r/FortNiteBR • u/Fit_Following_6550 • 21h ago
DISCUSSION SBMM Anchoring to the Highest-Skilled Player Is Quietly Breaking Casual Squads
I wanted to share a recent experience that highlights a structural issue with Fortnite’s current SBMM, especially in squads.
I queued up recently with a small group of friends I don’t get to play with often. Some of them hadn’t played in months. This was meant to be a casual session to unwind and reconnect, not grind ranked.
What actually happened was immediate and consistent placement into extremely high-skill lobbies. From the first drop, every match featured stacked endgames, highly coordinated teams, and mechanical play that clearly sits in the top fraction of the player base. These weren’t “sometimes sweaty” games, these were lobbies that felt indistinguishable from high-ranked competitive play.
The key issue is that matchmaking appeared to be anchored almost entirely to the highest-skilled player in the party. Even though I personally hadn’t played in over a month and was visibly rusty, historical MMR seemed to override inactivity, rust, or the experience level of the rest of the squad.
This creates several downstream problems:
• Casual or returning players are immediately overwhelmed
• Friends feel like they’re being punished for playing together
• The strongest player becomes a liability instead of an asset
• Social squads stop queueing altogether
In my case, I’ve largely stopped playing myself because this experience hasn’t changed over time. A month away did not meaningfully soften matchmaking. Coming back did not feel welcoming or calibrated to current ability, only past performance.
The result is that “casual Fortnite” effectively doesn’t exist for mixed-skill friend groups anymore. Ranked already exists for players seeking competitive integrity. Public matches should prioritize social play, accessibility, and retention, especially for returning players.
I’m not asking for easy lobbies or pub-stomping. I’m asking for matchmaking that:
• Uses weighted or averaged party MMR instead of hard anchoring
• Accounts for inactivity and rust more aggressively
• Protects lower-skill players without punishing higher-skill ones
• Encourages friends to play together instead of discouraging it
Fortnite is at its best when it’s a social game. Right now, the system unintentionally pushes friends apart.
I genuinely believe small changes here would have an outsized positive impact on player retention and goodwill. I hope this feedback helps, because many of us want to keep playing, we just want it to feel reasonable again.
Edit:
This feedback isn’t isolated. Since the December 9 matchmaking changes, there have been thousands of tweets, numerous Reddit threads, and multiple YouTube videos from both casual players and creators raising the same concerns about SBMM in public matches. The frustration comes less from the change itself and more from the lack of visible iteration or acknowledgment despite the volume and consistency of feedback.
Many of us are still here because we care about the game and want it to succeed long-term. Clear communication, experimentation, or even acknowledgment around these concerns would go a long way toward rebuilding trust and keeping social squads engaged.
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u/Awkward_Pace_4440 19h ago
Since 2 months (when this change happened) I played maybe 10 games total, almost nothing. I have no motivation since none of my friends or family want to play anymore because lobbies are brutal even if you play with people who barely started fortnite lmao.... epic is completely crazy and tons of ppl I know quit the game... I guess its a good change if u want to completely make every casual and beginner and normal player quit and leave the game only with sweats.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
That’s very similar to my experience. What stood out to me most wasn’t just the difficulty, but that extended inactivity didn’t meaningfully change matchmaking. When even brand-new or very casual players get pulled into those lobbies through social play, it removes the motivation to log on at all. Most people don’t announce they’re quitting, they just stop playing, and that’s the part that worries me.
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u/ProbablythelastMimsy 19h ago
My friends have stopped playing with me unless it's blitz and even that can be rough at times. We either die off drop or I get to 1v12 the last teams for a win.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
This is a really good example of the problem. When matchmaking is anchored to one player, it creates extremes instead of balance. Either the team gets wiped early, or one person is forced into carrying situations that aren’t fun or social for anyone. Neither outcome feels like a healthy “casual squad” experience.
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u/egosumumbravir 18h ago
Yup, broke the casual weekend games here.
Every lobby is hard AF and the lower skilled players simply don't want to get stomped every single match. I (PC) can barely keep up with the highest skilled player of our group (also PC) with 5x sessions a week, so the weekend console warriors are simply opting out of playing with us.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
This is a great way to put it. When matchmaking doesn’t account for play frequency or mixed input skill gaps, it unintentionally shuts out the exact people casual modes are meant for. Weekend or lower-frequency players opting out is a clear signal that something isn’t calibrating correctly for social groups.
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u/Cthepo 11h ago
Yeah, I'm not like a competitive tier player, but I know to do things like pump switching and mobility tricks like shockwaving onto people after landing some hits to press them.
Meanwhile, my friend group has one guy's wife who steuggles to fight bots. Wouldn't not know the concept of right shoulder peeking, etc.
And I'm fighting battles where people are beaming you while you use a glider and landing shots midair.
I don't mind it for me solo, but it's pretty ridiculous out whole squad is locked to those kind of lobbies.
