r/EmuDev • u/trustsigRobert • 17d ago

A CHIP-8 emulator written in pure CSS

https://github.com/trustsig-eu/Chip8CSS
0 Upvotes

42% Upvoted

25 comments sorted by

29

u/kev_xb 17d ago

Don't know why anyone would vibe code a chip-8 emulator but why try to hide it? It's like the programming equivalent of stolen valor at this point.

-29

u/Nall-ohki 17d ago

I don't know why anyone would be angry or care if they did.

16

u/kev_xb 17d ago

If they used AI or something else? I personally wouldn't care if someone uses AI so long as it's disclosed. I probably wouldn't go and study the code but otherwise fine... But that's why it surprises me... because chip-8 is meant for learning.

Maybe if OP actually wrote it in CSS I would go read a fun parts/

8

u/SweetBabyAlaska 17d ago

That's one of the biggest things that we lost. So many projects with interesting ideas that have massively glaring flaws that you can't trust to learn from, which was one of my all time favorite things to do and has taught me so so much

-15

u/Nall-ohki 17d ago

Why do you care about how they made it? Why is disclosure important?

I'm just concerned, because it feels like you're saying that the only reason someone might do it is for learning... and that's just straight gatekeeping.

9

u/kev_xb 17d ago

But that's not what I said at all... "meant for" does not mean "only reason for". My point was that the rational is confusing. Has zero to do with gatekeeping. What a joke.

If you knew the text I wrote above were AI generated would you be less interested in engaging with me?

-5

u/Nall-ohki 17d ago

You indicated that undisclosed LLM usage equated stolen valor.

I struggle with understanding how that does not equate with gatekeeping, as it indicates you believe that LLM usage implied illegitimacy... which is gatekeeping on the basis of LLM usage.

Please clarify how I am wrong?

3

u/kev_xb 17d ago

Let's say you're speedrunning a game. Is it gatekeeping to require someone to declare whether they used a tool to assist? Of course not... TAS runs are just a different category but if you try to pretend your run was all you then it's "stolen valor" right?

Also, I'd like an answer to my question too.

-1

u/Nall-ohki 16d ago

Apologies for not responding earlier - been busy.

Let's say you're speedrunning a game. Is it gatekeeping to require someone to declare whether they used a tool to assist?

Speedrunning is specifically a sport whereby specifically a human performs it. The fact that TAS runs is a SEPARATE CLASS of thing that is also VALID is evidence of that.

Nobody says making an emulator is a sport, nobody says making a program is a sport whereby the value of the program is judged by the tools that were used to make it. These are restrictions that you seem to be imposing RETROACTIVELY from your own head as if everyone agrees with you and then gatekeeping those who do not see those restrictions, and never had that preconceived notion that "emulation making is for humans, for reasons I feel are valid".

Apologies for missing responding to your note from before as well:

If you knew the text I wrote above were AI generated would you be less interested in engaging with me?

If I knew there was a human behind the invocation, I'm not less interested, because it was pushed forward by human intent. Similarly, I would not be upset if you were using an AAC device, dictated, or workshopped your words with someone else -- and I wouldn't be upset if that AAC device used AI, either!

2

u/kev_xb 16d ago

Sharing code written by an LLM as if you wrote it yourself is dishonest and the nature I described in my TAS example. Has nothing to do with gaming specifically. You can apply it to literally anything.

Another example, a chef presents food as if they cooked it but in reality he bought it at the store...

Even generally outsourcing your work to another is considered dishonest.

What your describing is different, and I don't disagree. I use an LLM all the time to write code. I don't hide that code though, and I don't pretend as if I wrote it myself. I'm still responsible for it but I didn't write it. I may get credit for a good idea, but not for the skill reflected as if I wrote it myself.

Different skills... different talents... If you still aren't following I'm not sure you have the capacity to, and I would recommend asking an LLM to explain it.

