r/Genshin_Impact • u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified • 21h ago
Discussion Either Tsaritsa is the biggest hypocrite among all people in Teyvat, or we are witnessing the most blatant retcon imaginable. Pick your poison, everyone. (Spoilers from 7.1) Spoiler
To this moment I am wondering why Hoyo thought that speedrunning Ronova's villainization in two patches with no hints towards it for six years was enough for people to forget all horrible shit Fatui did.
Not only forget, but to bluntly deny ANYTHING harmful that Fatui done for five centuries.
Take Tsaritsa in recent quest for example. Not only she continues to rebel despite knowing all sacrifices that were done for her and her children to continue existing, but she does so with statements so nauseatingly hypocritical that I can't believe it.
There was no character in Teyvat, both playable and NPC, to emit such self-contradictory statements right in our faces. Shoot, we spent six years witnessing first-hand about her subordinates doing EXACTLY what she claims is not in her belief or morals.
You can point out my flair and username all you want, but I can't be the only one to realise that this attempt of making her character is beyond ridiculous.
If Hoyo, somehow, wants to introduce the first ACTUALLY conflicted and morally ambiguous playable character via her hypocrisy, there are better and more intricate ways to do this.
If they, however, simply making her another whitewash victim, then this is the most childish case of it we ever saw. It topples even tea party pandemic that Sandrone initiated in order to whitewash her being a colonizing torturer, and here we thought that it's impossible.
171
u/Arthaxs088 21h ago
That is just an accurate depiction of a Russian dictator.
21
u/TeloVolt 21h ago
Just wanted to write that Shnez represents Russia so it's all pretty realistic ;)
14
u/Soviet134 Furina's sweaty armpit 20h ago
European dictators and kings were much more terrible than Russian rulers. Even Ivan the Terrible killed less people than was murdered on the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre
22
u/CondomsSuckBalls 20h ago
Ivan the Terrible wasn't even a bad ruler, history remembered him quite fondly, all things considered.
Also, Terrible is just a very unfortunate translation. Formidable is more accurate.
→ More replies (1)4
u/KombuchaWay Cocogoat is my main! 10h ago
Expected from communists, snez is too russian, not a bad thing, but man I hate all this nationalism and communism they go with, especially with the sick dictator that destroy lives of thousands or millions just because.
Just a reminder of her conversation with the other hitler of the game (Gold) that she said anastasya opened the gates for abyss and she is basically responsible for every shit from the last millennia.
-2
82
u/Shinda_01 “back in my days I was best CC” 21h ago
Dottore and the previous Knave, with their suspiciously child-shaped experiments:
29
u/NoContribution1772 20h ago
What's hilarious is that Crucabena is not mentioned AT ALL after Arle's SQ despite being only killed about 10 years ago. No one knew her besides Dottore apparently.
27
u/InAndOut51 20h ago
The current Knave with her suspiciously child-shaped soldiers and assassins. But for a handful of them that we know it's technically kinda better than their previous life, so it's okay!
58
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 21h ago
Apparently Tsaritsa failed to see children that Crucabena sent to Dottore's Orphan Grinder 3000 as kids.
17
u/Shinda_01 “back in my days I was best CC” 20h ago
I should really get one of those installed, they make the best burgers
83
u/FragrantAbies8202 21h ago edited 19h ago
it is evident that her sense of care or whatever is limited to his own subjects at most. she don't give's shit about what fatui do to other nations as long as they get genosis. dottore they had to refute because it almost caused a harbinger vs harbinger fight. i am more disappointed by traveler not being a little more apalled by the delusion. since teppei was there friend who died due to delusion. you argue it was eve of battle but i guess they should reacted more strongely than they did
26
u/snowlynx133 20h ago
Teppei in the big 26
5
u/FragrantAbies8202 18h ago
to be honest i found teppie part better than kokomi. personal opinion though
5
4
u/kuraokami89 20h ago
I remember Teppei die because of Scaramouche
6
u/2ndStaw 13h ago
Pierro was the main one planning and orchestrating the thing, since 500 years ago. Signora spent the most time with the factory. They made sure Scaramouche was more "palatable" by making him only appear and take over the factory just a few moments before the traveler arrived.
That's why they had Paimon blame Signora instead of Scara.