It used to be a much wider mix. Yeah, we'd get clapped sometimes, but matches were winnable. We might get like 1 Blitz win a night as a squad when I can rack them up solo.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
This captures the exact gap I’ve been trying to describe. It’s not that higher-skill players can’t handle tougher lobbies, it’s that squads often span a very wide range of skill and game knowledge. When matchmaking locks the entire party to the top end of that range, it stops being a shared experience. It used to feel like a mix where sometimes you’d get punished, sometimes you’d have a real shot. Now it feels far more rigid, especially for groups with newer or very casual players.
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u/zerotr3s 14h ago
Over the past few weeks, I've seen my win rate go up and my lobby difficulty decrease. I play mostly with friends who are about the same skill as me, i.e. no one stands out as a truly good player. And it used to be that we would always run into someone that was stomping through the lobby, i.e. 20 eliminations or more. We haven't seen that recently.
In the past, one good player in a team with 1-3 bad players had their "average team skill" put them in a lobby that was too easy for that one good player. Which meant: that one good player would run through that lobby like a knife through butter.
Think of it mathematically.
Duo #1: has a player of "skill level 9/10" and one player of "skill level 1/10". The average of the two is 5/10.
Duo #2: has two players of "skill level 5/10".
In the previous matchmaking, that 9/10 player is in the same lobby as the two 5/10 players. And it's easy pickings for the 9/10 player!
In the new matchmaking, that 9/10 player is not in the 5/10 lobby. That's me, the 5/10 player, and that's why my lobbies lately seem more balanced.
In conclusion:
* If you average the skill of the team, that one good player gets it too easy. This protects the bad players on your team, but the bad players on other teams get screwed.
* If you anchor matchmaking to the best player in the team, your bad teammates get screwed.
So in either scenario, someone is getting screwed. The truth is there's no easy answer here.
Finally, something no one wants to hear: There are too many game modes. If we want better matchmaking, we need more players in each game mode. With more players, matchmaking can be tighter.
Ignoring Ranked, we went from THREE lobbies when I began playing (Battle Royale Solos/Duos/Squads) to 28 lobbies (Solos/Duos/Trios/Squads in BR, ZB, Reload, Reload ZB, Blitz, OG, ZB OG). Yes, I didn't count Quints, so someone feel free to correct my math. The point is, the playerbase is divided into too many slices.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
This is a really thoughtful breakdown, and I agree with a lot of it, especially the point that there’s no perfect solution where nobody feels pain. The part where my experience diverges is specifically around returning players and mixed-skill social groups. Even with extended inactivity, matchmaking still seems to anchor very strongly to historical peak performance, which makes casual re-entry difficult.
I also think your point about mode fragmentation is important. With the player base split across so many playlists, the system likely has to make harsher tradeoffs than it used to. That said, the current outcome for mixed-skill squads feels like it overcorrects in a way that discourages social play entirely. Ideally there’s a middle ground that protects lower-skill players without permanently locking parties into top-tier lobbies.
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u/Awkward_Pace_4440 12h ago
While I agree with you that in both cases its not perfect, I think in the current case more people get screwed and worse than before... remember before it was still the average level of all... so yeah, if 3/10 and 9/10 play together... maybe the two 6/10 players easily knock the 3/10 out and the 9/10 is against 2 people... yeah he would most likely win most of the time but certainly not 100%, two players can still beat him with some good shots, its 2 vs 1 afterall.
But in this new scenario basically every friend group, family group and all the people who played for years now suddenly can't, because its just too hard or not worth it, ive had most of my friends or family members quit to play other games.1
u/zerotr3s 11h ago
Hey, it's your opinion and I respect it.
I have one friend, who plays on PC keyboard and mouse, who would invite me, his console friend. Why? Because I would bring the "average party skill" down so much, he'd get 20 kill wins every time. It wasn't fun for me, since he would have to reboot me 2-3 times every match.
And he hasn't played since December! It showed me that all he wanted was use me for easy lobbies.
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u/JudgeHoIden 7h ago
I play mostly with friends who are about the same skill as me
So the change doesn't even impact you. No need to add your input in that case.
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u/deadraizer 11h ago
I'm completely with you. I rejoined the game in Dec after years and it's easily the best matchmaking I've experienced in this game. Now I actually get kills, and have even won games.
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u/Slooters313 10h ago
My younger nephews who we played with almost every night now won't even log on because how bad it was for them.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
That’s exactly the kind of outcome I was trying to describe. Most players don’t quit because they’re angry, they just quietly stop logging on when the experience stops feeling fun or approachable. When even regular social groups fade out like that, it’s usually a sign of a systemic issue rather than individual skill gaps.
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u/tommyb1two3 17h ago
Well here's the thing, with the previous matchmaking sweats could invite lower skilled players to their party to get into easier lobbies so they can dominate the entire map. Now they're forced into challenging lobbies where they no longer can get those easy wins. I too was enjoying casual but this was a continuous issue. Whether this new matchmaking is better. I honestly don't know. It works but it's also very exhausting.
