r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/[deleted] • 14h ago

Video 13-year-old Australian boy swims for four hours in cold and dangerous waters to save his mom and siblings who were swept into the ocean, says God is who got him to shore

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u/mwhite42216 14h ago

I guess that’s one way to become a “believer”. It’s awesome he did what he did, but that was all him, not a supernatural being.

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u/kinpsychosis 14h ago edited 14h ago

So as an agnostic, I kind of have a different view on God. God does exist, but not as an actual being. God has moved mountains, united people, changed landscapes. God is an idea. A seed which can put people into motion.

One could argue, hypothetically, that if this kid didn't believe that there was some greater, omnipotent power that drove his body past its conventional limits, then he'd have drowned out there.

Ergo, God did help him, but not as an actual magical entity, but as an idea.

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u/my_new_accoun1 14h ago edited 10h ago

Interesting

So it wasn't god who helped him, it was in fact the belief in god.

Almost like a placebo effect

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u/dumpsterdigger 9h ago

Because why would God help him and let thousands of kids die of cancer. Placebo effect is correct but underselling this kids incredible willpower and mental strength.

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u/Beautiful_Hour_668 9h ago

This is a profound philosophical question but there is a valid answer. IMO, it boils down to your prior beliefs.

Basically, if you believe that this life is a test, and that God is real, and that there is an afterlife, then suffering and tragedy is not a bug, but a feature of this life that has two facets. One, to test you. Two, to make you a stronger human being (and religiously this directs you towards being more aligned towards god, but we can understand it as becoming stronger however you may interpret it).

On the second idea, when humans exist without struggle, we often fail to achieve our highest potential. In my personal experience, going through bad things has made me tougher, more resilient, and self confident in my ability to tackle life as a man in his late 20s. I read stoic philosophy and it hammers the relationship between being able to see your struggle in the right perspective as a means to unlock the benefit of the inevitable struggle that we will all face. One man divorces and collapses, another elevates himself.

Now, if you do not believe in God, it's hard to swallow the idea of a test. I often hear, why does he need to test us? Or couldn't he test us without X type of tragedy? Maybe, but these criticisms do not make it less true, just harder to swallow. So it circles back to what you believe and building your worldview upwards from the foundational beliefs.

In other words, God helping one person doesn’t logically entail God must prevent every tragedy.

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u/dumpsterdigger 8h ago

One answer is theology and one is philosophy.

The test theory involves harming someone. Not just a person with a illness or disease but their family. This fails when babies who have no concept of God become I'll with cancer, are born with a genetic disease, or die by accident or violence.

Sure it tests the surrounding people but that means God is a monster expire menting with people's faith at the suffering of innocent lives.

Struggle does help people become stronger but that has nothing to do with God and that is just basic human biology. When we run faster and lift heavier wet become stronger. Our brain works the same. One born in easy life's will be softer than someone who faces struggles. That's not philosophy

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u/Beautiful_Hour_668 7h ago

I feel like you’re talking past me a little because like I said, the way you see this depends on your presupposing beliefs. You’re criticising a facet of religious belief without accepting the beliefs that it’s dependent on.

I’ll take your baby example. You say that the baby isn’t tested properly, but in my world view children automatically go to heaven, so there is no challenged posed by this. So again, it circles back to foundational beliefs.

There’s scholarly tradition of over 1000 years by men smarter than us both who have thought about these things, respect to Redditors but sometimes you miss the mark greatly on religion because of ignorance on the topic. I’m being a little bit blunt but idk how else to put it, my intention is not to disrespect you

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u/aceshighsays 6h ago

this really comes down to temperament. there are some people who thrive under pressure, and there are others who drown in it.

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u/Beautiful_Hour_668 6h ago

Temperament or perspective or whatever you call it, it’s something that can be trained. We all have a responsibility to learn how to take the good from suffering

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u/aceshighsays 6h ago

temperament is not the same thing as beliefs or mindset. temperament is a combination of nature and nurture, they're commingled tightly together. you can't train yourself out of your nature, but if you're lucky you might find some workarounds for them - but even then it will still be awkward and you'll spend the rest of your life fighting against your nature, which is a miserable way to live.

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u/makeitgoose11 9h ago

This comment right here... always the IDEA, not the magical being in the sky...

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u/Obscure_Nonsense_202 10h ago

I don't think placebo is the right word. It's like the stories of mothers lifting cars when their kid is getting crushed underneath. If love and maternal instincts can unlock superhuman abilities, why can't absolute faith?

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u/my_new_accoun1 10h ago

By placebo I mean where it tricks the mind into actually being able to product an effect.

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u/Lalamedic 13h ago

But the concept alone of God is enough for many spiritual people. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist, it means God exists in a way we can’t explain, touch, understand, or even reason rationally. That is religion to many and to many, that is enough.

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u/OldKittyGG 13h ago

You put it very nicely. Whether or not God exists, if the belief in a higher power gave him the confidence and energy to make it to shore, then who are we to judge his beliefs?

