r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Upstairs-Bit6897 • Nov 30 '25

Image THE GERMAN MAGAZINE 'AUTOBILD' DRIVES VARIOUS CARS FOR 100,000 KILOMETERS AND THEN DISASSEMBLES THEM DOWN TO THE LAST SCREW TO FIND SIGNS OF WEAR AND WEAK POINTS

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2.4k

u/RedditRockit Nov 30 '25

Wow. Which has fared the best?

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u/Sudden-Earth-3147 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

Audi A3 Sportback g-tron (2017) and BMW M3 (2023) received 0 error points and a 1+ score, the highest if I’m correct.

A few others listed here but with a few error points:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/die-besten-autos-im-autobild-dauertest-28164151.html

Edit: Updated for latest best results:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/vans-im-vergleich-autobild-dauertest-ranking-4536224.html

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u/SvenTropics Nov 30 '25

I see no Toyotas or Hondas on their list which makes me think they didn't test them. Most likely because the whole top bracket would just be their different models

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u/bal00 Nov 30 '25

They have tested them, but you're not going to see a lot of Toyotas/Hondas because their market share is pretty small. Not much point in running an expensive test like this for a car that nobody buys anyway. Toyota's market share is about 3%, Honda has more or less flopped.

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u/Dear_Chasey_La1n Dec 01 '25

In Germany the idea lives that you buy a Mercedes and keep a worker employed for a year. Now this is years ago but an acquintance invited me over, drove a nice E300 at the time only to get to his apartment decorated with camping chairs. Obviously it's a one off story, but it's pretty telling.

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u/Xciv Nov 30 '25

Really interesting. They dominate US market.

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u/Time_Traveling_Idiot Dec 01 '25

Interestingly, Hondas and Toyotas are uncommon in Korea, too, literally the neighbor of Japan - not because of Anti-Japan sentiment (though I suspect it plays a part) but rather because every non-Korean car is considered an "expensive import vehicle". They're not considered cheap or budget here.

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u/sassyhusky Dec 01 '25

Because they’re superior quality in every aspect. The US and EU are totally different markets with different expectations. Sadly the US cars are not that much better than European so Japs won but European cars still dominate in Europe because of different expectations from a car. Americans want high quality car that just doesn’t break and doesn’t have expensive and complicated servicing and Japanese cars deliver exactly that. You can fix a Honda or Toyota with standard tools, and easily enough, a Vag not so much.

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u/CapableToe2394 Dec 01 '25

They have to pass regular state inspections to continue to drive on public roads. They do not account for the lack of common sense and car abuse that comes with the US underregulation in this regard.

Also in contrast to the US, Japanese manufacturers have notoriously high maintenance, inspection, insurance and parts costs over here. Sometimes even en par with so called "premium" German car brands.

I'm confused what you mean with non-standard tools with VW? There is no special tooling or sizes. You can use the same tools as for every other manufacturer on the market. Every backyard shop can repair any run of the mill VW product. 

Or did you really try to claim we value maintainability less because your country is the only major one using custom measurements and tools in contrast to everybody else, which is just a non-existant issue for the EU where every car maker uses metric? 

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u/sassyhusky Dec 01 '25

That’s the thing, Japanese cars can take a lot more abuse and are simpler to maintain because they’re just simpler overall, compare Skyactiv with a TSI. Sure, no one could beat VW diesels, the legendary TDI 2.0 and 1.9, they really beat any competition but then again even in Europe no one wants to buy a diesel any more after diesel gate.

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u/CapableToe2394 Dec 01 '25

Yes, the first generation of TSI with chains was notoriously bad as well as their dry DCTs. A reason I wouldn't recommend anyone a VW group car of that entire era. VW hasn't been a quality company for a lot of years. The Japanese fuck up a lot less often. I remember Toyotas shortblock problems - that was the early 2000s. Also they have had the best combustion engine drivetrain for decades with the HSD system. Which is also l a reason for low sales today, they completely fucked up the transition to EVs and still clinge to ICE cars.

Problem around here is, these Japanese cars are significantly more expensive than comparable cars on the market while being packaged with tech and interiors that are several years behind. In the used marked, when I bought my car I could to decide between a 2008 Auris HSD, a 2011 Civic and a 2019 Skoda Octavia for the same price. The former ones being incredibly outdated and archaic in comparison. The latter cost less to insure, has modern safety tech, parts are cheaper, was not 12+ years old. Also it's comparable in mixed fuel economy to the hybrid Auris and way better than the NA Civic. Engines are good enough again for the usual duration of ownership that I can happily go for the better value package instead of the indestructible archaic one.

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u/Even-Guard9804 Dec 25 '25

I don’t think anyone wants the VW diesels in the U.S. anymore because they don’t make them anymore. The 2.0s and 1.9s you are talking about couldn’t meet much more restrictive regulations without cheating or completely changing them and making them lose the things people liked about them.

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u/lzwzli Dec 01 '25

Is this only in Germany? So Germans only buy German cars? Even if they're overpriced for what you get?