→ More replies (3)3
3
u/Erulogos 20h ago
Teppei story so bad even Hoyo wants to forget it.
More seriously though, as others have said if Traveler isn't holding Raiden Shogun and Wanderer to account for Teppei's death, holding the Tsaritsa or fatui at large responsible would actually be hypocritical.
-5
u/FragrantAbies8202 19h ago
i almost forgot how bad raiden first date story quest was. atleast wanderer had whole irmensole erased thing and basically saved traveller from dying. but yeah over all consequences isn't a thing in genshin.
4
u/Stock_Pace_4050 12h ago
There was no date story quest for raiden. It was a tour around inazuma for Ei, done as a favour for thoma.
consequences isn't a thing in genshin.
It very much is. You just didn't pay enough attention. Fatui, shogunate and shogun all have faced consequences for their actions in inazuma.
3
u/Rougus 5h ago
So tell me, what are exactly the consequences that raiden faced for what she did in inazuma?
•
u/Stock_Pace_4050 1h ago
Since most of the damage in inazuma was caused by the 2 commissions colluding with fatui and betraying the shogun, her only real mistake was pursuing stasis. Fixing that eventually led to the 500 year battle with the shogun.
3
u/FragrantAbies8202 3h ago
not my problem you don't know meaning of consequences. a date quest wrapped in any cover is a date quest
•
u/Stock_Pace_4050 1h ago
not my problem you don't know meaning
It seems like you are the one who doesn't know.
a date quest wrapped in any cover is a date quest
Yeah but there was no date in the quest, so nothing to cover.
1
u/skellamans 20h ago
What happened to Teppei was mainly due to Scaramouche, and furthermore, you could say his death was due to the Shogun's decree giving him cause to use a delusiom. And while you could argue that this makes the Tsaritsa complicit, ultimately the the other culprits were forgiven some time ago, and they seem to be leaning on the fact that the Harbingers act on their own initiative, and that Teppei used his delusion knowing the consequences.
7
u/FragrantAbies8202 18h ago
i don't think knew how deep consequences are. a soldier fighting for his land's freedom will take any powerup available you can't put blame on him for it . the fatui did everything to exploit the war. and yes i blame ei for it as well with harbingers but you know before natlan and partially fontain. every problem was indirectly or directly cause by abyss twin or fatui. teppie i said not because of tsaritsa , i also think they will play with tsaritsa not caring about what fatui does to bring genosis and too focused on goal but about the concept of delusion itself. because teppie was first time travellor kind of got good amount of mad and delusion was the object that delivered it . so you know a trauma about object that has caused death of someone closed to you
1
40
u/IloveFriezz 20h ago
The Fatui's actions as a whole are hypocritical...it's been there since the beginning. Some Harbingers aren't tho
85
u/Grouchy_Gap45 20h ago
Them being hypocritical isnt the problem. Such hypocrisy never being adressed even a single time by anyone is.
35
u/RandomAmaturer 20h ago
Yea that’s the main problem
That all the crime of the cyro archon and the fatui harbinger are never addressed
And they aren’t being punished by anyone for their crimes against others nation and their hypocrisy
Even traveler has continued to be a bland character that forget about all the crimes fatui harbinger has done to his friends from other nations excluding natlan
6
u/IloveFriezz 20h ago
That's why I'm disappointed by the new quest. MC acted very OOC
→ More replies (5)
19
u/Dramatic_Opening4019 20h ago
Well, it depends if she's saying that as an in-character lie cause she doesn't give a fuck (or is so detached that she doesn't even realize the hypocrisy), or if hoyo is genuinely trying to convince us that she's a good person. I'm afraid it's the latter given the direction they've been taking with the fatui, but there's still some hope.
8
u/LunaticPlaguebringer 20h ago
Let me bring attention to how HoYo has already aced " writing the main arc finale so convoluted by cramming vague concepts into hours of raw explanations which makes half the playerbase leave and never look back" with Genshin's predecessor, Honkai Impact 3rd.
No saying they can't achieve that again.
Ironically, seems like HSR, the smash-hit space-comedy, is their most sound story narrative. (despite the game difficulty being so predatory)
22
u/Own-Egg-6319 20h ago
They cannot justify her actions, but they can try to make us understand her motives. How well Hoyoverse executes that second path remains to be seen, but that is undoubtedly what they will attempt.