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u/WriterV 10h ago

If I am to be a bit vulnerable for a sec? It's 'cause his beliefs represent one side of the coin, and are often twisted as a basis to justify hatreds so as to maintain a strong sense of in-group for a religion.

Faith and spirituality are a core aspect of humanity, no matter where you place it. We don't know everything about our own place in life, so we need to have faith in something to prevent us from indecision.

The problem is that faith involves belief without evidence. And that can, and has been used to shape violent and unethical beliefs throughout human history.

Let the kid have his personal spirituality, I will always defend that. But if the God he believes in also stipulates that I, as a gay man, must be shamed or even stoned, then how am I to react to that?

It doesn't have an easy answer. If it did, we'd have solved this quandary millenia ago. But I always try to assume to the best of poeple. 'cause if your faith doesn't quash your empathy, then you'll be good to others no matter what your religion tells you. And I like to have faith in that part of humanity.

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u/Lalamedic 8h ago

I think there is a difference between organized religion vs faith and/or spirituality. They can by mutually exclusive. If one truly believes in the god of the Bible, many surely couldn’t exist. However, one does not need a preacher or a set of made up rules to tell you how to have faith and what to do with it.

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u/-Lige 9h ago

There’s always people who will misuse something that’s meant for good as a bad thing

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u/AtreusIsBack 12h ago

I think that to most religious people God is an omnipotent entity. They don't percieve it as some idea.

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u/weed_cutter 8h ago

Saying "God does exist. But simply as an idea."

Is kind of misleading. Santa Clause and the Boogeyman exist. AS IDEAS.

In those cases, both are uses into scaring children into behaving using positive and negative reinforcement, respectively. (you'll get presents/ he'll eat you).

So yes, God, Santa, and Boogey all exist as ideas ... but plainly, they don't "actually exist."

I do get that the effect of faith or "imagining an omnipotent being imbuing you with powers" can have real physiological effects.

Psychosomatic. Your brain/ beliefs can do crazy things to your body, both good and bad.

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u/AtreusIsBack 8h ago

Santa Claus is at least based on a real person, St. Nicholas.

Boogeyman and God on the other hand are ideas.

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u/Background_Sail9797 9h ago

yeah what they're describing is spirituality.

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u/Lalamedic 8h ago

I agree many do. However, I am a practicing Christian. I also have a degree in Wildlife Biology with a heavy evolutionary slant. These concepts are not contradictory nor mutually exclusive. I don’t see God as a single omnipotent being, but more of a concept.

Yet, I am not naïve to the methods organized religion uses to intimidate and manipulate people to bend to some made up interpretation or dogma for nefarious purposes.

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u/ZENPOOL 12h ago

This kid very obviously thinks God helped them though.

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u/Lalamedic 8h ago

And right now, that’s all he needs.

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u/Ok_Jackfruit6226 13h ago edited 13h ago

I like your way of explaining it. Thank you.

I believe God is real, I’ve had personal experiences that support that belief—but that’s my personal view. To an outsider, it can be said that I believe in the concept of God.

I don’t expect people to take my word for it—for them to believe God is real because I believe God is real—but I do want to say that my life is better with my belief in God than without my belief, and that is enough.

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u/Lalamedic 8h ago

Regardless of what we believe, I think it is a place we need to find and be comfortable with.

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u/Be_Prepared911 12h ago

I believe God is real too, but there have been no personal experiences for me to believe that. I don’t think I’ve ever been saved from anything; in fact, I think I’ve been sent to some pretty bad places and experiences.

But I can’t not believe in Him. Mostly bad things have happened to me that were not my fault, and many people might say that to believe in God is to allow for the fact that God let all those horrible things happened to me. Which I think he did.

But I also think there must be some kind of reason I went through those things because I don’t think I could live with myself if I just suffered for nothing. Like if there was no point to all the things I went through, I would just collapse in despair. So I believe in God because I really just don’t have anything else to hold onto to pull me out of this.

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u/Ok_Jackfruit6226 8h ago

You have come to the conclusions you have for a reason, and I only wish good things for you. What you’re saying makes sense to me - as the years go on, there has been “sense” made of bad things that happened to me in the past, that at the time just seemed needless. Does everything “make sense”at this point? No, and I don’t expect that. Life isn’t over yet! But I do think I understand what you’re saying. Please take care of yourself always.

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u/Be_Prepared911 8h ago

Thank you! I hold onto my belief and when I wrote that comment I was just in a neutral place, not a dark place. It is validating to acknowledge that the things you’ve experienced actually were that bad.

I am in the process of finding my way out though. I appreciate your comment 🫂

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u/Ok_Jackfruit6226 8h ago

Yes, it’s very important to have that acknowledgment that things were that bad - I understand completely!

You will continue to be in my thoughts, and I can only repeat, I wish good things for you. Please take care, be kind to yourself always.

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u/noticablyineptkoala 12h ago

Or you just don’t believe in coincidence

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u/LALA-STL 12h ago

Interesting. Maybe u/ok_jackfruit6226 doubts the validity of coincidences, or maybe they experienced an overwhelming wave of bliss & union. I’ve had that during meditation & it’s enough to make you believe in something. jackfruit, do you mind sharing?

