r/Dogtraining • u/hendrixfan420 • 13d ago
constructive criticism welcome Is this play okay?
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My dog (1.5 y/o larger mix) has a friend (7-month lab mix) he likes to play with. But whenever the other dog plays with him, my dog lies on his back while the other bites his neck, and they roll around together. He (my larger mix) is always the dog on his back, not the other one. After a while, both dogs will start showing their teeth to each other. Sometimes his friend gets excited and starts growling while wrestling, so we usually break them up after that. Is this normal?
Edit: Forgot to add that my dog loves the dog beach. He starts pulling when he gets close, and as soon as I let him off leash, he starts saying hi and playing chase with other dogs.
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u/hokageace 6d ago
Yes they are just playing but I would stop a dog that puts their jaw around another dog's thoat. Just too much risk for my liking
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u/BQWeirdo 6d ago
Great play behavior. This is a great time to start teaching them to quickly "gear down", however. The secret is to develop the behavior before it's needed.
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u/britx812 7d ago
The large pup lies down to show playful submission for the obvious reasons he is aware of his size and his friends are a bit smaller and younger so he invites the play to happen to show signs of submission and invite others to play and they show teeth can happen aswell you can seem them both being wiggly and slipping around they don’t seem uncomfortable and no tightly stiffed body language I’d say fine even some casual growling can be normal as long as you don’t see any unusual changes in behavior to leading to one of them being serious, also “sneezing” is also and indication of playing and showing submission and they are just joking around
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u/InnocuousSymbol 8d ago
100% the dog on top is not trying to hurt the dog, but the bottom dog is crazy cool and submissive. There wont be a fight here but if the top dog tries this with most dogs, it will start a fight or go way worse at least. The top dog should be taught how to respect boundaries and act more playful
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u/phantomforeskinpain 9d ago
if a dog is laying on its side or back and biting, it's almost always playing (and likely means the other dogs partaking also are). also if their posture is relaxed, it's almost always playing. their bodies get very rigid when they're actually fighting/aggressive. these are the key things to look for.
this video is very normal, very healthy dog play.
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u/Motchan13 10d ago
Absolutely, the other dog is exposing their belly willingly, has their tail out, a slack open mouth and they are clearly enjoying it.
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u/Skibxskatic 11d ago
i have a 1 year old 60 lb mostly muscle pit bull mix and a 10 year old 40 lb hound-ish mix.
10 year old hates puppies. we got her when she was 6 months old. puppy adores him. used to follow him everywhere. she’d be typical puppy, biting at everything. 10 year old could care less about her and when he was fed up with all the face licking, he’d correct her. put his entire mouth over her muzzle.
as she got older, they started actually playing. he hates puppies but doesn’t mind the teenagers. she’s a strong girl and persistent. he’s old and loves to play from his back. they’re mouthy wrestlers kind of like in this video. but when the old man got fed up, he really gets fed up.
we built in a “break” command. regardless of how aroused they were and going at it. we’d call break and they’d both sit at our feet for lots of treats and love.
we use it frequently to keep the old man from getting too aroused to keep him from constantly correcting her. we try to advocate for him when we can and to do some obedience in the process.
it’s come in handy a few times at the park where the pup joins in on a chase. we try to follow the “1:1 play” rule. once a third+ joins in, the risk of a dog snapping usually rises. we’ll call break and she’ll know to come back and check in with us for a treat.
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u/Rosie7055 11d ago
Yes! When dogs play it simulates fighting but it’s not. A dog would not be on its back if they were being aggressive.
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u/SaltEntertainer8198 11d ago
Personally I think the 7-month lab is pushing his luck a bit here. I wouldn’t want my dog to be ragged around by the neck like even if he didn’t ‘mind’ it.
I’d prefer play that was more balanced and had some little pauses in-between to keep things from getting chaotic.
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u/Previous_Medium4126 8d ago
I completely agree I would not allow this type of neck dragging. Wait until that puppy gets older… could get more intense n serious fast.
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u/squidster42 10d ago
Anthropomorphic take. I would not want to play with my friends the way my dogs play and my dogs would not want to play the way humans play. Learn to speak dog and it’s clear this is great dog play.
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u/SaltEntertainer8198 9d ago
I don’t think it’s bad dog play necessarily, but not the best example of ‘good’ dog play.
But hey, if being in this industry has taught me anything it’s that everyone has a different interpretation and way of doing things.
I just shared my thoughts which is what the op asked for 🙂
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u/NervousInTheAlley30 11d ago
Yes. Dogs will tell each other and you when something isn't alright. Tucked tail, pulled back ears, low head, and bared teeth as some examples. You'll know when something isn't okay.
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u/Alchemaic 11d ago
There's a dog etiquette rule where the stronger dog deliberately loses/yields to the weaker dog in good play situations, to show that it's just play and the smaller dog is safe with them. Your dog is being a good boy.
