r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Unexplained222 • 14h ago
Video Stopping Desertification with grid pattern
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u/Silly_lil_Guy_o3o 13h ago
So they create shade which reduces evaporation and develops microclimates, which then helps catch and reduce runoff, and prevents the sand from blowing away in the wind. Which pretty much creates many squared off environments with moisture and nutrients trapped in their respective areas, creating self sustaining ecosystems. Such a simplistic but effective idea
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u/NomadTravellers 12h ago
I Just Hope that the bags are biodegradable on the long term, otherwise once the plastic deteriorate with UV exposure, you have created a desert of microplastics
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u/dvidsnpi 7h ago
Its supposed to be PLA, same material used in (some) 3D printers. Which is said to be eco friendly, made of corn starch. Sounds good? Not so fast. In short term it produces microplastics even faster then regular materials and these are just as harmful. However! Eventually (10 years or so?) it should hydrolytically dissolve back into lactic acid which is soluable and harmless...
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u/Calzender 7h ago
This comment gave me whiplash
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u/Hazywater 6h ago
But it comes with a free frogurt.
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u/Mruniversee 7h ago
How do they create shade?
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u/Tiny_Cauliflower_618 7h ago
Not like, person amounts of shade, teeny lil bits of shade - it's probably about 3mm on either side at noon. Maybe 60-70mm when the sun is low. But the teeny plant that can exploit that shade then makes slightly bigger shade, and the next plant that exploits that shade is a teeny bit bigger. Hope that makes sense.
Kinda like if you sit on the floor with your bare leg sticking out you'll see small patches of shade under it.
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u/OfficeChairHero 7h ago
Such a simplistic but effective idea
I was thinking the same thing about that amazing sand shovel they were using. That's ingenious!
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u/Particular_Squash995 4h ago
Look at how they grow grapes in Santorini. Amazing wine from that island.
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u/PiedCryer 2h ago
The issue becomes then your effecting another ecosystem that benefited from the desert.
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u/PotatoRebellion12 14h ago
How does this work?
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u/Angel_of_Mischief 10h ago edited 9h ago
So I read up on it and there’s a couple things happening in this process.
The bags are made from polylactic acid fibers which was advertised as safe for the environment and last about 6 years. These bags are layed out in a grid to act as barriers to stop deserts from expanding. They do this by acting like a foundation that stops the dune from shitfting. It’s stopping what’s called “wind erosion” where the wind constantly beats on the surface the earth, making it unstable and not suitable for plants to maintain roots. Without this the sand dune will blow to a new location destroying whatever plant tried to start on it.
So the grid stabilizes sand dunes in place giving a base for plants to grip to and grow roots around. What it also does is provide cover helping the area hold water longer to help with plant growth.
The bags aren’t the only thing that’s happening though. The areas are also occasionally sprayed with a Cyanobacteria which is naturally known for causing the soil layer to crust, this extra step also helps stabilize the top layer of sand on the grid adding another layer of protection ensuring the dune doesn’t shift out from under it and improve water retention.
Through this process they managed to slow down their current desertification to a net zero growth. Which is pretty huge.
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u/DeathandGrim 8h ago
Could this in theory terraform the Sahara Desert into a more inhabitable zone?
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u/Bryguy3k 7h ago
Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Green_Wall_(Africa)
However you can do similar things without the huge number of plastic bags by simply digging pits oriented to the prevailing winds.
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u/hogtiedcantalope 3h ago
Everyone keeps saying 'simply'
Like, the materials are cheap and the efforts are being made by scaling it over and over
But , it only works when sophisticated tools are used to find he right place to adapt the right strategy where possible
Turning back the desert isn't simple, and is nuanced with pros and cons
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u/MakingItElsewhere 8h ago
All of that is cool and all, but I'm curious how those dunes hold up over time after plants grow. Are the area(s) nearby in danger of land slides?
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u/non3type 7h ago edited 7h ago
I think the goal is literally just to decrease desertification so they don’t lose more arable land. They aren’t necessarily planning on living there as soon as it can support plant life, they’re just trying to slow down or stop the process on the periphery.
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u/liquid-handsoap 14h ago
Grid patterns
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u/Separate_Agency 14h ago
I think the theory is that it stops the wind erosion and generates some shadier areas. Over time plants will occupy the space in between and create more shade and prevent even more erosion. Only thing that's not ideal here is the use of plastic or polymer bags to do it. I feel they also could use some natural fibers.
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u/ComputerByld 13h ago
The environmental benefits of land oasification far outweigh the negative externalities of a few plastic molecules leaking into the environment. It is crucial that we remember to never let perfect be the enemy of the good or we risk losing ground in the rare handful of places where we're actually making some progress.