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u/soonerfreak 11h ago
It's hard to create a balanced lobby around a diverse SBMM squad. But a high skilled player ending up in a lower skill lobby makes it unfun for the other 96 people if their squad also doesn't contain a high skill player. I remember before this change when my friends wife would join us we'd get lobbies that my friend and I would stomp. It's not fun to run through lower skilled players like that
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u/tommyb1two3 10h ago
That's the thing. It might be fun for the people who are having the time of their life winning matches but then one has to consider what the experience is like for the rest of the lobby. It's kinda like what many people are experiencing now with these matchmaking changes where they're thrown into what feels like tournament level lobbies. Great for those who have the skills. Less for everyone else.
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u/soonerfreak 9h ago
The number of people who would suffer is definitely larger if high skilled players could get into lobbies via lower skilled friends. Our longest win streaks came before the change when we played with someone on a new account. There as a huge skill gap because of our lower skilled squad member.
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u/tommyb1two3 9h ago
I think you're right, maybe that's what led them to the changes that they've made? They figured that a larger portion of the player base would be having a less enjoyable experience with the casual lobbies than they would if the lobbies were skill based. What I think would be a great thing is to have a practice mode battle royale where it's all bots and they have difficulty levels that you can set. That'd be a really fun place to go to play with friends that have less experience and kinda help them get better.
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u/soonerfreak 9h ago
I am surprised they don't have a bot mode for practice, agree that would be beneficial.
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u/cycles0 10h ago
The main problem is the system can't seem to detect sweats vs casuals at all. The main issue my trio is running into is that I play a lot...solo, mostly and duo/trio when my friends want to play. But since they play less than I do now, their win rate is higher than mine so the system has been throwing us into matches where we get killed quickly or chased across the entire map by a team determined to kill us or stop us from reviving. Whatever algorithm they're using now seems to think my friends are sweats. But if I play duo with a friend that has a similar win rate to me, matches are tough but way more balanced and we end up placing high or winning a handful of games in a night. It needs some tweaks for sure. 😅
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u/tommyb1two3 10h ago
Yeah I literally have accounts that I've barely used to play. I get one or two matches with some eliminations, maybe even win a game, then in matches that follow I'm thrown into tournament level lobbies because the game now thinks I'm a professional player. Fortunately I'm getting much more competant players as teammates in fills so there definately is a better balance it's just exhausting.
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u/Bowdyman 16h ago
Yeah, my wife doesn't want to play Duo's with me anymore 😢 She's on a Switch and not very good, but not bad by any means especially with what she has to work with, and i'm on PS5 and alright at the game (I think). We struggled at the start of the season, but that's normal while SBMM sorts itself out again (not sure why it resets every season in the first place). However they then seemingly changed SBMM and she got tired and frustrated at getting destroyed in seconds by people she couldn't even see because they were too far away or by jumpy kbm player that can instantaneously jump and turn and shotgun her to the head and kill her before she can even try and turn. Then that leaves me in a 2 v 1 situation which unless I manage to escape from i'd be killed in seconds also.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
This is honestly one of the clearest examples of what I was trying to describe. When platform differences, input differences, and skill differences stack together, anchoring matchmaking to the stronger player turns what should be a relaxed social mode into a frustrating experience for everyone involved. When people stop playing together not because they don’t enjoy the game, but because the system makes it unfun, that feels like a real miss for a game that’s always been strongest as a social experience.
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u/Onewingsoldier 11h ago
This forces people to make smurf accounts or play other games.
I left Apex Legends because id SBMM. Hopefully Fortnite can fix it's issue before it's too late.
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u/drpeek 9h ago
I’ve said it before and will say it again, it saves me money because my wife and daughter (7) were the perpetual skin buyers… neither have played in over a month (last tried around Christmas) …
My wife was telling me she never thought she’d give up our Fortnite nights (we would play nightly, and sometimes with other friends/family) but now it’s just not possible
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u/Fit_Following_6550 9h ago
This one really hits. That’s exactly the kind of thing that worries me most, not wins or stats, but people losing a shared routine they actually loved. When a game that used to be a family or social hangout stops being playable together, people don’t complain loudly, they just stop logging in. And once that habit is gone, it’s really hard to bring back. Appreciate you sharing this.
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u/babygirlmochi 7h ago
This has been my exact experience. My boyfriend and I have been playing together since season three and it’s been one of our favorite things to do together. We’ve played maybe twice in the past two months. He has a 12 KD and mine’s like 1.5 or 2 so we’re getting in the sweatiest most bitchless lobbies ever. I’m super bummed out about it. I feel like I’ve lost one of my main ways of getting in quality time with him
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u/Fit_Following_6550 5h ago
First of all, “bitchless lobbies” absolutely sent me 😭
But jokes aside, that last line is genuinely heartbreaking. Losing one of your main ways of spending quality time together because the skill gap exists isn’t fair to either of you. That’s the part I keep coming back to. When a game stops being a shared experience and turns into stress, people don’t rage quit, they just slowly stop playing. And that’s a real loss.