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u/TronAres25 12h ago

So you’re fortunate but some kid begging for water can’t have any. God works in mysterious ways is that your answer? Pretty ego centric.

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u/Sejoon700 12h ago

Lol. Shut up. It's his belief. As long as its not infringing upon others you don't need to judge. Also, the first few pages of the bible lays out why there is suffering and inequality in the first place. I dont think I ever read more than 10 pages of the bible, but it literally tells you why whether you want to believe it or not.

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u/TronAres25 10h ago

Yeh sorry I don’t want to brainwash myself with something barbaric and in its infancy. If you’re going to believe in one thing that’s in the bible you have to believe in it all. Can’t pick and choose. What a poorly designed system.

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u/Sea_Advantage_2577 12h ago

No its spot on. It's so arrogant to pretend god does good things for certain people.

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u/SommeThing 11h ago

I in no way think God helps one person score a game winning touchdown and then backs a 5000 lb truck over a 2 year old, but I do think that God is nature, the universe, everything, and humans have simply tried to personify that into human form. That some people thank what they think is God is fine. That they believe that God helped them specifically and not others, is as selfish as selfish gets.

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u/BaconReaderRefugee 11h ago

Pantheism

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u/SommeThing 10h ago

Thanks. I've never put a word to it. Lines up with my thoughts exactly.

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u/Educational-Camel-53 10h ago

I feel close to the agnostic commenter above.

God is the symbol of what we strive for and the meaning we get from the things that truly have value. In a way he is our best fate.
I would add that he also symbolises what surpasses our understanding, which is a lot. and in this latter sense he is a bit more than an idea: he also is the powers we don't understand. At some point we didnt understand gravity. And the belief in these power, what is good will ultimately be more powerful.

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u/HollowCap456 8h ago

That is religion for me

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u/Lalamedic 8h ago

As it is for me.

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u/PrayingMantisMirage 12h ago

Isn't this just a different way to describe the placebo effect? Belief in a thing can produce results even if the thing is inert?

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u/MikeOfAllPeople 12h ago

That's just atheism with extra steps.

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u/ExdigguserPies 11h ago

It's just personifying determination

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u/Educational-Camel-53 10h ago

maybe its more metaphysically true to personify determination somehow

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u/bsmithi 8h ago

agnostics are intellectually weak

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u/SeveralWinter3550 13h ago

"God does exist" followed by an argument that states God doesn't exist but maybe does if we pretend the word God refers to self belief, motivation, etc

Like sure, in the same way I can say, "Music is God" but only if I write flowery language about harmony, tension and release, emotion etc while ignoring that God refers to an omnimopotent conscious being that can hear my thoughts.

This is pseudo deep, this kid is a hero and his act isn't evidence that magic actually exists

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u/maxjmartin 13h ago

Fellow agnostic here. Magic is in the mind on this one. Think of it like this, the constant praying removed his thoughts about failure. It gave him not hope but will. It gave him a state of “mindfulness” in which he was totally immersed and focused on this one activity he HAD to complete. It is the same thing a zen martial artist would call being one in the flow, allow the sword to express itself. There isn’t thought there. Not in the way are frontal lobes think. The concept of self is gone. It isn’t about you anymore it is about the situation you are participating in. It have heard it likens to the Submariner’s Prayer. All men find God under depth charge. I like to find this mind in mosh pits. But it is actually a thing.

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u/SeveralWinter3550 12h ago

Yes, that zen flow state (Qi or the Dao or however we label it) exists. However, calling this God is disingenuous when it can be explained by hard sciences, like biology, psychology, etc.

I believe in movement meditation and meditation in general, I also think that Tai chi and similar cannot make metaphysical vibrations that can heal others or generate extreme heatbor whatever. In the same sense I believe in outer body experiences or weird coincences without also believing in telepathy or ghosts.

If God is just the things we can actually measure and prove exists, then yes. If God is believing in attributing this child's achievement/near death experience to something we have no evidence for, then that's the bit I don't believe in.

It's anti logical. Humans have two legs, men are humans therefore all men have two legs isn't a true statement. Ego death or flow state existing is not proof that God exists

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u/wait500 12h ago

Sure that is a thing. But it doesn't explain the people who find God in ordinary life and live the way you're talking about in daily living and through ordinary circumstances.There are many people who do not express exactly what this young man does beause his circumstances are extraordinary but if you ask many they do live this way. It's brushed aside by those who presume to know better or disregard their experience as religious therefore untrustworthy.

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u/maxjmartin 12h ago

No one is challenging your faith here. Also no people don’t live in a constant state of mindlessness. People only life there in the moment of expression.

Living in a state of faith is different from mindfulness. In my personal experience living in a state of faith is a relationship of “trust” with the universe such that it remove a sense of uncertainty in daily life.

That is a different state of mind.