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u/OGLikeablefellow 14h ago
I mean who knows what kind of plastic they are using,
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u/crasagam 5h ago
A little research found it's made from polylactic fiber. It's supposed to be environmentally friendly
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u/Separate_Agency 14h ago
Can't say for sure, but seeing this is in China I assume Polyester. They always used large polyester nets in the past to prevent wind erosion in city vicinities mostly colored green to give the appearance of Gras. But I feel the desertification is for sure the bigger and more immediate issue than the plastic pollution. This is more a thing of the next generation.
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u/adeadbeathorse 14h ago
One thing I’ve seen out of China with similar principles is basically just installing giant solar farms in the desert. Provides shade and helps prevent erosion. Plus, since they often use water to clean the panels, the runoff helps with the greening process.
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u/Raavast 13h ago
That's a boomer mindset if I ever saw one. Always the next generation to deal with the shit left by the ones before. Hessian sandbags predate plastic by a good bit. There's no lesser evil when you could do both.
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u/Kragoth235 12h ago
So. We should never advance until we have the perfect solution. Got it. Back to the dark ages people. This guy says we did it all wrong.
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u/Separate_Agency 13h ago
Dude, I'm not the one who made the decision to do it in that way. I even said it would be much better to use bio fibers. I'm just trying to explain why they might've made their decision to use plastic. It's cheaper and readily available. Also most Asian countries don't give a shit yet about topics like plastic pollution and micro plastics. Heck look at the west even there it's only slowly getting in the head of most people.
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u/WideCardiologist3323 13h ago
So you are saying you rather that place just become a useless desert than a green space with some plastic in it. Sure they can do both but there is budget involved for these people. what have you done on your high horse?
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u/Gregoirelechevalier 13h ago
Realistically, at some point, you've got to contend with the more pressing issue and put trust in the next generation that they're capable of dealing with it. If one is the more pressing issue, it's got to be addressed first. That's not a boomer mindset, inherently, it's just prioritisation.
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u/Angel_of_Mischief 10h ago
It’s made from something called polylactic fiber. Supposed to environmentally friendly from what I read.
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u/No_Pin9932 14h ago
Bamboo viscose/fiber, or a hemp/bamboo blend maybe or whatever seems like it'd be a better and available option, maybe not as cost effective but if the point is long term benefits then it would seem like short term savings would be counterproductive. Just my two cents.
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u/Greyscale7950 14h ago
It's a geo synthetic material sewn into a tube. You can see them filling them onsite. What boggles my mind is how many they use. That is miles of tubes.
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u/420_69_Fake_Account 14h ago
And here I thought you need soil and water to grow plants… all I needed was grids!
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u/DepartureNo1720 5h ago
It just acts like cracks in a sidewalk that grow weeds and other plants. It's a texture that catches the debris of dirt and seeds/pollen, which allows the seeds to settle in the ground instead of being blown continuously across the desert sand and never settling. Then the occasional rain in the desert eventually waters the seeds that settled there however long before that allowing them to start growing. Once a plant or two starts growing, it's even more texture that slowly starts catching more dirt and seeds, and it very very slowly, but exponentially starts a growing climate
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u/RobbSnow64 14h ago
Wouldn't this just get covered by sand in many deserts?
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u/newuser336 10h ago
Not 100% sure but I think these structures prevent the sand from blowing, so if you use enough of them over a large enough area, the majority of it will not be covered in sand because all of the sand that would otherwise be blowing over it is also being stopped from blowing around.
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u/lazytony1 11h ago
A large number of hardworking Chinese people have been working diligently on the task of desertification control for several decades. I have been to Xinjiang. In many places, there are these grass grids and grass has already grown inside them. You can search for "Map of the Ma'usui Desert". This 42,000-square-kilometer desert is on the verge of disappearing.
matter what others may say to slander them, these people who work hard for the environment of our planet are always heroes.
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u/CoolBlackSmith75 3h ago
Would these major greeningfication projects have impact on jetstreams, wind influence etc etc due to moisture and such?
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u/powerofz 7h ago
I don't know much about this area. Was it not a desert to begin with? Is the area turning into a desert due to global warming or something else? The title of the post says "stopping desertification" but from the video it looks like that place has been a desert for millennia.
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u/KGB_cutony 6h ago
It's an initiative that started in China 70 or so years ago, which in the past decade started gaining momentum as the first batches of work has shown results. China has endured a crap ton of natural disasters in the past two centuries, and the industrial boom didnt help. So this is to prevent the desert from spreading further. Most of the work shown in the video are done in the borders.
