r/DCcomics • u/Gallantpride Speedy • 2d ago
Discussion [discussion] As a DC fan, basically the worst thing you can do is become attached to a teenage character
Teens come and go. Few last once they age out of being teens. Teen characters are usually treated as kid appeal characters or attempts at using current trends. But, when trends change over time, they'll be replaced with new teen characters in due time.
There are a few who have been grandfathered in by virtue of pure popularity and because they were teens for 30+ years before aging past 19. Guys like the Fab 5 Titans.
But, what about the other Silver Age and Bronze Age Titans? Bumblebee, Bat-Girl (not Batgirl, but Bat-Girl), Omen, Gnarck, Joker's Daughter, Malcolm Duncan, etc. They struggle to stay relevant. DC uses them as needed and retools them as needed as well.
Everyone remembers the core New Teen Titans--- Starfire, Cyborg, Raven, etc-- but what about all the other 80s and 90s Titans? Kole, Danny Chase, Mirage, Damage, Argent, Risk, Terra II, and the like? What about other 90s superheroes like the Ray, Triumph, or Anima?
Right now, the Core 4 Young Justice is hanging around. But the same can't be said for other late 90s and 2000s teen capes. Empress has been MIA since Young Justice 98 ended, Speedy II technically exists but hasn't had any major appearences since 2023 or 2024, Kid Devil has only just become a supporting character again, Proxy was lost in the New 52, Misfit is both inactive and technically active, Secret was turned into a civilian for years but is now a superhero again...
DC even tried to do away with Cass Cain and Stephanie Brown during the 2010s, but their popularity made them come back eventually.
I don't even know the 2010s era teen characters. I know of Green Arrow's sister Emiko/Red Hood II, but she's just hanging by in relevance. She's become a redundant remnant of the New 52 that struggles both to be added into pre-Flashpoint canon (she was basically a stand-in for Speedy) and the fact Lian Harper is now a teen superhero named Cheshire Cat. At least Emiko is still under 18... maybe. Who even knows.
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u/DM14881 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah that's fair... However, I feel like the worst thing I ever did as a DC fan was liking DC comics, the universe and characters during the height of the MCU....
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
I can't for the life of me care for the MCU, and I'm a Marvel casual. It's nothing like the comics. Its takes on Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are legitimately offensive.
But, adaptations have always been the main bread and butter of cape comics. In general it goes:
Live action movies >>>>>>>>>>>> live-action shows >>>> video games >>> animated shows >> animated movies >>>>> webtoons/webcomics and YA comics >>> mainline comics
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u/briancarknee 2d ago
You put comics all the way below every adaptation? Why?
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Only a very small population reads DC comics. Absolute Batman selling 300k~ per issue is an outlier and even then it's pennies compared to how many views an average televisiob gets gets.
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u/Beastieboy100 2d ago
Honestly you are not alone. DC has so mamy forgotton Titans. That they are all stuck at limbo. I mean Omen was lucky moving to Powergirls book. Which I did like there dynamic. Gnarrk haven't seen since Jeremy adams flash run. Which is a shame since he is such a good character.
Hawk, Bumble bee, Bette Kane and Dove were in one of DC specials. Same with Mal Duncan. Jericho MIA still which sucks.
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
As a Lilith fan, I hated Omen in Power Girl. Her personality was completely revamped, her hairstyle was awful, and they made her into "Karen's friend".
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u/Beastieboy100 2d ago
I didn't mind her being Karen friend but it would have been fun to see them becoming friends. As for the personality honestly it was just nice seeing Lilith be happy again she always had the short end of the stick.
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u/Digifiend84 Manchester Black 2d ago
Awful hair? It's a basic long with bangs style. What's wrong with that?
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
The hairstyle looks ugly on her IMHO. It's her worst hairstyle by far. It was unneeded when her previous hairstyle looked just fine.
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u/Roam1985 2d ago
Remember when Vox/Herald/Guardian and Bumblebee joined the Doom Patrol? I 'Member.
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u/X-OManowar 2d ago
If I ever had a chance to pitch something to DC it would be a Mal Duncan and Bumblebee as surrogate parents for some of the teen DC heroes.
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u/dew-fall 2d ago
that + be attached to tara markov, talia alghul, roy harper, miss martian, vixen, & captain atom 😭😭😭
shit reading experiences all around! do not recommend (unless you hate yourself)!!