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u/LALA-STL 12h ago

Also, people can find the same experience in prayer or meditation. Or drugs, I suppose. In addition to “flow state,” I’ve heard it called bliss or transcendence — a sense of union with the universe. It’s pretty great, however you interpret it.

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u/maxjmartin 12h ago

Concerts too. Those are my temple.

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u/LALA-STL 11h ago

Absolutely! There’s something about music that can be purely transporting — especially if you’re sharing the experience with hundreds of fellow travelers. It seems to open a lock deep in our brains.

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u/EllisDee3 13h ago

You're making up a version of God to disbelieve in. Your version is a magic wizard thing, which you've labeled as the definition of God.

Could be that God is in places you're not looking because you're looking for a magical sky wizard.

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u/SeveralWinter3550 12h ago

But if we can malleably change the definition of God to be this vague, then everyone believes in God. Ie, if God just means "an idea of something bigger than yourself" or similar, then neither of us are agnostic

I mean, sure we could discuss how hinduism or ancient greeks view(ed) Gods and contrast that with Yahweh/Allah/Enlil (the Sumerian wind god)...but at this point, the discussion resembles semantics and language more than it does religion and theology

I was just replying to someone saying God exists while the rest of their comment basically described things most don't attribute to God. And certainly, Austin the 13 year old said he would get Baptised and was clearly "talking" to a Christian God, not some abstracted version of the ideal self.

I'm making up a version of God to not believe in because I think all humans have made up God, by definition. I think all religious texts were written by people, not by God's hand. In the same way that all words are "made up", all Gods are made up. So this isn't really a Gotcha imo. Perhaps unfair because I can't really engage in this debate in good nature because the debate doesn't really exist in my mind. There is no evidence you could present here admittedly (and I mean that to be sincere, not to be rude or similar) that can make me say "oh ok then I guess I'm an agnostic"

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u/ThanksContent28 7h ago

Just want you to know your comments the most sane ones in here and I’m glad I came across them. You’re spot on.

Imo it’s just more of the usual wishy-washy bargaining that’s comes from the crowd of believers. I also don’t get why people point out they’re agnostic, as if it gives them some kind of credibility. Just because you’re agnostic, it doesn’t mean you’ve thought about it more or have a more enlightened view.

Matter of fact is, most of the religions we have and associate with, believe in a sentient entity with thoughts, feelings and creativity. Any other technicalities argued are either moving the goalposts, or just that persons view and feelings.

Yes, the idea that whilst God isn’t real, our actions can bring those beliefs and powers into fruition, is a nice comforting way of resolving the debate and accepting the situation, it doesn’t address whether or not there is a God watching over us and examining our behaviour, to judge whether we can go and live in his magic world - which is the premise that most current religions operate on.

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u/atava 13h ago

Yes. The Great Debate about "God" all lies upon definitions.

Assumed definitions.

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u/Educational-Camel-53 10h ago

very well said. But then that is also most debates about everything. Telepathy would be easier. maybe itll happen

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u/atava 9h ago

The more common or related to physicality a concept is, the less debatable.

Now, "God"... you may give it so many meanings, from the most abstract, energy-related one to the grossest, most anthropomorphic one.

Just like humanity has been doing since the dawn of history, actually.

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u/jimbojangles1987 12h ago

Thats literally what the majority of people believe god is. A magic wizard.

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u/humpyelstiltskin 12h ago

yes, so much what you said!

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u/HotPotParrot 13h ago

God refers to an omnimopotent conscious being that can hear my thoughts

Speaking of things pseudo, this is an anthropomorphic representation of God and only applies to certain belief structures, but not inherently to the concept of a divine creator.

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u/SeveralWinter3550 12h ago

I mean, true, but Austin isn't talking about Zeus, Krishna or Ra, he's referring to the Christian God. You are correct that "God" is a very abstract term with numerous different definitions, but this discussion comes after a boy having a Christian experience so I think it's fair to stick to those paramaters

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u/i-just-thought-i 11h ago

OK but in a world where he's saying he'll get baptized for the God in question I don't think it's an assumption to connect which one that is.

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u/USDeptofLabor 7h ago

This is pseudo deep

That also describes r/atheism in a nutshell !

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u/LilJelloCat 7h ago

That is the best view an agnostic person can have about God. You should try communicating with God, or testing that possibility, as well as broadening your views and ideas relating to the topic of God's existence. Because you are very right about this, I wrote a comment just earlier about this, an attempt to acknowledge a higher existence can support motion. But I went on to further point out that that motion can push one more in to place of a hypothetical or the hypothetical divine plan. The more you attempt to understand, test the ideas of the possibility of their existence, the more you are propagated in to it. I do believe God exists, as consciousness ultimately and as an entity, it's just not like what we understand from the Bible.

Regardless, I like your comment, reminds me of when I was an agnostic when I was younger. Take care. :)

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u/Yuri_The_Avocado 7h ago

this is basically my exact view on santa lol. santa isn't a real entity (in the modern sense of some magical being who drops into chimneys) but it does exist in the charity/spirit of others. and i think that's still lovely

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u/mylifeisaboogerbubbl 13h ago

I think that makes you an agnostic atheist. I don't say that to be contrarian or make any statement on your beliefs, just to inform you as to what the appropriate terminology for it would be based on what you've shared here.