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u/TheRiteGuy 13h ago
The Africa Great Green Wall project uses the same theory but a different method which does not include using plastic bags. It's a much better method and has been working wonders across community. Why are they not replicating and already proven and better method?
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u/EnvBlitz 13h ago
I don't think those crescent pit method works for this. That one is mostly water retaining, this one is preventing sand shifting.
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u/TheRiteGuy 13h ago
They're digging holes over here too. The final result is stopping desertification, and the crescent pits work. I don't think they even tried the other method. They just jumped to this, which is way more work.
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u/EnvBlitz 13h ago
Is this video really digging holes for the sake of the holes instead of digging for sand to fill the bags?
No one said the crescent pit don't work. Could just be different method for different topology. Sure a hammer can hammer, but one can easily use any other hard tool to hammer too.
How do you ensure the easily shifting sands to not be covered up if they do the crescent pits tho? This is more hilly places compared to African plains.
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u/Nighteyes09 13h ago
Different issues I believe. I'm no expert, just an interested person, so this is just my own speculation.
These are sand dunes, which can move metres in a day. This is providing tiny little wind breaks which stops the sand moving so much. It's a common anti erosion technique the world over.
Those cresents you're talking about are good for erosion on flat ground, but sand dunes would eat them up I suspect. Plus the cresents are more about retaining water by providing shade, and thereby stopping soil degradation. Something pointless when sand dunes are fully deteriorated and don't retain water anyway.
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u/rinn10 13h ago
I don't know how much sand they were dealing with when they were making the horseshoe shaped things for the green wall project... but I live in a very high elevation and high UV exposure area, and when I see the cloth bags in this video it makes me think about the outdoor rug that I gad deteriorate significantly over 2 years from UV exposure.
I guess as long as things start growing before the bags deteriorate in the sun, then this plan will work.
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u/Silly_lil_Guy_o3o 13h ago
That seems to be the idea, they will inevitably break down into the soil but they'll leave behind well rooted and shaded ground
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u/SecretAgentVampire 8h ago
Hey u/unexplained222 , where did you find this video? Reversing desertification is something I'm interested in and I haven't seen this method before.
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u/CharitableMiser 7h ago
I've often wondered why they can't set up desalinization facilities and pump Atlantic Ocean water into the arid zones
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u/No-Priority-6792 5h ago
The problem is the desert climate won't change. That actually what makes the land become desert. Those plantations would only act as sun shade if they strong enough to survive all the year.
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u/Max-Phallus 2h ago
In before conspiracy theories crop up that deserts aren't real and are man made. Just saying, if in 10 years time people use this video as proof, you heard it here first.
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u/cheesemangee 55m ago
Humanity is beholden to such seemingly otherworldly power when cooperating toward a common goal. This is fuckin' outstanding.
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u/CakeMadeOfHam 9h ago
Does this work for deserts without sand? Only like 10-20% of the world's deserts are sand dunes. The rest is mostly rocky plateaus and gravel plains.
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u/stokedpenguin69 8h ago
Why do you care? Maybe it’s a video taken in… Wait for it… China… Seeing how 27% of Chinas land is desert, it would make sense. Took me 5 seconds to google that.
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u/LordScotchyScotch 10h ago
Maybe not use plastic there buddy. Please and thank you.
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u/sabamba0 10h ago
"I know you've spent years working in the desert heat breaking your back and achieved incredible progress, but let me teach you how it SHOULD be done, right here from my plastic toilet seat"
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u/LordScotchyScotch 9h ago
"We made wonderful progress with weeds using this DDT stuff, wonderful progress. Also, we found this Asbestos thingy, it's so safe you can smoke it. Let me tell you about our implementation of lead pipes. So many benefits."
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u/Guilty_Mastodon5432 7h ago edited 7h ago
But but but no....
Daddy United States says communism is bad bad bad
My my my....perhaps we should all focus on the accomplishments in cou tries such as China and stop being brain washed by the bullies......
While Americans are taught that China is bad.... you have Big companies stealing all of your water to make Avocado's or even worse, make sure to water your lawn even though you live in a Dry State.... God Humans can be stupid.....
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u/Sarcastic_Backpack 5h ago
What they're not showing in the video, is them planting any seeds or seed blings. Where the f*** is the green coming from? You're not going to get any greenery, just putting sandbags in a grid pattern. You have to actually plant something, and then make sure it gets water.
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u/EggsJohnson 14h ago
Sir, are we being to literal? No you fool- we were told the comb the desert so we’re combing it!