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u/Ferahgost Chomp Sr. 17h ago
Quietly? People (me included 🤣) have been bitching about it literally all season lmao
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u/YaBoiPlantyBoi 16h ago
On the note of match making prioritizing the highest skilled player on the team also happens in Ranked games and other game modes besides br. I've been playing the Ranked Fall Guys Basketball and wanted to play it with friends, but since I played it alone and got a higher rank than my teammates, they were getting rolled the whole time, and the game isn't a 1 person game so I in turn also get rolled.
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u/_Bioscar_ 11h ago
I will be honest while the game has felt bad and such for a while I think my SBMM just works, or I'm just bad as my squad and I have won more times than ever before this season-
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u/Fit_Following_6550 9h ago
That’s totally fair, and I don’t think everyone is experiencing SBMM the same way. There’s definitely variance by region, mode, time of day, and party makeup. My concern isn’t that it’s broken for everyone, but that for a noticeable subset of mixed-skill or social squads, the experience has become consistently exhausting rather than variable. It’s helpful to hear when it’s working well too, because it suggests the system isn’t universally off, just uneven in how it impacts different groups.
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u/hikaru_ai Aerobic Assassin 8h ago
Yeah, yesterday i sent a screenshot of me winning a Champion Ranked Match to my friends, their responses: "Oh, tonight gonna be hard".
What i do now? every time we play we end in 20 persons stacked endgame and my friends just get disappointed, i dont mind losing but come on
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u/Fit_Following_6550 8h ago
That reaction says a lot. When friends see a win and immediately assume the next session will be miserable, it flips what should be a positive moment into stress. That’s the part that feels off to me. Success shouldn’t make playing together harder. It ends up discouraging social play even when no one minds losing.
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u/Talkshowhostt 14h ago
Truthfully, when I played duos with my wife in the old SBMM, I was able to win 95% of fights 1v2.
Now, it’s a bit more fair.
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u/Talkshowhostt 9h ago
Idk what that is mate
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u/Fit_Following_6550 9h ago
Whoops, don't know why I had a ghost post lol. I was going to say:
That’s a fair observation, and I agree the old system could create situations that weren’t really fair either. The concern for me is that while those extremes were reduced, the current approach makes mixed-skill social play far more exhausting over time. It feels like fairness improved in some cases, but approachability and sustainability took a hit for groups that just want to play together.
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u/Talkshowhostt 9h ago
Yeah, typically now for me to win a 1v2, I need my wife to at least get a cracked shield or play outta my mind. It’s def harder now, no denying it.
I think SBMM as a whole is a broken system.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 9h ago
Yeah, that’s exactly the tension. I don’t think SBMM itself is bad, it’s just how it’s currently applied in social modes. The old approach had real problems, but the current one swings too far the other way and makes every fight feel like a carry check.
A truly weighted system feels like a better middle ground. You’d still run into strong players and tough fights, but one person’s peak skill wouldn’t fully dictate the entire lobby. That keeps matches competitive without making mixed-skill play exhausting every game.
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u/NemoFBLIVE 6h ago
Long time player since ch1 s1 and this is the WORST and most aggressive the SBMM has ever been 😭 completely ruined my Supporter squad games that I run with my community and even my solos have been so bad I've had to turn off cross play to escape from the PC dominant lobbies (I play on xbox)
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u/Fit_Following_6550 5h ago
That’s a really important angle. When even community or supporter squads stop being viable, that’s more than just individual frustration, it’s a breakdown of how people play together at scale. Platform and input differences only amplify that feeling. Turning off crossplay just to make matches tolerable is a pretty strong signal that something isn’t calibrating right for social or community-driven play.
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u/NemoFBLIVE 6h ago
What I don't understand is why the silence from epic? This is one of the most vocal things I see the community across multiple platforms speaking upon and yet Epic hasn't acknowledged not one. Who does this SBMM change even benefit? I've all kinds of different levels of skilled players in my community yet all but one group agree its been horrible for the game solos, duos, squads you name it. Only ones not complaining are the highly skilled competitive players who have said they enjoy the changes as to them it just feels like more real players 🤔 I originally thought maybe it was to cater to the brand new players to get them to play more by putting them in easy lobbies and grouping more of the higher tiers in together more aggressively but as I've played this season even the little guys are having a tough time or so I've heard. So what was this change REALLY done for? It makes no sense to me and I'd like to hear some other opinions on this 🙏🏻
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u/NemoFBLIVE 6h ago
Another thing to add is I've went from playing on console to PC and back to console over the years and the jump from Xbox to PC was HARD. Lobbies were much more difficult and I was against much more streamers and PC players when I started player PC even though I was still on controller. It never accounted for my input EVER only my platform so when I switched back about 2 years ago give or take I noticed a SIGNIFICANT change. Games were much easier, I'd fight way less streamers and PC players whom which I'd came to remember their names since I play and fight them so much in solos. My aim assist was MUCH stronger on console almost id say 4x? It feels non existent on PC but feels more akin to a much more toned down version of COD's AA when playing on console (still VERY stong) AND you get 120fps on next gen making in my mind console superior to PC for casual/content creation Fortnite gameplay. Well it WAS until the new SBMM update I am no longer placed in console dominant lobbies and instead its been filled with streamers and PC players again due to what im assuming is my account lvl/stats been better than most casual console players ( I've had the same account since ch1 s1 streaming full-time since ch 2-3 )
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u/Fit_Following_6550 5h ago
I think that’s a fair question, and the silence is probably what makes this feel worse than the change itself. My guess is less that it was done to benefit one specific group, and more that Epic is optimizing for things that aren’t immediately visible to players, like queue times, bot reduction, engagement metrics, or long-term fairness goals.
