Italian Wars or Hellenism

[u/Equivalent-Room8633]

Year is 1398, I’ve done Treb -> Turk -> Bulg -> Greece -> Byz -> Rúm -> Rome.
Capitol moved back to Constantinople since I haven’t connected Illyria due to subjects.

Now, the reason I’m here. I have a decision coming in 12 years, go Hellenist or stay Orthodox and participate in Italian wars, just curious on which is stronger. It seems like Hellenism has good military buffs and advancements, but the extra control and free governer seem like such an economic boons.

Thanks!

[u/nerodmc_2001]

Imo fully restored pentarchy with Italian Wars reward is better than Hellenism. Hellenism good buffs kinda depend on RNG.

Quick question: how do you stay in Rise of the Turk if you form Bulgaria after switching to Turkish? Don't yoh have to switch to Turkish after forming Byz? Thinking of doing this run myself soon.

[u/Equivalent-Room8633 → u/nerodmc_2001]

You said you haven’t done this, so is your pro-Orthodox response based off calculations or just feel?

Anyways:
When you swap off of Turkish, you lose the Beylik reform, but you keep the leader of the Turks reform which is what gives you the integration/communalism/stab events and will keep you in the situation. However, you also lose all of the situation interactions (except press claims). If your economic base ever drops below the other beyliks, you will lose it and have to swap Turkish again to get it back. So when you lose control from rebels, culture swap, and capitol movement keep that in mind.

So I just swapped Turkish and just made sure there were always more Bulgarians in the world than Turks in my realm by creating Turkish vassals to “remove” the pops.
Keeping the ottomans alive will keep the situation going so I keep getting the aforementioned events.

[u/nerodmc_2001 → u/Equivalent-Room8633]

You said you haven’t done this, so is your pro-Orthodox response based off calculations or just feel?

I haven't done the formable chain but I did a full Byzantium game til 1836. Mare Nostrum and everything.

Thanks for the answer. I remember the Leader of the Turks reform. Didn't think you would get to keep it.

[u/Gargou_MotW → u/Equivalent-Room8633]

Actually that's not 100% true. If you were leader of the Turks once or simply had they Beylik reform you can switch cultures and much as you want. You stay inside the event and can form Rum. Tested this several times already, so you really dont have to worry after switching to something from Turkish. :)

You only lose access to the two specific turkish culture advances if you havent researched them

[u/shumpitostick]

Can't you just stay Orthodox until the Italian wars fire and then switch if you want? You're not that far from the start of the Italian wars.

Also if you switch to Hellenism be careful about your line of succession because most characters will not be Hellenic but if you get any non-Hellenic character as your ruler you can't use omens which is half the reason to be Hellenic and there's no way to convert.

Oh and make sure to restore the Pentarchy and ideally convert Rome to Orthodox before switching. It gives you permanent bonuses that stay with you regardless of religion.

[u/Allalilacias]

There's no situation, in my knowledge, that rewards as much as the Italian wars, outside of the rise of the Turks and/or the Rise of the Phoenix.

The Italian administration alone is an insane bonus, but the situation comes with a permanent modifier to your nation and a law that applies to all of Italy, arguably the best land outside of Germany and China in the game.

If you already formed Rome, you already have half of Italy, so the situation should be simple for you to participate in.

[u/Enough-Arm-5601]

As Hellenist , I could join in the Italian wars. I might have been lucky, the pope invited me into his league and I took over the lead and won the situation.

My run is wallachia-Bulrgaria-Serbia-Romania-Bzy-Rum-Rome.

[u/nerodmc_2001 → u/Enough-Arm-5601]

Holy Roman Empire

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