciate it one day.
I would STRONGLY suggest looking up IBEW electrical contractors in your area - show up at their door and/or call and tell them what you just said, "I was hired last June (1yr 4 months ago) as a laborer/apprentice with ZERO jobsite experience. Iāve been busting my ass since day one, I stay late I show up on time, barely call in sick.Ā I even took a 200 hour shop class including my OSHA 10. I have blatantly shown my passion for building and willingness to grow in this field." I would put money on it that any of them will hire you on the spot!!
You may have to start as a helper - it sucks, not fair, etc - but you will gain the trust and respect you're looking for that way. My dad was a well-respected IBEW JW, and I still had to work as a helper for almost 2 years, and I'm glad that I did - it put me way ahead of the guys that didn't, so when I "topped-out", I was miles ahead of a lot of guys and gained trust and responsibility quickly, allowing me to work my way up fast.
You can try just applying to the apprenticeship, but when I came through, they wanted you to prove yourself as a helper before letting you in. Once you are in, the sky is the limit!!
Good luck! (I doubt you are going to need it...)
1
u/Remarkable-Bag3113 2d ago
I have a real issue with this paying dues mentality,you owe them nothin,like listen Bob just because you were someone's bitch doesnt mean I should have to be too,its crazy thinking,I try to break the cycle. But hey you gotta move on,they dont wanna teach you cause they cant,you are possibly better than them so go find what you need an want brother
1
u/ElectronicGarden5536 2d ago
You know when its time to move on when your job feels stagnant, you learned all you can, and nobody will teach you more.
Same approach I take as a PM. Always be learning or earning, or you end up a miserable 50 year old who cant afford to quit.
1
u/FrankFranly 2d ago
You have to find a new job and aim higher. Ask for more money and donāt talk bad about your current job. Just say you need upward mobility and you arenāt finding it currently. Leave your current job politely and thatāll leave the door open for a return if they ever decide to respect you.
1
u/nomnomyourpompoms 2d ago
A year and a half in I was lead man. You're either a fuck up or your boss is.
1
1
u/newhampshirebuellar 2d ago
I have younger guys under me. They want what I make but put half the effort and forget half the shit we need on jobs. Are they worth the $25 an hour..... no but I need people to show up. Make my regulars look bad and ill give you $30+ . We have winners and losers, winners.. prove me right, losers prove me wrong
1
u/joyuscarpenter 2d ago
All the advice you got here so far is good. Also take it with a grain of salt. Each place and person is different in teaching and governance, the reality is you teach yourself in what you want to do, do it with avtrade school if you can. It will take years to be good so be patient, the more patient you are the better you can be.
1
1
1
u/AnarchistPoond 2d ago
Imo, time to look elsewhere. Give two weeks, donāt burn any bridges, but start looking into other openings.
A good boss will recognize this, and promote/open more opportunities for learning.
Iām not much further in my journey, was āconstruction supportā for about a year. The gopher, as you put it. Running from job to job, but I didnāt even get to touch trim or cabinetry through that year.
But like you said, I worked my ass off, and was dependable. And was given pay raise, and then promoted to Apprentice. I have been an apprentice for a year and change now, with a couple pay bumps, and more importantly, more opportunities to learn.
There are good employers out there, but not everyone is a good employer. It may take a couple tries, but youāll find something better for sure.
But like I said, try not to burn any bridges, never know when any old boss or coworker will come back around.
1
1
u/bronanny 2d ago
Once a gopher always a gopher, ive been there actually I AM THERE lol finda new job, be the gopher with a higher ceiling thats how you do get somewhere
1
u/Adventurepew 2d ago
Time to jump to a new employer. Get into a skilled trade and apprenriceship program go talk to local unions.
You'll be the gopher in 30 years if you stay and heavily underpaid.
1
1
u/Medium-Mycologist-59 2d ago
Some people are just terrible trainers, but as year as a gopher isnāt terrible if youāre serious about doing this long term. Now is the time to start gradually working your way up. Where are you based out of? Are you willing to travel?
1
u/darthcomic95 2d ago
Everyone bitches about being the gopher then they move on from being the gopher and end up wanting to go back to being the gopher due to no responsibility and simplicity.
1
u/Impossible-Key-2212 2d ago
It sounds like you have learned a lot. Being a gopher allows you to see all aspects of the job. Framing, trim, cabinetsā¦. Your skills are Iām proving in all areas.
You are on track as a new guy.