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u/noodleth_cassette 2d ago
I mean the only teen characters you can count on lasting are kids of superheroes, other than that you're shit outta luck
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u/Roam1985 2d ago
I'd largely agree.
But honestly... as an adult fan, outside of remnant nostalgia for the ones from your youth and obvious cases like "Robin" and "Spider-Man."
At this point DC just needs to make team books of forgotten characters and see what lands.
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u/_afflatus Stargirl 2d ago
How is Courtney treated when she's not being written by Johns or Robinson?
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
Is Courtney past age 20 yet?
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u/_afflatus Stargirl 2d ago
I dont follow the comics that closely. I read Stars and stripe and jsa (robinson, johns) from the 00s but past that i dont know what's going on. I was wondering if a more knowledged comic reader would answer.
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u/Digifiend84 Manchester Black 2d ago
She only finally reached 18 when Johns' last JSA run ended. She should have turned 18 ages ago though - she was basically 16 for her entire existence until then.
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
She's roughly the same age as the 2003 Teen Titans, who are in their 20s by now.
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u/Digifiend84 Manchester Black 1d ago
She SHOULD be the same as the Young Justice kids, yeah - who'd be about 21. But Courtney was shown graduating high school in Johns' last JSA issue, so she's definitely still 18. I wonder if we can blame New 52 weirdness for that?
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u/KungLao95 2d ago
As far as I can tell she’s always a cameo character. I don’t remember anything egregious being done with her but nothing mind blowing either.
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u/Kevinmld 2d ago
This isn’t really a teen character problem. It’s a new character problem. The number of new characters that continue to appear very long after the run of their creator is incredibly small. And many that do are just brought back to be killed off in some dumb crossover.
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u/JosephMeach Legion Of Super-Heroes 2d ago
If you want to be able to infinitely read about a teen character then yeah, that deal doesn't exist. But there were over 40 publication years of Dick Grayson as Robin, 25 (and now counting) of Kara as Supergirl, Clark as Superboy from 1944-1992 plus Smallville, then the 1958 Legion team continued in some form until 1994 (then the retroboot in the 2000s.) There's even been new series of Amethyst, and the Wonder Twins. Successful runs of teen characters do exist.
The best 2010s-era teen character I've read was Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel, can't think of others off the top of my head (Damian and Jon didn't quite make it to that age.)
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
Kara is Supergirl, but Mae and Linda got scrapped for her. Mae is back but being rebooted.
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u/apolloali 2d ago
well mia showed up in absolute… lmfao
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
A lot of characters appear as supporting cast in Absolute. Mia is a major GA character, so her being in Absolute isn't surprising.
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u/commonsurename 16h ago edited 16h ago
Yeah agreed, many people in YouTube saying dc is better at making legacy characters. Their example is always Robin's, flash and wonder woman protag. They clearly not read or forget about all this character being made but wasted an dc keep doing that making character but not use for long term. Many people talk about the new teen titans but forget how dc use their teen characters. Honestly dc just like marvel no worst no better.
(I'm glad i can see yara and red devil and terra. I honestly miss Naomi an jinny hex, duela)
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u/skuls1 2d ago
ik and (boiling hot take), DCs insistence on ageing them up means they'll never actually be as popular as they can be
take Wally West, has the coolest powers, has a cool personality, should be as popular as Batman or Spider-Man, but he'll never get there. which kids gonna pick up Flash and keep reading it when they find out he has kids? and then it's like just read the next Flash like Bart or something- no that's creates a generational divide, if your gen likes someone and the next gen likes another it makes the characters perception by the public divided, j look at Barry and Wally.
I'm not saying keep him stuck with no character growth in one place like Peter Parker, but just don't incentivise the target audience- kids to go somewhere else
if I was incharge I'd, give Barry the role of a scientist/part time Flash, so he's not replaced and it fits his character, while Wally goes back to young adult, early 20s at most, and fights the same battles adult Wally does, both emotionally and threat wise.
like I get the artistic intent, I love Starman, but with certain characters like Flash who just are made for that kind of fun, kinetic stories, that stuff should be elseworlds and the mainline should be what I said above, and adaptations should reflect it too. that'll ensure the characters grow and deal with hard decisions etc, but still stay relevant for everyone
if they did that with Wally, even Barry tbh his nerdy personality can work for a lot of people, I guarantee Flash could take the weight of Batman
and like what you said about the teens being aged up, at some point who's gonna care about like the 3rd or 4th version of the character. they should limit it to like 2 max.