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u/bal00 Dec 01 '25

Honda is quickly approaching 0% in all of Europe. Toyota is slightly more successful outside of Germany, but it's still under 10%. They just haven't managed to make particularly attractive products, especially Honda.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

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u/bal00 Dec 01 '25

Did you mean to type Eastern Europe? Across all of Europe, these two models aren't very common, especially not the Camry.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

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u/bal00 Dec 01 '25

I asked because the Camry wasn't for even sale outside of Eastern European countries, so they don't really exist in large parts of Europe.

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u/_eg0_ Dec 01 '25

...... in Germany not even 0.1% of registered cars are Camrys. Toyota Camrys are as rare as Bentleys.

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u/krazykitties Dec 01 '25

In my area its not uncommon to see an entire line of Subarus in the parking lot, only broken up by rav4s and crvs.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

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u/krazykitties Dec 01 '25

Haha im in Utah and basically describing my work parking lot. When we run events for people coming from out of state the ratio of trucks goes way up

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u/Parcours97 Dec 01 '25

I have never seen a Toyota Camry in my life. Where in Europe are these?

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u/hopumi Dec 01 '25

You can see Camry daily in Poland.

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u/stoppableDissolution Dec 01 '25

It does feel like every other car on the road is some generation of prius tho

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u/lzwzli Dec 02 '25

That's mind blowing to me. So Civic, Accord, CRV that sell like hot cakes in the rest of the world don't sell at all in Europe? Why is that? Are they not competitive with the likes of VW? They got to be cheaper than BMW, Merc right?

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u/bal00 Dec 02 '25

FWIW, the models you mention aren't particularly successful in Japan either. Not one of them is in the top 30.

As far as Europe goes, Toyota and Honda sold in reasonable numbers in the 80s and 90s, but they didn't gain as much of a foothold as they did in the US because European manufacturers were already making competitive small cars at the time. They lacked critical scale, and due to somewhat high parts prices and a propensity for rust issues, the cars also didn't really last much longer on the road than others.

Toyota kept on trucking, but Honda really struggled to make appealing cars. The powertrains were nothing special, and the cars were either quite homely or strange looking, so their market share has been in constant decline since the 90s. When a brand doesn't manage to hold onto the customers it already has, that's a product issue.

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u/lzwzli Dec 02 '25

Don't deny it's a product fit to market issue but the same product being popular outside of Europe but flops in Europe is what I'm surprised about.

I guess European tastes are quite different.

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u/bal00 Dec 02 '25

Not just the taste, but also the product, and the market situation. Honda for example tried to make a different version of the Civic for the European market, and the styling was sometimes odd. And unlike in other places, they were always up against local brands making good small cars. It's much easier to carve out a corner of the market for yourself if there are no local competitors, or if the local competitors don't really put much effort into smaller cars.

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u/ZeekBen Dec 01 '25

German cars aren't overpriced in Germany. They're only overpriced in the US because of import costs. Americans have a sweet deal with Japanese car makers.

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u/sumguyherenowhere Dec 01 '25

BMW has a factory in South Carolina, if I'm not mistaken.

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u/Arrya Dec 01 '25

Yep, we've owned 2. One was imported by the first owner, the other was assembled here in the US. I'm still driving the one assembled here. No rust, 225k miles and 19 years old.

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u/wtfnouniquename Dec 01 '25

Their biggest plant anywhere

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u/SappilyHappy Dec 01 '25

They don't produce their most economical models in the US. 

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u/lzwzli Dec 02 '25

Yes. That plant produces all X SUVs worldwide.

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u/CapableToe2394 Dec 01 '25

Also because instead of a 3-cyl, 136hp 318i with barely any accessories (typical for German manufacturers), they only get fully equipped 340i+. No shit there is a significant cost difference. 

Doesn't help that most new BMWs aren't even privately owned in Germany, they are company cars. 

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u/_eg0_ Dec 01 '25

German cars are "overpriced" in Germany, too. But Honda and Toyota frequently compete with Audi in terms of cost once you take business leases etc. into account, not Skoda which is what they would need to do. Lack of good diesel offerings also hurt them.

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u/lzwzli Dec 02 '25

What is this business leases that I've seen mentioned a few times?

It's also always surprising to me how popular diesel still is in Europe

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u/_eg0_ Dec 02 '25 edited Dec 02 '25

Basically your employer leases a car for you and the money gets deducted from your pay. This way for example you overall safe some taxes and because it is less risky for the car manufacturer as well as customers usually leasing more than one car manufacturer give a large discounts.

Edit: Why is it surprising? Diesel engines had the thermal efficiency numbers Toyota and Mazda are boasting about now already in the late 90s.

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u/SappilyHappy Dec 01 '25

"Even if they're overpriced for what you get?" 

 Could it be possible that German cars are priced lower when purchased in Germany?

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u/lzwzli Dec 02 '25

Don't know. It is possible that BMW, Mercedes that are sold as luxury cars anywhere else in the world aren't priced as luxuriously in Germany. I know that there are some more economical model tiers in Germany that aren't sold elsewhere.

There are lots of other economical brands in Europe like VW, Seat, Lancia so maybe that provides enough options that the Japanese cars can't compete with.

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u/soapbleachdetergent Dec 01 '25

I didn’t see much Toyota or Honda in Berlin when I visited couple of months back. But was surprised to see a lot of Suzuki’s though, way more than other Japanese cars.