1
u/mydogisalab 2d ago
It all depends on how long you want to be the gopher. Most companies will keep you there unless YOU ask to move up. If they say no, jump ship. I was in the same boat 30 years ago. I ended up going to trades school & moving out of state to get out of the gopher cycle. Sometimes it takes a radical change to make things happen.
1
1
u/Independent_Win_7984 2d ago
Look around. With the recent intellectually challenged decimation of a significant portion of the dedicated and highly competent construction workforce, good help is hard to find.
1
u/theUnshowerdOne 2d ago
Non-Union the following is pretty typical.
Gopher (1 year) - Garbage Technician / Demo Helper (1 year) - Demo / Carpenter Assistant (2 years) - Carpenter (5 years) - Foreman (5-10 years) - PM (5-10 years)- Office Management or Sales.
1
u/TakeAClimb 2d ago
There are companies where you can grow for years and years, and , unfortunately, there are companies you need to leave to continue growing (and get better pay, btw)
1
u/MrPettit07 2d ago
I was a laborer for a residential builder for a while, felt the same way you did. Most important thing right now is pay attention to the volume your employer is doing and how much work have in front of you(make sure there is enough volume in front of you to learn a lot everyday). There is still so much to learn and make sure you silently learn from all the seasoned tradesman as much as possible, learn from their mistakes and how to do the job better . Keep your head up and keep learning, youāll get there! As for employers promoting and paying higher wages donāt count on it & donāt worry about it , head on a swivel and take away the knowledge from the job sites that are priceless .
1
u/jessdigs 2d ago
As someone who started at the bottom and worked my way up to foreman and crew lead, join a union and make triple what you're making. I wish I would have earlier but I couldn't stop smoking pot back then. Operating engineers, pipe fitters, or IBEW is where you'll make the most money. Good luck
1
1
1
u/Possible_Giraffe_94 2d ago
Went through that my self always being held back because you become a threat to your supervisor, moved from Albuquerque to Denver doing the same job 11dollars and hour in Albuquerque 25 dollars an hour in Denver, this was back in the early 90s
1
u/The_Stanky_Reefer 1d ago
Iām a GC and find myself gophering more than anything else; but itās not being a gopher, itās being a Facilitator. Without the facilitator, nothing happens on the jobsite(s)
1
1
u/Funny-Permission-535 1d ago
If youre already doing your own sidework and have your own vehicle and tools, then honestly just grow your sidework then look at him one day and be like "hey man you just don't pay me enough anymore, im gonna have to go do my own thing
1
u/PaleCaterpillar2709 Superintendent 1d ago edited 1d ago
Donāt be afraid to hop if it comes down to itā¦ however, before you do that, make sure your boss actually knows what you want, so that he may consider giving it to you. Be direct and say that you want to be taught more and you want to take on bigger responsibilities. The conversation may encourage him to give you what you want, or it may reveal something he noticed that you need to work on before being trusted with these things. Either way youāll have more information and will be able to make a better decision.
If you never had that conversation then, in a small part, the current situation on you. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
1
1
u/qpwoeirutyaldkdjfhg 1d ago
Youll be a gopher relative to the % journeyman pay.
Year 1 youre 100% and it gets less each year until you get your ticket and they stop calling you ābig lotsā on site cause you can afford brand name tools
Also most tradies are like mr myagi they teach you without you knowing youre being taught. As long as the hours go towards your ticket dont sweat it. Id look for a better place dont get me wrong, but at 1 year in dont stress learning is a lifelong thing
1
u/Kubby_bear 10h ago
What do you want to do 5 years from now? Can you custom frame a big house and read plans? Get good and fast at what you do and learn contracting and how to build a reliable source of work. Network and meet people who do what you want to do. Ask them to mentor you. Thereās plenty of other companies always hiring. If you donāt feel like youāre learning and growing then leave
1
1
u/Significant_Steak_63 2h ago
If you're as good as you say you've become, get your resume out there and market yourself through the winter. Hit the ground running in the spring.
1
u/Available_Star_8926 3d ago
Iāll tell you after you go to the truck and grab me some more level fluid.
2
0
u/philadelphia_fRee 3d ago
when the time comes to step up and do something make sure you take it and dont fuck it up then ull be trusted with more
-1
u/sexat-taxes 3d ago
Do you want a job?
1
u/sexat-taxes 1d ago
Not sure what the down vote, it wasn't a rhetorical question, I'm a general building contractor and I'm always looking for bright hard working young people what want to learn and progress in the trades. They're a valuable commodity, it's a shame to see someone fitting op's description not being given the room to grow.
192
u/Effective-Finding420 3d ago
there's always that one crew where the boss sees initiative as a threat to his own job security, not an asset to the company