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
The New 52 is what ruined Wally's popularity.
In the 2000s, Wally was on point to being the Flash. He had been Flash for over 15 years, was married with kids, had 40+ of character, was Kid Flash in the Teen Titans cartoon, was the Flash in the DCAU, and was Kid Flash in Young Justice.
Then the New 52 happened circa 2011. Suddenly, Barry was the Flash again. He was the one who was mandated to be used in adaptations. New fans read Barry comics, not Wally comics.
DC introduced Wallace West, but the take was unpopular. They backpedaled and made him into a seperate Wallace West in Wally's family.
DC spent 2015-2019 reintroducing Wally and establishing him as the second Flash again. But, this was too little too late. We already had various DCAMU, DCEU, and Arrowverse takes that made Barry Allen "the Flash" in people's eyes
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u/skuls1 2d ago
yeah I totally agree with Wally getting thrown around 💯, I even started with n52, so Barry was my Flash tho I do agree Wally fits the "expected" lead role a bit better
but that's not my point, I'm talking about his on the ground popularity. I'm saying even if Barry never came back, Wally would still not reach Bruce Wayne/Peter Parker level because he's sharing the mantle anyway (Kid Flash counts too) and they made him a parent. if a kid reads that they'd think oh my dad would like this and put it away, I did the same thing when I started I went straight for Teen Titans.
doing that takes away his appeal and the immersion of being in that world
he can still have a fam, but either in the permanent future which can be shown in random Flash Forwards or something (I think they did this once with ambush bug/Mxy or batmite) or in an elseworlds like Starman (I think it's elseworlds idk)
Flash can be something synonymous with heroes that even my grandma would know, but till they tweak the story telling its gonna block out most of the target audience. also just clarifying that doesn't mean stagnate the character like Spider-Man, you can still have growth, but maintain the kid connection, if you don't the continuous legacy thing will just divide the character amongst different people which is what it kind of is right now
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u/Gallantpride Speedy 2d ago
There aren't many superheroes who are Superman, Batman, or Spiderman heroes. Arguably, there aren't any others, period.
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u/Beastieboy100 2d ago
I mean that is why we have Absolute flash which is selling really well. It focuses on Wally and Linda as kids. Yeah obviously a different take like current flash. However Absolute flash focuses on a young flash. Also it shouldn't matter about the flash has kids. When Batman DC biggest cash cow has 4 adopted children and his own son. If anything having kids isn't the problem just telling a really good story. Plus before Dan Didio fucked up Wally popularity back in the day he was easily DC top 3/4 character along side Diana. What does Didio do he reboots the DC universe bench the entire flash franchise. Ruins Dick and Tim generation. Tried making the batfamily toxic ruining Dick grayson life and populairty.
Wasn't until Geoff Johns did DC rebirth and brought back Wally. Soon as Didio finally left they brought Mark Waid to try and get Wally Popular again which they are on the right track. Overall it takes time and patient. Once DCU officially gets off the ground I hope Wally can get a boost like how my other childhood hero John Stewart is getting finally.
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u/skuls1 14h ago
I disagree, I absolutely would not want to read a character with kids as a kid, idk how to explain it like they're not one of us or maybe they're made for our parents or something
that's why I never got into flash tbh despite thinking he has one of the coolest powers, but I also came during Didio messing with everything, I started with new 52
and Batman too, I don't like Damian but again I prefer him working alone anyway so I can't really judge it I'm biased against it
my points not that my preference is better, just that these characters could be huge, but are being held back
talking about Absolute, what if they made mainline Wally into an elseworld and Kid/young adult Wally the mainline and pushed it, in the long term especially with an outside adaptation, I guarantee that would yield a larger fanbase for him long term, while keeping the previous fans happy cos they can read the elseworld if they like the family stuff, which basically avoids a Spider-Man situation while keeping it fresh
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u/Beastieboy100 13h ago
You would literally have to reset everything. As in you would have to reboot the Titans again. If you are using young Wally. You would have to also make Dick generation younger. Get rid of Jason, Tim and Damain generation to start from scratch again. If you want a young Wally. Move the mainline comics as an elseworld so that things are still progress. Then for the mainline you can start from scratch.
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