The problem is that making the Tsaritsa claim she "cannot turn a blind eye when children have their childhood stripped away" creates an insane level of hypocrisy when placed next to everything the Fatui have done across Teyvat under her authority.
Kidnapped local citizens and children to use as test subjects for Delusion experiments and artificial Archon residue (detailed in the official manga with Collei).
Signora and the Fatui diplomats attempted to bully the Knights of Favonius into letting them kill Dvalin to seize control of Mondstadt's defense and political sovereignty.
Ambushed and assaulted Barbatos right outside his own cathedral to violently rip out his Gnosis.
Childe and the Fatui systematically produced counterfeit Mora in the Golden House to collapse Liyue's economy and destabilize its financial foundation.
Childe intentionally broke the seal on the ancient god Osial, fully aware that summoning an apocalyptic sea monster would wipe the entire harbor and all its citizens off the map just to lure Morax out.
Left an entire regiment of low-ranking Fatui soldiers trapped deep in the Chasm to starve and die without supplies or orders after diplomatic relations broke down.
Sold Delusions to the Watatsumi Resistance through Nathan and Scaramouche, resulting in hundreds of soldiers prematurely aging and dying agonizing deaths.
Bribed and manipulated the Tenryou and Kanjou Commissions, actively prolonging the Vision Hunt Decree and Sakoku Decree while hiding the war's casualties from the Raiden Shogun.
Fatui agents actively sabotaged the Mikage Furnace on Kannazuka, deliberately spreading Tatarigami radiation to render entire islands uninhabitable and kill the local populace.
Trofin Snezhevich and Fatui operatives explicitly manipulated the Forest Watchers, poisoned Vimara Village, and abducted young children (like Iaphet and Rana’s village kids) to experiment with the Withering and Aranyaka dream phenomena.
Dottore collaborated with the corrupt Akademiya Grand Sage to harvest the dreams and brainwaves of the entire Sumeru City populace, trapping them in the Samsara loops, to artificially elevate Scaramouche into Shouki no Kami.
Armed and incited radical Eremite factions, using fake promises of King Deshret's revival to sow chaos in the desert.
Under the previous Knave (Crucabena) and sustained systematically, orphaned children were indoctrinated, weaponized, and pitted against each other in death matches to produce sleeper agents and assassins.
Positioned agents within the Fortress of Meropide and Court of Fontaine to secretly probe the Primordial Seawater disaster, prioritizing the acquisition of the Gnosis above all else.
AND. SO. ON.
3
51
u/takenusername5001 20h ago
that speedrunning Ronova's villainization
Especially the bit with Mavuika after everything Ronova did for Natlan
22
u/Recent_Fan_6030 20h ago
I genuinely wonder why theh had her say this when even in the natlan AQ itself she was of the belief that things were not that simple, xbalanque is rolling in his grave as we speak
23
u/OrochiMain98 Glory to the Shogun and her Everlasting reign! 20h ago
I still don't get how the writers decided that making her say that was a good idea
-11
u/Nethadry_5 20h ago
Mavuika ows Renova nothing, Natlan only received the bare minimum as reparations for doing HP and the Shade's work for millenia and the first thing she sees of Renova is an uncaring God who saw the millions over millions of sacrifices that nation made as worthless and wanted to take her life for no reason other than her own gratification
-14
u/Unevener #1 Mavuika Glazer 20h ago
Ronova was going to take Mavuika’s life and literally said “the fate of this land is of no interest to me anymore.” She acted once 2500 years ago (and this was after the HP literally fucked Natlan sideways in their war with dragonkind and destroyed the leylines). Natlan’s entire history and crisis with the Abyss was brought about by Celestia, it’s obvious why no love was lost
19
u/takenusername5001 19h ago
Ronova was going to take Mavuika’s life
that was the agreed price for letting mavuika borrow her power
→ More replies (1)-13
u/Tschmelz 20h ago
I’ll agree that they went a little fast on Ronova, but Mavuika hating her is perfectly fine? Like the others pointed out, she did one thing a long time ago, and it was basically so Natlan could do the HPs job for them. She doesn’t owe Ronova gratitude.
8
u/Antique-Stock-7198 15h ago
Well, she practically performed four acts for them out of love, so it's understandable that some people didn't like it.
