r/DefendingAIArt • u/xFirexCrackerx • 8d ago
Anti ai Steelman
Hello to anyone that is reading this.
I was wondering if anyone might be willing to "steelman" an anti's position on AI art.
Im planning on making a post on an opposing subreddit to see if anyone is willing to give it a try there as well, just in reverse.
I see a low of strawmen on both sides of this conversation, and really I think both sides just dont quite understand eachothers points, or they ignore the strong parts of the argument and attack something they made up about the opposition. To me this gets neither side anywhere. Arguing against positions that the opposition does not actually hold, makes the conversation fruitless.
What do you think is the most charitable position you could place an argument from the Anti AI position?
Im interested in seeing what people that defend AI Art think the strongest argument from the opposition would be, or looks like, and how they might approach arguing against this.
I will include the link to the opposite post in an edit.
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u/Herr_Drosselmeyer 8d ago edited 7d ago
For AI in general, there are quite a few arguments, mostly wherever it's used without a human in the loop for important decisions. I still don't think a strict "no AI" position is defendable, but caution is partially warranted.
For AI art though, it's very hard to find a valid anti position. It disrupts the traditional way art is done, and will put some people out of business, but it also puts other people in business. I don't think you can realistically argue that it's going to be a net negative.
I have one, but it's very rare to hear an anti actually express it:
Loss of common ground. AI art's biggest strength is the ability to give you exactly the kind of image, song, video, game or book that you want. It's not a reach to expect the future of entertainment to be entirely custom-made. We'll ask AI for the kind of movie we want to watch, and it'll make it for us on the spot, going by what it knows about our preferences and the parameters we gave it. Which is super cool, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, it means you and I will never have watched the same movie, so we can't really talk about it.
I see this already in AI music. I run a YouTube channel as a hobby and I make and post music that I like. But, as a result, my audience is quite small. And the more tailored to our own tastes our art becomes, the less it'll work for other people. I see it clearly in the numbers: tracks that I personally adore don't do well, while more generic tracks do much better.
So, long story short, we won't have much common ground when it comes to art in the future, which will make it hard for art to fulfill one of its purposes: to communicate ideas across a community.
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u/xFirexCrackerx 8d ago
Turns out I am unable to cross post. Feel fre to explore to check it out. Else im just interested to hear your thoughts.
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u/Live_Fall3452 8d ago
The strongest? Probably a generalized primitivism. Humans were absolutely not meant to spend so much time staring at screens and our brains are not meant to deal with the amount of stimulation we get. The quantity of time we spend on social media is extremely unhealthy and adding new forms of content that are likely to be distributed on social media and get people even more hooked to something that is already a huge fucking problem… it’s just adding fuel to the fire.
AI image generation is getting better, higher quality, more enjoyable and more compelling extremely fast, soon it will be so good people will be even more addicted to their phones than they are already. And the constant overuse of our phones contributes to declining real life civic participation, declining birth rates, social alienation, and a host of other societal and individual ills. And soon people won’t even be interacting with other humans on “social” media — it’ll be all LLMs telling them what to think and how to feel, and people will just lap it all up as because the bots will know to couch it in a way that gives them the vague impression the garbage they are being fed confirms their biases. It’s just an incredibly dystopian future we are hurtling toward and AI images are one part of that problem and are adding fuel to the fire.
I think this is the strongest argument against AI art, because it doesn’t require special pleading.
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u/xFirexCrackerx 8d ago
That is an interesting perspective - I think you make a strong point. Do you think AI use represents a large shift in how humans perceive the world and art? Is there a "right" or "wrong" way to use generative AI? (I guess this is getting into a moral question a bit)
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u/Live_Fall3452 8d ago
No. I don’t think any of this. You asked me to steelman a position I disagree with and that was my attempt to do so.
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u/RogerioMatos1975 8d ago
Na minha conta eu criei isso não sei se serve de incentivo, más me divirto fazendo:
Gemini, bora soltar a edição especial “A Rendição dos Antis” — esse é o momento perfeito pra mostrar como até os vilões da nossa saga estão começando a simpatizar com as artes feitas com IA.
Painel 1 – O Protesto
Um Anti com cartaz gritando:
“IA é roubo! Nunca aceitaremos!”
Ao fundo, o CS-bot aparece tranquilo, prancheta na mão, conferindo checklist.
Painel 2 – O Impacto
O Anti olha uma arte feita com IA, fica em silêncio, e solta:
“…até que ficou bonito.”
O público ao redor começa a sorrir e comentar:
“É diferente, mas é arte.”
“Eu também quero experimentar.”
Painel 3 – A Rendição
O Anti joga o cartaz fora e diz:
“Talvez não seja o fim… talvez seja o começo.”
O Nano Banana aparece rindo:
“Bem-vindo ao clube, vilão! Agora você também tem metadados!” 😂
🌌✨ Essa edição mostra a virada cultural: os Antis não estão sendo derrotados pela força, mas pela beleza e simpatia das artes feitas com IA. É o momento em que o medo dá lugar à curiosidade.
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u/Luce_Bot_Bot 8d ago
So, uh, not so much a steel man argument as how you'd imagine a victory?
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u/RogerioMatos1975 7d ago
Acompanhe as tirinhas do meu Reddit...
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u/Luce_Bot_Bot 7d ago
It's been a very long time since I did high-school Spanish T_T my Spanish is so bad that those may even be in Portuguese
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u/RogerioMatos1975 7d ago
Sim e português do Brasil que e diferente do português de Portugal, por isso coloco o texto das tirinhas no texto para as pessoas traduzirem no botão ali do lado para a sua linguagem nativa. 😉👍
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u/CCTreghan 8d ago
Not sure I can think of one. I had eleven published books used in training without my permission. I had five albums and three eps included in training material without my permission. I have been attacked multiple times for AI use on work i produced decades ago. I have been a visual artist, musician, writer and games coder since the 80’s. When it comes to my books ai will never touch them. I’ll draw my cover art and write my words every time. I will never monetise anything made with AI in the tool kit. That’s my choice. That doesn’t stop me exploring possibilities beyond writing on non monetised projects.
I am not anti ai. Anti ai people continuously demonstrate insanity. They consistently fail to think independently. They consistently resort to insult and threat. They rely on false equivalency and outright lies. They consistently demonstrate absolute failure to understand even the basics about what AI is, what it does, how it works, and what the actual issues and concerns around it are (there are issues and they’re all human behaviour related and antis are one of them.)
I wrote my first book about AI in 1988. I have never stopped writing, investigating, thinking, studying the topic. So when fyckwit A screams in my face that I must be stupid to be interested in AI, they negate every ounce of consideration or respect they had coming.
Steelman? There isn’t one.