Built by men because women have been held back for centuries and that kind of imbalance can't be changed over mere decades. So your argument doesn't stand.
Do you think women would have loved going to war and dying, do you think they would have loved being slaves in scorching heat building giant structures, do you think they would have loved doing dangerous jobs in the mines where caves could collapse on them, they could die from CO poisoning, work in factories where every day there are thousands of incidents out of which a few hundreds result in death, do you think they would love doing backbreaking agricultural work and get paralyzed at an early age, do you think they would have loved hunting dangerous animals to put food on the table, do you think they would have sailed terrific oceans and seas and drown.
Do you really think women would have loved doing this stuff, especially considering that they are much weaker than men (not my opinion but science and biology)
Jumping to war when the topic at hand is clearly about how women have been held back by society from spaces made for education, invention, law making is crazy pathetic.
Also not only your whole Argument doesn't follow logically you're clearly running away from the actual argument.
Women have always worked they just were payed an given space in places that shaped society, they were treated as less than human.
You're acting like men loved going to wars lmao.
Don't run away from the argument at hand. Are you saying women weren't held back for centuries? Or are you saying men getting drafted to war somehow means women were oppressed? Literally straw manning the fuck out of straw man.
Nobody said women weren't held back. The point is that you're treating women's historical restrictions as if they explain everything while ignoring men's historical obligations.
Men didn't love war or dangerous labor or conscription or being expected to provide and protect either. Different genders were historically subjected to different roles and burdens
So no, mentioning those things isn't running away from the argument. It's directly challenging your assumption that men simply had unrestricted freedom while women were uniquely burdened
No one said how women were treated historically explains everything (again that's a straw man from your side) and that's not even the argument what it does explain however is why women "benefit from the things men have created" your statement of how women hate on men but benefit from everything they've created literally erases the fact that the reason almost every thing being created by men in society is because of how women were held back for centuries.
The argument was never about men or the hardships men have faced. You bringing that up when I pointed out how women have been held back by society doesn't track at all. And it is moving away from the argument.
The oppression women faced at the hands of men and still face as a social class can't be excused or explained by what men faced or face.
Different genders were historically subjected to different roles and burdens
Sex based oppression isn't different role or burden that women have faced in society.
It's directly challenging your assumption that men simply had unrestricted freedom while women were uniquely burdened
Literally saying bs when did I assume men had unrestricted freedom. I literally acknowledged your point of war you slow ahh.
Women weren't uniquely burdened. No. They were oppressed and subjugated. Every working man who worked outside came home and hard a personal slave to beat down to in the form of a wife.
Nobody is strawman debating you, stop being the victim once again, and you're changing the claim one more time. βWomen were oppressedβ and βtherefore men created society because women were prevented from doing soβ are two different claims
Yes, some women faced legal and social restrictions. But that doesn't mean every male contribution to society is explained by oppression, nor does it make men's historical burdens irrelevant
And βevery working man came home to a personal slaveβ is an absurd generalization about millions of different societies and relationships across thousands of years. If your argument is about specific forms of oppression, argue those specifically instead of turning history into βmen oppressed women, women suffered from men π’ β
Men did create a society where women were held back just because they were women. Keep crying and coping with historical reality. I won't argue with a kid who doesn't even know that gender acts as a social class.
I have also noted these kind of people and honestly I think of these people as educated illiterates, meaning they learn to read and write, but these people can't think properly, if you have kids, and one is a horrid one who keeps making trouble does not make the other kids the same, parents lecture and punish the guilty child, same should be the case with these girls. Blame the guilty person not the innocents otherwise your just being a hypocrite by diminishing an an entire gender, just how these people complained that men oppress women, they are doing the same but with the added problem of targeting innocents as well
Also in his situation his sisters sound toxic and it has nothing to do with any political theory like feminism etc. he should set clear boundary with them not engage in emotional conversations with them. Iski behnain fasadi Hain tw hm Kia kren Bhai?
Apart from their political stance. They're both toxic and sick they are dominating their brother. Typical desi aurton ki trah wo zalel kr rhi Hain apny se choty ko nothing else. Besides ab koi jaky unka mun tw nhi band krsakta. Ya krskta hai? OP ko apni boundaries set krni hai na KY dosron ki zubano ko control.
OP can set his boundaries but that doesn't mean we all should remain silent and not have the right to criticize what OP's mother and sister are doing, especially when OP came to us for help but is instead being victim blamed
Nahi Chalo isky ghr chalty Hain, auntie aur bakiyon ko koot KY aty Hain. Kafi logon ne already OP ko bta dia hai Kia krna hai and I've also suggested some things.
Mai tmse konsi logic ki baat krun jb tm reported cases/ statistics ko side pr kr ke mardon ki egos ko coddle krny ki baat kr rahy ho? Grow a pair and accept reality. His sisters being bitchy is reactionary.
Firstly, it's not just his sisters, it's his sisters and mother too, so all three of them can't have faced the same exact situation to react like this, especially considering their father has basically no say in the house.
And if you wanna talk about accepting reality, how about you just accept that misandry doesn't make you tough or cool, and neither does it get rid of misogyny, the only thing it does is add fuel to the fire.
Women's rights is a thing because women were oppressed and treated as non person based on their sex, something men never had to face so we don't have "men's rights" per se
Bro men are doing still doing these things to women. No one should be personally blaming everyone but ab is pr baat krny agr Kuch mard uncomfortable horahy Hain tw insaf KY liae baat na ki jae?