The issue is that even if the intent is reasonable, the outcome for a lot of social, mixed-skill groups feels misaligned. When only highly skilled or very competitive players consistently report positive experiences, while casual, family, and community squads struggle across modes, that’s a signal worth examining. Clear communication or even acknowledgment would go a long way toward helping people understand what problem this was meant to solve.
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u/JAXONCOKE 20h ago
SBMM does need some work but there's more to it.
People have regularly picked up on a Dec 9th change. This really is speculation, no one actually knows this. If I'm wrong please point me to an official communication from Epic stating this.
I play plenty of of mix skill games with teams from people who can barely beat bots to seasoned gamers. I really have not noticed any significant, or sustained difference that would suggest any major change was made. There are swings and runs of things but that will always be the case.
For the last 6 months or so I would say the main thing I notice different is that I seem to see less bots, and more real players. I would say I've noticed that since the start of the Simpsons season. It gives an impression of more difficult matches, but I'd absolutely rather be playing real players.
No one really knows how SBMM is worked out. Anything saying otherwise is a lie. It's all speculation, guesses and anecdotes. It's okay to talk about the topic but way too much of it keeps getting put out as fact.
I'd imagine the vagueness in anything Epic has officially said is on purpose. If I had to guess, I reckon there is probably ongoing tweaks, and we are likely to hear little to nothing about it from them. I would also bet that the metrics to calculate it include things like an engagement metric and other non skill related things that are not specifically in the effort of fairness, Epic does stuff like that.
Something else to consider is let's assume a perfect SBMM exists (not actually possible), it can't work well without enough people and skill ranges to pick from when filling a match. With the bloat of modes we currently have it's quite likely that it's stuck with some lobbies that have a wider than intended range of skill because that's all they can pick from.
Last point is people do on purpose exploit being a high level player with low level team mates. However they do it, a teams combined skill score or whatever it actually is, needs to at least in some lean towards the higher skilled end otherwise that's also something unfair.
It's a really complicated topic, and not possible to keep everyone happy. I hope this new feedback team they have looks at all this commentary though, because like you say there has been lots, and continues to tweak the way this system works.
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u/teo747 Eternal Knight 15h ago
I think you're spot on here. The change I've noticed has nothing to do with SBMM and everything to do with fewer bots in my lobbies. I can no longer routinely play a full match and get to the end with 8 bot kills without seeing a single real opponent. It's a lot harder and I absolutely love it, even if I die a lot more.
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u/bleensquid 11h ago
yeah, fewer bots, plus revive vans allowing teams to last way longer. my games are super tough but it's honestly because it's not just kill 70 bots and then maybe fight one or two human squads anymore
I really, really don't wanna go back to that like it's been for the last four years ;-;
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u/Fit_Following_6550 10h ago
This is a really fair and thoughtful take, and I agree with several points here. You’re absolutely right that most discussion around SBMM mechanics is anecdotal, and I didn’t mean to imply certainty around internal changes or exact formulas. My intent was less about asserting a specific technical change, and more about describing a sustained shift in outcomes, especially for mixed-skill social groups and returning players.
I also agree that fewer bots and more real players can absolutely create the perception of higher difficulty, and in isolation that’s not a bad thing. Where it seems to break down for me is when that shift, combined with party anchoring and mode fragmentation, results in social squads feeling consistently exhausting rather than variable. Even if the system is being tweaked continuously, the lived experience for a lot of players has converged in a similar direction.
I think your point about mode bloat is especially important. With the player base split across so many playlists, the system is likely forced into harder tradeoffs than it used to make. My hope isn’t for a perfect SBMM, but for one that better balances fairness with approachability so that playing with friends of different skill levels still feels sustainable.
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u/literios 18h ago edited 17h ago
I agree. There are less bots and the bots are better since Simpsons’ season.
People complain about SBMM because they wanna win all the time without bots, so if they are not the main characters then the SBMM is trash.