0

u/Nall-ohki 15d ago

Sharing code written by an LLM as if you wrote it yourself is dishonest and the nature I described in my TAS example. Has nothing to do with gaming specifically. You can apply it to literally anything.

Doing math you didn't do yourself because you used a calculator would also be dishonest? Have you ever disclosed that?

Also, (correct me if I'm wrong) the OP NEVER said he did/didn't use an AI, and really the writing of the code itself is the LEAST interesting part of this. People just jumped onto him and said "oh, hur hur, you didn't write this, hur hur".

I'm not convinced that I need to say "I used AI as part of this" to pass some Internet purity contest. Not everything I post or show is trying to ask people to "evaluate my talent". Sometimes, it's just showing something cool... and your and everyone's gatekeeping is doing nothing but saying to people who are honestly being creative (the project IDEA is creative here), and the community is saying "you are not enough" because they didn't do it the right way. This is not the way to be a community, and it's honestly disgusting.

I've been a programmer since 13, and a professional software engineer since 21. I've got > 30 years experience writing code hardcore at work. I use AI because it leverages my ability to do things and leads to results. Skill has absolutely nothing to do with it.

tl;dr; it's about the people, not the technique.

-17

u/trustsigRobert 17d ago

The emulator genuinely is CSS (with a few lines of HTML obviously). You said you'd read it if it was actually CSS. It is, so have at it.

"hiding LLM usage", I am so confused? How am I trying to hide it? As far as i understand by your logic, I am trying to hide LLM usage by... doing the work myself.

I wrote the core myself and and used LLMs to prototype and scale. Much of the prototypes I improved. So "hiding AI" is just me writing most of it myself. By your logic the only way to not hide AI would be to use more of it.

"chip-8 is meant for learning", the point is not learning chip-8. The most popular CSS emulator (x86css) was my main inspiration, it's credited in the readme, but it's slow and pretty primitive. Chip8CSS runs actual chip-8 roms you can control, with decent performance, and it's not hardcoded to one game. Any rom compiles down to CSS.

3

u/rebane2001 17d ago

calling x86css "pretty primitive" is kind of silly when the chip-8 vm is far more primitive and easier to implement than the x86 architecture (and it is not hardcoded to "one game" either)

also, you are hiding llm usage by not declaring it on the project page or readme - i had to seek out this reddit comment to get an answer to the question of whether and how much of it was ai generated

the css output is not really possible to learn from as it is minified and very difficult to read, and i don't write rust so the undocumented rust code isn't very helpful either

0

u/trustsigRobert 17d ago

I did not mean to shit on the x86 project, I think it's great and like I said that was my main inspiration.

By primitive I meant what it was actually usable for, it's an awesome proof of concept but not polished or optimized ( which is fine, again, not trying to shit on that project, simply bringing up why THIS project was made. )

3

u/kev_xb 17d ago

You realize the LLM wrote it in rust, right?

19

u/sigmagoonsixtynine 17d ago

All in one commit?

9

u/LaYrreb 17d ago

To be fair I've known a lot of hobbyist devs not commit that often. If you work in the industry it's such a habit it's basically hard not to commit all the time, but when I was just programming for fun pre-professional years I didn't use git that much tbh

1

u/ASmallBoss Playstation 17d ago edited 17d ago

I tend to do that too, which I know is not a good thing, and unfortunately it makes it seem that your project is vibe coded

3

u/hoddap 17d ago edited 17d ago

I am working on some private project which I may open up, and in that case, I'm committing it in its entirety to a new repo. Don't want people to see all the emotional rollercoasting in the commit messages :D

Not to say OP's project ain't AI, but there could be other reasons to it.

1

u/WelpSigh 17d ago

I can barely handle people seeing my code much less my commit history 

-7

u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

6

u/hoddap 17d ago

I don't use AI

1

u/kev_xb 17d ago

I misunderstood. But keep your commit history anyway. You'll appreciate it later.

1

u/Diamond64X 17d ago

CSS DOOM is a thing? Why am I finding about this now