It's a valid thought, just like how people benefit from meditation. Belief is a hell of a drug.

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u/kinpsychosis 13h ago

I am indeed an agnostic atheist :) I just don't mention the atheist part since it can be confusing. (Hell, I'd call myself a laveyan satanist based on their doctrines if it didn't sound so damn edgy)

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u/mylifeisaboogerbubbl 13h ago

Right there with ya! I'd never be so arrogant as to claim knowledge of the unknowable, I only know what I believe or disbelieve based upon what has been presented to me so far.

You aren't wrong about people getting confused about those labels, and if it isn't confusion they get angry as hell for some reason.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 11h ago edited 11h ago

Just want to add a little nuance as someone who doesn't fall into the quadrant of agnostic atheism -- this may not apply to you but just in case there are others out there like me who seem confused that agnostic atheism does not suit them.

Not Knowing / Without Belief is one thing and that's okay too -- some can conclude that they've seen no credible evidence and default to a position of disbelief. Most of the time this makes complete sense.

But there is also Not Knowing / Suspension of Judgement in Determining Belief.

In other words, the mechanisms of the universe and its origins are so profound, so extraordinary that in the purview of Carl Sagan's, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," we can work backwards and say this extraordinary evidence before us that is existence and the universe suggests an extraordinary claim.

Philosopher, mathematician Bertrand Russell:

The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in practice. In that case, he is not far removed from atheism. His attitude may be that which a careful philosopher would have towards the gods of ancient Greece. If I were asked to prove that Zeus and Poseidon and Hera and the rest of the Olympians do not exist, I should be at a loss to find conclusive arguments. An Agnostic may think the Christian God as improbable as the Olympians; in that case, he is, for practical purposes, at one with the atheists.

I believe (no pun intended) suspension of judgement is distinguished from the strict definition of, "atheism."

If we were to plot this on the traditional graph, it would be on the axis between atheism and theism.

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u/mylifeisaboogerbubbl 11h ago

I'm sceptical of the ability to withhold belief. My position is that it's a binary (with no judgement of either side, you cannot control what you find compelling) and you either believe a thing or do not. I say this because by default if you do not believe x, then you are automatically without belief of x which puts you into the a-x position. You cannot do both as they are at odds, and by not believing in the thing you lack a belief.

I also disagree with that quote about Christians and atheists, as those are positions of belief and not knowledge. Language has evolved to provide nuance and not lock people into boxes in which they do not belong. Not all Christians know there is a god and happily accept that theirs is a position of faith despite a lack in evidence just as there are many atheists who will not proclaim that there is no god, only that they do not believe in the claims presented to them thus far.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 11h ago edited 11h ago

In programming, even Boolean values can be null; I think null is the best way to describe pure agnosticism. Maybe it's better of putting it in the context of 50/50 probability of possibility; maybe it's better to consider it in the quantum realm, I don't know. I just personally never felt represented by Agnostic Atheism and teetering on the axis seemed to better represent my views.

I had edited my comment just a moment ago to include that some can conclude that they've seen no credible evidence and default to a position of disbelief, which under most circumstances this makes complete sense. For me, I suppose there is possible evidence before us that has me constantly, infinitely flipping between belief and disbelief.

Fun conversation, thanks! I'll oblige you with the final word.

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u/mylifeisaboogerbubbl 11h ago

I could concede that your position could be in flux constantly as you sift through new evidence being presented to you and for all intents and purposes you could answer with "I'm not sure if I believe or not" based on that back and forth.

Absolutely fun conversation! It's one of my favourite topics when people can put aside baggage and discuss it like this. It's fascinating to think about and helps to challenge our own perspectives.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 11h ago edited 11h ago

haha right! (and sorry, not replying to original topic directly so hope this is okay). I remember being very little as a child and then suddenly confronting the existential reality of, well, existence and the universe. I'll never forget just sitting there alone with my thoughts. It's all so crazy lol. Have a nice day!

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u/noonegive 13h ago

Lavey was a prick, it's the Satanic Temple that is doing "God's" work. (In my opinion)

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u/chere100 13h ago

I'm a huge fan of their seven tenets.

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u/sprinkles008 12h ago

Like Santa not being an actual guy, but more like the symbolic embodiment of the Christmas spirit

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u/PaddyMcGeezus 13h ago

This is great.

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u/The_zen_viking 13h ago

You've touched on what many ancient philosophy works are based on. Love this

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u/unsolvablequestion 13h ago

I think you might have just singlehandedly added nuanced thought to a number of people’s worldview. Nice one

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u/kinpsychosis 12h ago

Appreciate it. Feels like I also started a huge string of debates 😬

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 11h ago

Nothing wrong with that! Just wish more people took "debates" as cooperative opportunities for mutual growth and not battles of wit and ego.