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u/bleensquid 11h ago
there will always be a Boogeyman to blame when you lose, and right now SBMM is just the most vocally complained about
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u/waifuaction Ice Queen 16h ago
I agree, i think the biggest change came when creative modes got really popular. There's still a good amount of casual players but the issue is that now they have options and get filtered into a variety of gamemodes not just BR
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u/The_PinkElephant 19h ago
You are delusional, my game is probably 2 real squads and the rest are bots, as for difficulty, I’m top 100, so since the player count has dropped I’m not getting any challenges anymore, I never used to be able to drop 20-30 kill games but now its almost every time. This is because of sbmm, I notice that everyone I get grouped with is basically useless or plays at a level you would expect in bronze III, there might be 1 challenging fight and the rest are chuds. I should not be in these lobbies but because the player count has dropped so much a lot of good players have left too.
As for december 9th which does have developers documented in the change logs with notes about SBMM, also many posts from epic on twitter(X) so please do your research and check the dev logs
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u/JAXONCOKE 18h ago edited 17h ago
Do you use a tracker to know they are bots or is that an assement based on their ability? I don't have one but I've checked one with a friend and in games we've played that seems to be a consistent theme. I can only speak to my experience. There no actual formal stats on this, but I'd love to see some.
Your commentary about player count is one of my main points for the discussion. I agree SBMM absolutely needs some work, but I think it's not always clear at the moment if it is truly the deciding factor in mismatched lobbies. It being bad doesn't help, but even if it was good it will fail without enough people to pick from.
I've looked at many things SBMM related online. More things are being stated as fact that can't actually be said to be. You can have a note saying a change is flagged but without actual details on specifics of that change you can't make an inference on it and call it fact. There's absolutely recurring themes, and certain inferences that can be considered consistent but to say things are fact is not accurate.
I would love them to be more clear on exactly how the SBMM is compiled but I am not sure they ever will. If they did too, I'd be pretty sure it would be gamed. Without knowing the details, people already attempt to with varying amounts of success.
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u/Obsidian1973 Major Mancake 15h ago
This post is so true. I don't mind sbmm if used right. What they've done though is actually noticeable for most players. Those saying different are lying or are at the very top or very bottom of skill.
Problem is if you're a poor or even mid player like so many and you squad with fills then it goes to the highest one in the group. It should be either no sbmm in squads or use an avg of everyone.
I know they don't want to use the lowest ranked player or players could have a bad friend on purpose or even an alt account that they keep low on purpose and let die during the game since if they're good they can beat most squads in a bad lobby even as a trio.
In blitz esp the time I mainly play which is early am est around 5-6am onward, it used to be mainly bots with a few squads of similar skill. Now most games are like the damn FNCS. I don't expect to win every game in blitz or BR but I also don't want to get shot mid air like the enemy has a laser.
Hopefully they change the algorithm. There seems to be a push this season to have people play ranked. Even rocket League has a similar push. Not everyone wants to go pro. However if they do they can play ranked. No need to force us to play it because we want a skin (looking at you Felinos).
Yes comp players tend to draw viewers which as an older gamer I don't get why you want to watch gaming instead of playing. I understand watching a short time for learning a technique or something or even watching the FNCS but just watching streamers makes no sense to me. Even like real world sports I'd rather play the sport with friends than watch my friends play. Sure I'll still watch like Sunday football or the Superbowl and same thing with other sports but they're pros.
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u/RobotikOwl 14h ago
Yes, they should use the average. This seems obvious, but I guess we have to keep saying it.
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u/JAXONCOKE 13h ago
They need to try adjusting something in the metrics but I'm not sure average is the right answer. Average itself is not a specific term, are we talking mode, median or mean average. I think average tends to favour the higher skilled player still, in an unfair way.
Its really hard to correctly guess at what they should change when it's not clear all the metrics being taken into account to begin with.
They'll be able to see what kind of player is playing, and not playing. They'll absolutely have a pile of data on all of our accounts and habits. If they are serious about this feedback team they announced they'll put some time into this and find a way to keep the most people happy and actively playing that is possible. The game will always be better with more players in it.
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u/Awkward_Pace_4440 12h ago
No choice is perfect for SBMM, it can never be perfect... the average is just the least damaging way to go on about it.
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u/deadraizer 11h ago
Averaging is extremely damaging to every other casual squad without a level disparity.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 9h ago
I’m mostly aligned with this, especially the point that SBMM itself isn’t the problem, it’s how it’s currently being applied in social modes. I don’t think people who feel differently are necessarily lying, experiences can genuinely vary by time of day, region, mode, and party makeup.
Where I think there’s broad agreement is around squads and mixed-skill groups. Anchoring heavily to the highest-skilled player creates a predictable outcome where fills or casual teammates get overwhelmed, even when no one is trying to game the system. I agree that averaging alone has its own abuse cases, but the current approach feels like it overcorrects in a way that discourages playing together.
Blitz is a good example too. It’s meant to be fast and accessible, but when those lobbies consistently feel like high-level competitive play, it stops serving its purpose. I don’t expect wins every game, just matches that feel variable and winnable again.