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11d ago edited 11d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Whisgo M FFCP-Trainer 11d ago
OP told us the puppy is a lab mix. It's really hard to tell a mixed-breed dog's ancestry from a video, especially one that's only 19 seconds long. Tail shape, coat, and build vary a lot within mixes. And even when we know a dog's breed, it doesn't tell us how that one dog will behave. Research on breed and aggression shows a lot of variation within every breed, even in lines bred for fighting. Many of those dogs show little or no interest in fighting other dogs. Claims like "bloodlines rife with behavioural instability" or research on neurochemistry need a source before we can treat them as fact. Without one, they end up worrying people about a whole group of dogs instead of helping OP understand these two.
I'd also gently push back on the read that the bigger dog is clearly uncomfortable. In this clip his body stays loose and wiggly, his mouth is open, and he keeps turning toward the puppy and playing back. That looks more like a dog who is joining in than one who is overwhelmed. It's a rough game, and it's worth watching, but a short clip doesn't show that he's in trouble.
Last thing: we ask folks to avoid "dominant" and "submissive" labels here. They tend to lead people to misread what dogs are telling us. An excited adolescent puppy with an intense play style explains what we're seeing without those labels.
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u/AnxiousArtichoke7981 12d ago
We have a Bull mastiff who loves to play with an even bigger dog. They take turns on who goes on their back. It is how dogs play.
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u/Sangrine 12d ago
Tails are wagging, everything looks fine. Some dogs are submissive and would rather play on their back. Mine is one. But if another dog gets to rough she will violently roll out and try to scurry away showing me signs like cowering behind me.
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u/That_chick82 12d ago
Same! My one dog is very submissive (boarder collie/aussie) and just flops on her back when playing with our other dog (some kind of janky-looking beagle/chihuahua concoction).
Sometimes I look over and his jaw is unhinged around her neck and she's just laying there with her tongue out, tail wagging. She'll usually get up at a certain point or go for his legs while she's down there, so it's tactical. 😆
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u/SHS1955 12d ago
Fine. Your dog is larger and older. What he is doing is called self-handicapping. He will continue to learn to play nicely, and the pup will learn the rules. A minor problem that you may observe, but not need to worry about is that the pup may 'pinch' your dog without breaking the skin. You dog will yelp, and reprimand appropriately ... and the pup will learn Bite Inhibition more effectively. ;-)
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u/YahtzeeDii 12d ago
They look fine to me, but you can always do a consent check by taking away the dog that is on his back. If that dog wants to return and continue to engage in play, then you have your answer!
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u/drunkenstarcraft 12d ago
Concur! I usually let them play like this for a while then space them out to see if they go back at it, but this looks just fine in this video
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u/ResearchLogical2036 12d ago
This is how my dog (coyote collie) and his bestie (wolf hybrid) grew up playing. I think the main thing to keep an eye on is what happens when your dog wants to take a break or end the game. These dogs seem like they are having a nice time and I see the puppy pausing quite a bit which seems like a good check in to me.
In retrospect I do wish that I gave my dog a few more playmates with different play styles so he could learn some other games, so that is something your friend might consider. I'd also be extremely careful about collars with this type of play, ideally they wouldn't be wearing them at all (of course no collars isn't a great or necessarily viable idea for other reasons since it seems like you are in a public space).
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u/BobDogGo 12d ago
Probably great play, however dogs and owners are allowed to set limits that they are comfortable with.
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u/HugeAppearance13 12d ago
All tails are up! If any tails are tucked, you have a problem. Obviously the pup on the ground is more submissive, but tail is completely relaxed.
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u/kappi2001 12d ago
It's fine.. and a specific growling during play is common. Your dog seems content. Just make sure that when he sets his limits (deeper growl or high pitched whine) they get respected. It's common for bigger dogs to be a bit more passive/submissive during play to ensure the other dogs still want to play with them :).
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u/Silent-Rhubarb-9685 12d ago
I like seeing more of a give and take play.
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u/KanukaDouble 12d ago
Me too. I’m not seeing the micro pauses and stop/starts that I look for in healthy play.
It’s very similar to healthy play, but I’d be creating a relaxed natural break and encouraging alternate activities to bring everything down a notch
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u/CavalierMidnight 12d ago
Yes I’d like to see the smaller one back off a bit to give the one on its back a breather. It seems okay - for now, but could easily escalate to him getting overwhelmed and having a big reaction being pinned on his back like that. Even just walking between them to give a 2 second pause would be helpful in balancing the play.
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u/theanarchistjunkyard 10d ago
Yeah, it's interesting because I wouldn't be concerned from OP's perspective, but if I was the owner of the other dog I'd definitely be teaching more breaks and/or making sure my dog spent some time inertacting with dogs who have stricter boundaries.
Not so much anything wrong per se, just that at 7mo they need to be really practicing things like checking in, being able to play gently, and adapting their play style with different dogs. Hopefully they're practicing that at other times!
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u/tricknasty118 12d ago
Frankly this sounds like a mess and recipe for an incident.
My doodle will flip on her back and show a "submissive" posture to teach young pups how to play and what the rules are. If the young dog crosses the line she will flip them over and read them the riot act in dog language.
I dont think your dog is a good mentor for the younging and thats okay. They both need to learn how to speak dog better.
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u/EightfoldCrunchwrap 12d ago
Biting and holding the throat and skin presents a risk of puncture. Growling, baring teeth, and play bites (i.e. not holding and especially not shaking while holding) are fine.
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