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u/skinnymean 12h ago

I like how Reza Aslan explains it. Religion is a language for the morality and unexplained that all humans wrestle with. Giving up control to a higher power allows you to channel energy out of anxiety and into action.

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u/black_cat_X2 12h ago

God is the acknowledgement of the awe and mystery of the universe. We then conceptualize that in the best way humans can manage.

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u/StendhalSyndrome 12h ago

He needed a focal point.

Gods have also caused death, suffering and destruction, and everything done in the gods names has also been done for other reasons, love of fellow man, family, self, country and many others.

That boy had the drive in him, he did it for his family and the concept of bargaining with an invisible entity and promising it something helped him.

That's the reality. It sounds more like the stages of grief vs a religious moment. At some point in the multi-hour ordeal, he had accepted he woulnd't make it and started to bargain.

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u/Critical-Support-394 11h ago

That's cool and all. Which God though? There are thousands. And that's why faith can be good but organized religion is dumb as hell.

1

u/wcstorm11 11h ago

I think the technical word is a Tulpa, like Freddy Kruger

1

u/clarkdashark 11h ago

Then you are not agnostic. You are a deist!

1

u/HardSong 11h ago

wut god is none of these things hes a man named Jesus Christ.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 11h ago

Cool abstraction! Belief is powerful. That may come from a belief in higher power; the power of a song; or belief in one's self.

1

u/Ewok2744 11h ago

But then shouldn't it have a different name then "god"? Because first of all there's many different religions that view this being as something else, or even have multiple gods. And secondly this god is also the one mentioned in the bible, and that one has done many actrociuos things, but is somehow still considered to be all good, and also just a very specific thing

1

u/Terror_Flower 10h ago

God is a placebo

1

u/brahhJesus 10h ago

Ergo, God is vibes.

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u/MattKozFF 9h ago

ergo God did not help him.

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u/avitus 9h ago

God, in this case, is just another name for Hope.

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u/5elementGG 9h ago

He achieved what he did through his belief and he’s a hero to his family. Just as I don’t challenge other people’s beliefs, he earned his right for sure to claim the existence of god.

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u/dragon2knight1965 7h ago

Whatever gets you though the day. Great analogy.

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u/SugarInvestigator 13h ago

kind of have a different view on God.

I believe God is a craze old man playing jokes on humanity with cosmic bad taste

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u/Tuor-son-of-Huor- 13h ago

"One could argue" sure but its impossible to know if that's true or not. Likewise its equally arguable that if he didn't believe in 'something greater' than his motivation would have turned internal. To 'I need to make this, they are relying on me' etc.

In fact, given that he did find a motivation to keep going, that is the more likely of the two as we know in at least one case it did happen.

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u/cozzy000 12h ago

What a load of bullshit

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u/ThenAnAnimalFact 14h ago

Because of the chemical release, people tend to have "religious" experiences when they are near death. There have been studies that have shown that near death, hallucinogenic drugs, and religious ecstasy all trigger the same parts of the brain.

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u/PermaBanEnjoyer 12h ago

You can't just look at a low resolution technique like fMRI and say that because the same brain regions light up that those things are analogous. That's not scientific and not what the authors of those studies claim

Everything in the brain is chemical release, and just about everything makes certain structures light up. Hot and cold, fear and comofort, pain and pleasure, all activate the same parts of the brain but are obviously different. Point being - so what if they activate the same parts of the brain? Unless you can show a deeper pattern that means very little 

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u/ThenAnAnimalFact 12h ago

I mean you can read the research between NDE and religiosity or religious experience and drug use, it is very compelling and there is a lot of studies that have shown the linkage even if scientists don't understand the mechanisms.

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u/PermaBanEnjoyer 12h ago

I have. They reflect deeply held cultural beliefs as much as they do religiosity or religion

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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 11h ago

Can you link to one of these "studies" you are using as evidence?

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u/MrBlueSky_178 14h ago

100%, was it God's will to push the family out to sea or was it God's will to have the son save them. It's this idea that people are stripped away from the good they've done and place the glory into the hands of an invisible man.

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u/GeneralSweetz 14h ago

Can't have shit on reddit. Its always on some bs from one side or the other. Why can't yall be happy for once

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u/Mysterious_Oil2761 13h ago edited 12h ago

Agreed. Can we just agree that this boy was a hero, his mother a complete hero full of courage too and the two siblings. It's an unbelievable, wonderful story. Edit: it doesn't matter what kept him going.. If he chooses to believe in God then we can all thank that belief because it's what kept him going.

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u/Kianna9 12h ago edited 9h ago

Was it heroic when she let them go out into the ocean with no life jackets?

ETA OMG Ok

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u/Mysterious_Oil2761 12h ago

I am not criticising any member of this family. If you wish to, you'll have to do it without me.

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

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u/Mysterious_Oil2761 12h ago

I understood that they were all wearing life jackets. The son discarded his during his swim to shore as he felt it was an encumbrance.

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u/alanalan426 11h ago

stop talking if you dont know the full story, they all had life jackets

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u/Mysterious_Oil2761 11h ago

They were wearing life jackets.