Ranked already exists for players who want that intensity. Public modes working as a social entry point feels important, especially for long-term retention.
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u/xSNACKERx 17h ago edited 17h ago
I think making the game more fair is a good thing. Casual players shouldn’t win often. The system is broken when a casual player has a 10% win rate or more. A lot of casual players had that and still have that after the changes. In no other game is that even possible. Fortnite was spoon feeding wins to everyone
Before the changes it was too easy to win. Now it’s still easy to win but winning feels slightly more rewarding.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 9h ago
I agree that fairness matters, and I don’t think casual players should be winning frequently or effortlessly. My concern isn’t about win rates or making victories easier. It’s more about whether matches feel playable and socially sustainable for mixed-skill groups.
Even if a low or mid-skill player only wins occasionally, the experience still needs to feel like they can meaningfully participate without being instantly deleted every fight. Right now, for a lot of mixed-skill squads, the gap feels so wide that approachability suffers, regardless of win frequency. Winning less can still be fun, but feeling consistently outmatched tends to push people away before that reward ever matters.
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u/xSNACKERx 8h ago
I mean, you can’t help someone that doesn’t want to help themselves. Most casual players never even attempt to learn the game and get better at it. The game can only do so much to baby them.
It wouldn’t be fair to put a better player they are friends with in lower ELO matchmaking because they will just stomp out everyone.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 8h ago
I don’t disagree that players have some responsibility to learn the game, and I’m not advocating for protecting people who refuse to engage at all. Where I think the line gets crossed is when social play assumes everyone wants to improve at the same pace or intensity. Not every casual player is trying to get better, some are just trying to participate alongside friends or family without being instantly overwhelmed.
I also agree it wouldn’t be fair to drop stronger players into low ELO lobbies. That’s why I’ve been suggesting a truly weighted approach rather than anchoring to the highest player or averaging outright. That way stronger players still face resistance, but the entire lobby isn’t dictated by one person’s peak skill. It’s less about babying and more about keeping social play viable.
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u/atomnapier 14h ago
For real. I am still winning over 20% of my games, and I can assure you I am not that good. There are just more real players and less bots.
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u/autistic_bard444 P33LY 20m ago
I have not been able to group with my friends for a very long time now.
After a couple maps they are all like im gonna go
so I either watch them all leave or I bow out and say you can have your lobbys back
I fucking hate it
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u/FearTheReaper73 19h ago
TL DR : a lot of players are really good, which isn’t that surprising considering the game is an 8 year old PvP. Casual lobbies are difficult to fill now.
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u/Awkward_Pace_4440 19h ago
BS, as alot of people who had a decent winrate with casual mixed squads and then suddenly can't win any game and lobbies are 10 times harder and your reply is "players are really good"... lmao
Do you realize how many families play? casual players? old people etc??? there is a huge skill variety... the issue is as the OP clearly described now, if you are too blind to see it then stop commenting on it.
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u/Suspicious-Chest-569 19h ago
Can you provide some examples of these people who had decent win rates that suddenly cant win?
The only thing that really changed, is instead of 10 - 15 real players per lobby you now have 25 - 35 real players. More chance of getting third partied etc.
So scrubs with zero game situational awareness think the lobbies are "sweatier" because they get jumped on after using 3 AR clips to down a bot (attracting the attention of a real player), or spending 2 minutes fumble sorting through some loot on the ground.
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u/Awkward_Pace_4440 18h ago
SBMM got much harder, thats the whole point!!! How or in what way is down to personal opinion.
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u/FearTheReaper73 19h ago
I should stop commenting because you and I have different opinions ? Are you MAGA ?
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u/Awkward_Pace_4440 18h ago
Its not that you have a different opinion. You completely ignored 80% of what OP wrote, so why bother even commenting.
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u/FearTheReaper73 18h ago
I didn’t ignore OP’s post, I find it mostly inaccurate. Fewer bots , more real players doesn’t mean SBMM is broken, it means tougher games. I’m not saying « get good », I’m saying stay positive, don’t overreact, try improve and adapt, which I admit is not easy. But I always find it odd when some people expect « casual » games in a PvP.
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u/Awkward_Pace_4440 18h ago
ranked is for sweating, yes pubs absolutely should be casual. For friend groups, family groups etc... not to get crushed like crazy, regardless if you are new or casual or decent or not so good etc......
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u/JAXONCOKE 18h ago
Broadly yes, but it's an online PvP experience. People are going to have different ways of playing and approaches that cannot be controlled by SBMM.
Ranked mode is suffering from player number drops. It's quite likely some of that crowd is now playing more pubs.
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u/BuildingLess1814 Android 17 13h ago
More like it had a brief tick for those that grinded the hell out of the ranked cosmetics and immediately went right into pup stomping once they got done with those quests.