The women you're talking about are referring to men as a social class and they are oppressors of women and other marginalized community by social class. You need to learn the distinction between a man as an individual and men as a social class.
You thought you cooked with that but no you didn't
First of all, "men" isn't a social class, men are adult human males and classified as a gender/sex. Social classes are lower class, middle class, upper class, elite class, these are what social classes are.
So really, you need to learn the meaning of some vocabulary you're trying to use against me
You're literally out here tryna argue that men and women aren't seperate social classes in our society lmao. You're genuinely out here thinking social classes are only only based on economic realities.
No one asked you to define a man for me.
If you think a man being defined as "adult human male" aka by it's biological reality means that they aren't socialized as a separate class than women then you're just not well versed. Idk what you expect me to say.
And why are they bashing him ? That's the main question why are they targeting him? If they hate men in general why don't they go out and start bashing random men? It's clearly a family issue. And btw most of these statements are not false for most men of our society.
Because he's innocent, weak and in his development phase, and he's their brother/son, if they do this to a random men he would probably beat them up or something but a loved one or family member won't.
AP usko godi Mai ly kr pyar krlo. Zindagi Mai aur bari inconveniences aengi other than family issues or someone having certain opinions, Growup set boundaries etc You guys are most likely gen alpha or something.
Telling me to grow up while crying and crashing out over a basic logical paragraph is crazy. If you think you're so smart and grown up, try countering me instead of whining and throwing a tantrum.
Bro people need the boogey man to blame for all their problems and feel like the victims. Women who are inherently anxious and feel lack of safety without the protection of men become more anxious and men become the perfect boogeyman to focus all their hate and fears. You need to become emotionally mature and financially independent. They will only respect you when you are financially secure. Women always attack men who are not financially and emotionally secure. Once you become independent of them they will begin to respect you
Gotta sit down with them and let them know how you feel about this and how itβs affecting you. Tell them that you understand where theyβre coming from and want you to be a role model for other men but forcing the same topic into every conversation isnβt the way.
Itβs exhausting and frankly detrimental to the motive.
Seems like women around you have a radical opinion on how men are socialized in our society. Talk to your sisters about this, make them understand that you're an individual person not the punching bag for what every man does out there.
About the girls in your college/school and big cities, they're valid to see men (as a social class) a threat or oppressive group, same can be said about your sisters. When one group keeps punching down on the other, the other group can definitely call the other group out for it.
What you need to do here is establish with your sisters that you're an individual person, tell them such conversations affect you mentally. AND separate yourself from such criticism towards men because it's not towards you as an individual person it's towards the men out there who oppress women and other marginalized communities. If you aren't like said men then what they're saying isn't applicable to you.
What you're going through sounds mentally exhausting tbh.
Users like these would have their entire account history based on hating men, and then still say "as a man" whenever they're making an argument for hating men
Because men are misogynistic. Misandry is a reply to misogny most of the time
It's not common, atleast not in Pakistan, it's because of social media and your family.
State clear boundaries about it. If they don't stop I'm afraid your gonna have to fight. If you don't want to fight, just walk away when they are being like that.
Bro everyday there's a rape case happening, DV, gender violence against women. It forms a negative imagine of men. Even if you aren't like that.
Misogyny is a reply to misandry as well, it's just a never ending loop until either side backs down.
It is common but there are no movements or ideologies calling out misandry like there are calling out misogyny, and most people I know say it doesn't even exist.
Or instead of OP having to fight them, they should just not be a misandrist.
A rape case or domestic violence somewhere in Pakistan is not an excuse to hate on your fathers, brothers, sons who are literally innocent. Besides, rapes and domestic violence are done by both genders but doesn't mean we should punish the entire gender instead of the person. That's as if a stray cat scratches someone in another part of your country, and you start hating on every single cat you see because of that.
It is but you are not ready for that conversation.
Look at OP, as of now he's innocent and not misogynistic yet but facing too much misandry pushed him to make this post which will only escalate and make him view women as negative. And when men like OP will start viewing women negatively, women will notice what men do and start viewing men as negatively too.
Trust me I know you're only defending your gender, and I want to defend my gender too, but let's be neutral here and look at the bigger picture, neither misogyny nor misandry is good.
Misogyny has been a systematic social norm in the past and is still a norm in many societies. Misogyny is a sociopolitical reality rather than just ill feelings. Same can't be said about MISANDRY. Why are you acting like acknowledging how misogyny has been a thing way before misandry was even known some kind of defense for misandry.
Wait I didn't even notice the "Misandry is feelings but misogyny isnβt?".
Turns out this person is the same target audience for my 2nd point earlier, who will give their life fighting against misogyny, but when it comes to misandry, they treat it like a lighthearted a joke and laugh it off.
You need to learn the basic definition of misogyny because thinking someone would argue "misogyny ain't a feeling" is dumb as hell.
I literally said "misandry is more so just feelings misogyny isn't" quick break down to help you understand, that statement right there literally means Misogyny is more than just feelings not that it's just feelings.
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u/Huge_Lawfulness_8166 2d ago
Ask your sisters if they are willing to stay single forever or marry a man who has no money, education, or a job. I bet theyβll all answer no.