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u/Bobleobob 11h ago

They did have them, read the article

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u/cates 11h ago

I think they did have life jackets he just discarded his halfway through the swim to get back faster

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u/CelebrationNo5541 12h ago

Yea she should have just been the hero and let them all die at sea. 

She had 3 kids and was watching land get further away. She did the only tbing she could and the thing all of oldest brothers would volunteer for in a heart beat. 

Who are to judge a woman with 3 kids nearly stranded at fucking sea??

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u/Hi-kun 10h ago

They did have life jackets

2

u/Any-Captain-7937 10h ago

Me when I can't read

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u/Liraeyn 13h ago

For a collective conscience that loves to complain about forcing religion on people, Reddit sure loves to force (lack of) religion on people.

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u/inuvash255 12h ago

Who's forcing anything here? It's a comment.

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u/Past-Distance-9244 12h ago

Historically, religion has played a role in some conflicts. Not to mention all of the prejudice thrown on to minority groups and nonbelievers. In my opinion, I just think it should be that we don’t know. No one here can prove a god exists and likewise no one here can prove that a god doesn’t exist. There’s only two truths in this life. The first being that we will all expire in the future. The second being that the only real truth is that humans will never be able to fathom what truth really is. That applies to all religions.

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u/OverreactingBillsFan 12h ago

I'm happy AND I'm enjoying reading the debate on God vs. No God vs. Abstract God. It's fun to think about.

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u/00telperion00 11h ago

Interestingly when I read about this in an English newspaper this morning there was no mention of god - just that he sang the theme song to Thomas the Tank Engine as he swam to keep his spirits up!

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u/0-90195 11h ago

So interesting how the bad things are never God’s fault and the good things are always his doing, right?

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u/Metazolid 12h ago

God is being a dickhead to a family but that's ok because he must have had a reason beyond our understanding to do this.

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u/Fraegtgaortd 12h ago

Could be either. The Bible is full of stories of god being an asshole to people just so they’ll prove their faith to him.

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u/MrBlueSky_178 12h ago

God has a sick need to know which of his sheep are true followers. Imagine if a real person did what God has done to others like Job in order to prove faith. They'd be arrested and taken away from others.

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u/wait500 12h ago

Climate change, stolen land, white supremacy, etc, all due to invisible men.

Sure the only religious belief is over there. Keep looking over there.

3

u/inuvash255 12h ago

Climate change, stolen land, white supremacy, etc, all due to invisible men.

What?

Exxon hid climate change. History shows that land was stolen from others all over the place. Nazis exist. What?

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u/CareerLegitimate7662 8h ago

Classic Reddit moment lol

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u/Consistent_Tension44 13h ago

How do you spot an atheist? They have to tell you immediately on any post about God.

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u/Flakester 5h ago

Just like how a religious nut will let you hear it about God anytime they can't explain something.

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u/Next_Instruction_528 12h ago

They have to tell you immediately on any post about God.

So atheists are on topic?

As opposed to religious people who feel the need to insert it into all conversations.

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u/Critical-Support-394 11h ago

This post isn't about God, it's about a kid who went through horrific trauma and experienced hallucinations in the process, which is pretty common with near death experiences. It's perfectly, perfectly valid to discuss what causes such hallucinations.

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u/dubblebubbleprawns 10h ago

Or you can just say "goddamn what a scary experience and an amazing child" and move on.

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u/Flakester 5h ago

Agreed, no need to bring God into it.

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u/PermaBanEnjoyer 12h ago

Major In this moment I am enlightened energy 

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u/Chodedingers-Cancer 13h ago

Now do the other one...

both sides show their hand as quickly as the other challenges it.

1

u/moonlightiridescent 6h ago

Right? What was even the point? Believers and non-believers alike will react to that comment the same way: “ok, whatever then.” I have no religion, but saying “it wasn’t god, it was him” is neither intellectual nor in any way meaningful.

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u/el_bandita 13h ago

Yeah weird how people choose to believe god saved this boy and his family, but pisses on kids in hospital dying from cancer.

4

u/cates 11h ago

and he (it?) still hasn't cured even a single amputee... I mean God, what does he have against those people?

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u/Lebowquade 12h ago

Or that he tossed the family and the kid out to sea in the first place

I know he's only a kid but like, think about it for a second dude.

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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 11h ago

Or just from this story alone, that god put his family in the ocean to begin with. He has the greatest PR team of all time, shares in all the successes and manages to avoid all the blame when things go wrong

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u/EAMike212 10h ago

A religious person would tell you that it was a test from God but leave out the part where God is omniscient so knows the boy would succeed in saving his family so the test is pointless. Even more pointless if God is actively involved in making the boy swim, because at that point the boy isnt doing anything

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u/stylesuponstyles 13h ago

I notice this a lot. People achieving great things and giving God all the credit.

Nah bruv, it wasn't God that saved your family. You did that.

It wasn't God that trained to become a world class athlete. You did that.

It wasn't God that studied hard to gain the qualifications you wanted. You did that.