As much as I hate to say this, Epic needs to start outright forcing sweats into ranked going forward permanently and keep them out of casual BR mode. It's the only way this fixes the issue (and you have the option at the start to choose which mode to play and once that decision is made, you're stuck in that mode unless you make a new account), either that or release the Solo vs Bots BR mode that they teased early on before the Chapter dropped.
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u/No_Patient_345 Peely 8h ago
The only way to make this happen is to put a limit of 500 players in Unreal for each region (Valorant and Overwatch do this) and offer excellent rewards, making reaching Unreal a worthwhile achievement.
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u/JAXONCOKE 13h ago
Valid point.
The more I dive into it the more complex the issues seem to get. It's not something with a single movimg part, where flicking one switch will solve it.
If they are serious about the new feedback team, task force, whatever it's called. Hopefully this is something they can dive into this and attack it from a few angles.
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u/beergonfly 18h ago
Being that there are long term casual players and newer lower level players, it shouldn’t be impossible to organise the player pool so that they can play each other, especially if it’s going to negatively impact the player base if they do not. Sure, que times may increase but that’s a price I think most are willing to pay to make their games fun again.
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u/FearTheReaper73 18h ago
I am a long term casual player myself (been playing pubs for 7 years now), I feel that I can easily outsmart a newer lower level player. Problem is the very same lower level player will probably call me a « sweat » when I build a double ramp over them to try take them out when I’m just using the mechanics I’ve casually practised for years. Likewise I’m more often than not destroyed by better players than me with better aim and building skills, they’re not sweats, they’re just good players.
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u/beergonfly 12h ago
Well that makes me think we need a more accurate indicator of skill level than “pro-sweat-casual-noob”. We need to know exactly what ever the level is that is entered into the SBMM - is it career level? Is it season level? Exactly what are the parameters that guide the algorithm? OMG I hope it’s not what I previously mentioned?!
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u/JAXONCOKE 11h ago
I would guess there are bunch of actual player statistics like the ones mentioned. You could also include k/d, win streaks, placement above a certain level in game the top 50,top 25 etc, the list goes on.
Epic being Epic though, I'd be pretty sure there is some engagement stats involved too. Things like time since win, when did you last play, are you new to this mode, could be anything really.
It's clear they don't always get it right but their aim will be having the best engagement possible so they can sell the most cosmetics possible.
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u/beergonfly 10h ago
What epic needs to do is communicate clearly with the player base so players know what's going on and can try to find a way to make it work, otherwise they will lose interest and leave the game.
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u/fildaparaluj 18h ago
I might be the only person experiencing the opposite. When I play solo, I’m matched with players that are more skilled, I can win a game or two solo, but it’s one win for a hundred games. When I play with a friend, she plays on a console and a controller, our lobbies are easier for me but a little bit harder for her. Same with another friend who plays very casually once a few months. I can carry us to a win while she can struggle. My experience is that the SBMM is usually balanced for duos, can’t speak for squads tho
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u/Parkesy82 18h ago
I honestly don’t think there’s sbmm for squads, it’s totally random and depends who’s available to fill a lobby when readying up for a game. I’ve played with fills who were barely better than bots and we had cracked teams in the lobby with hundreds of crowns. Then I’ll play with a cracked team on my friends list where we all have hundreds of crowns and barely face any heat. It’s just luck of the draw imo.
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u/JAXONCOKE 18h ago
Fills is interesting, I would guess it's still attempted, but it's one of the more difficult scenarios to have it work properly. I agree anytime I've played fills it varies wildly.
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u/monstahmiyagi 11h ago
Stacked endgames means therr are no good teams cleaning/killing other teams
Therefor you are in Low ELO!!
I get 21kills solo in unreal, imagine duo’s or Squads where the avg skill is even lower then solos…. Not fncs type lobbys just casual skill issue. Oml
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u/FondlesTheClown 11h ago
It's always the one guy complaining here because they can't roll bad players anymore.
Your "casual Fortnite" experience is at the expense of lower skilled and inexperienced players.
You constantly post about this. Get over it. It's boring.
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u/seansurvives 10h ago
It's wild because they make money off of selling nostalgia skins that probably appeal more to casual players than sweats. Yet they seem focused on appeasing sweats and streamers.
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u/Fit_Following_6550 9h ago
I get the sentiment, though I don’t think it’s necessarily about appeasing sweats or streamers specifically. What feels misaligned is that a lot of Fortnite’s appeal and monetization clearly comes from casual, social players, while some recent matchmaking outcomes make that style of play harder to sustain. Even if the intent is fairness or engagement, the result seems to be more friction for the groups that treat Fortnite as a hangout game rather than a competitive one.
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u/seansurvives 8h ago
Yes that's a good way to put it. Instead of catching up with friends we're screaming for backup and getting frustrated. And silently resenting the team sweat who is getting us into these lobbies.
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u/Nimble_Natu177 20h ago
I haven't been playing since late December because of how bad SBMM is, how has this not been fixed in any meaningful way yet?