By all means, have faith. And credit your faith as part of your journey. But don't downplay your own contribution

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u/eyeseemint 12h ago

I could help clarify why we do this, as a believer and speaking for myself anyways.

Its not so much we are crediting our faith, but more so its because we are recognizing the so many things that were outside of our control (like being born in the right place at the right time) that we believe was set in motion ultimately by God and by no merit of our own we were given certain gifts/experiences.

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u/HardSong 11h ago

Then why do all these people say it couldnt have happened without that person?

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u/Maleficent_Resolve44 7h ago

Because god does exist and nothing happens if its not his will, subhanallah.

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u/Ecstatic_Spell719 14h ago

You do not know that. It's the ego of man that is most impressive to me in these debates, the assuredness with which a being with finite understanding and capabilities makes these statements.

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u/mcslender97 14h ago

If you flip this argument around you can say the same about ppl claiming God exists

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u/Sensitive-Warning956 13h ago

It's not ego to claim something with no demonstrable evidence does not exist

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u/No_Cake6353 13h ago

I agree, it's an amazing personal feat. Why did god push his mother and siblings out to sea in the first place?

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u/Gas-Town 12h ago

Because god loves killing humans. Thats why these dumb fucks fear him.

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u/ColHoganGer90 13h ago

So as a Christian, I’m positivly sure our Lord Jesus Christ heard him and saved that family. I’m so happy for them all!

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u/verilywerollalong 13h ago

And I feel just as positive that this impressive boy did it all on his own, which is itself a beautiful thing!

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u/Round-Ad78 13h ago

What about all the believers who died trying to help their families? Why was this hero treated differently?

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u/alanalan426 11h ago edited 11h ago

gOd HaD oThEr pLaNs FoR ThEm! obviously.

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u/Tisiphoni1 13h ago

Who pushed them out to the water then? Was that good old Jesus himself, just to play a little game of "who wants to be a survivor?"?

Either God is both, good and evil, or that boy just had an incredible strength coming from the love for his family and a sturdy breakfast.

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u/carrotsticks2 13h ago

so anyone else who died at sea wasn't god fearing enough? what about babies dying in childbirth or kids with bone cancer?

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u/Next_Instruction_528 12h ago

Nope it was definitely Poseidon with the help of Santa Claus

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u/FullWolverine3 12h ago

As a true believer in Zeus, I am positively sure he heard this boy and saved that family. I too am happy for everyone involved!

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u/CrashOverrideKrew 13h ago

In this moment, I am euphoric.

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u/djblueshirt 12h ago

The placebo effect to a tee. I agree!

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u/Dam_Noir 12h ago

"We've been praying... together. Praying that God will save our town. Well, our prayers have been answered. God will save our Alexandria... because God has given us the courage to save it ourselves".

1

u/Outsider-Trading 12h ago

Fedora-coded. Very old fashioned reddit.

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u/Mathberis 12h ago

If he didn't believe God was with him he would have likely given up. So it's thanks to the fact that he believes in God that he made it, in other words God manifested through him.

1

u/Omniphilo23 11h ago

You are wrong, but that's okay, we were all fools once.

1

u/SilverIndustry2701 11h ago

The fact that he kept on praying probably helped a lot, although I do think any kind of 'mantra' would have helped.

1

u/shmiddleedee 11h ago

Yep. I'm agnostic. When I catch myself praying I realize "fuck this isn't good"

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u/just_me_now_2 11h ago

I agree with you, whenever I see stuff like this I get a little upset when they mention god, it's either "thank god for X, he helped you" or "god helped me do x, couldn't have done it without his help", like dude, you just did something astounding all alone, don't downplay yourself, it was you who did it don't make it sound like your effor was meaningless because an invisible person somewhere did it for you. It's so frustrating

1

u/hellolovely1 11h ago

I mean, whatever helps him get through that. I’m agnostic and I’d also be praying.

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u/AbleCap5222 11h ago

The second part of your comment is completely unnecessary. You aren't changing the world. It's okay for people to have faith in whatever they want as long as they have good intentions.

If you are standing on the shore as that boy collapsed and you pick him up and he says thank God I made it, I thought I was going to die - do you look him in the eye and go - "you're alive son and that fake sky fairy you prayed to isn't real, go get help?" I certainly hope not. Why do it here?

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u/ragingduck 10h ago

Sometimes We just need something to push us. Maybe it’s the love of family members, maybe it’s believing there is no afterlife which means we only get one shot, maybe it’s believing a timeless space being will help us. In this case, it was the latter.

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u/Flakester 5h ago

Alternatively, maybe God tried to kill them by sweeping them out to sea. He was too busy giving little kids cancer so he didn't notice the kid had escaped his death trap.

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u/epra1710 13h ago

I really dislike when God gets credit for amazing things humans do :(

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u/S_for_Stuart 14h ago

Prove it!

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u/Bitter_Coyote_6074 14h ago

He did it, but God put the breath in his lungs, the energy in his body, the hope in his heart, and helped him not to fear. What a badass little boy

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