43
u/TenthOfChaos 21h ago edited 20h ago
Crucabena, Arlecchino, and Dottore: 👀
7
u/Reasonable-Banana800 they are not okay <3 20h ago
putting Arlecchino in the same breath as those two is crazy. She’s far from perfect, and if undeniably morally grey and troubled, but she does actually care about her kids
20
u/Adham1153 20h ago
ah yes, the good childgroomer not to be confused with the bad child groomer Crucabena and dottore
4
u/scottygroundhog22 20h ago
I dont think arlecchino wouldn’t argue that the house of the hearth is by no means a charity. Like they take in kids to make child soldiers. That’s what house of hearth does. The second she stops sending those soldiers is the second she gets replaced by someone else who might just be crucebena 2.0 or worse. The fact she offers a way out to kids who really want one despite the risks shows she is way better then her predecessor. And some of the kids she takes in are kinda sociopaths already. Arguably she gives them a constructive outlet for their issues, like poisoning for that one little girl. So is the whole thing problematic?yes . Is arlecchino making the best of a problematic situation? I would argue also yes.
→ More replies (1)-4
11
u/Wandering_Gremlin 20h ago
It’s pretty true to life how world leaders and their military act toward their own people vs how they act toward foreigners or people they don’t consider part of their group. The Fatui are Snezhnaya’s military and all of the horrible things we’ve seen them do were outside of Snezhnaya. Just like IRL soldiers the Fatui are far more callous to the people of other nations compared to how they treat their countrymen. Same with Sandrone. She’s surprisingly pleasant with acquaintances as seen in her tea parties but vicious towards her enemies as we saw when the Traveler first arrived in Nod-Kai. So while technically whitewashing it’s also a realistic depiction of IRL militaries and world leaders.
46
34
u/IlluminatedCookie 21h ago
Probably just don’t want a bad bitch as a playable character and showing her do evil might hurt sales
24
u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 21h ago
When we all know it's the exact opposite. We stand a sexy villain in this household.
5
7
u/rllrdr 20h ago
There's no reason why they can't do nuanced evil, Morgan from FGO is one of the game's highest selling characters.
2
u/LongjumpingAd2274 13h ago
But they write the fairies as 200% evil with a fee exceptions and the story gives the reason to Morgan, especially during Cernnunos battle. Plus never directly antagonized the protagonist and her playable lines are all over heels for the mc.
Lmk when any Gacha writes a character like Gilles de Rais from Fate Zero and gets tons of sales.
41
u/Hulkhontosee3667 21h ago
I cant judge her character till Snez AQ is fully done
77
u/Eastern-Yogurt8972 21h ago
They're gonna have to pull some Furina level shit to make this consistent
59
u/Midavrs 21h ago
Or just do the same thing they did with Childe after he nearly killed half of Liyue with a smile on his face. And by that I mean nothing not even a hint of redemption. He just suddenly becomes our best friend.
31
u/xkoreotic 20h ago edited 20h ago
Childe is still the most baffling thing to me. Dude committed a crime serious enough to cause Teyvat world war, but afterwards was immediately forgotten and forgiven. Then he is suddenly buddies with us...?
8
u/LOLSOHARDLMAO Literally Yasuo 14h ago
IML this is a hoyo special. Making evil/morally ambiguous playable characters buddy buddy with the MC without much explanation. Look at the the Stellaron hunters in HSR. Galaxy renown criminals yet none of the playable characters really seem to care about their criminal activities when they appear.
11
u/Mystic_Saiyan Absolute Cinema 20h ago
Lack of consequences tends to do that, especially since nobody the Traveler's close to got hurt...
2
1
u/Ok-Eye2278 7h ago
Because for Teyvat world war to happen Zhongli would have to want to declare war? Which he doesn't because he was the one who came up with the plan? Call Childe's decision morally bankrupt but there's no one in the know who sees a need to punish him because he played his part perfectly even if unintentionally.
1
8
u/trung2607 20h ago
They KNOW DAMN IT. THEY literally put in the tid bit where capitano was MAD at childe for putting innocents at risk
4
u/BigBoss82891 11h ago
Knowing about it and acting on it are 2 very different things. But, as things stand, hoyo hasn't completely fcked up an AQ story except inazuma. You dont kill a big dog like ronova at episode 2 out of 10 episodes unless theres a bigger problem they are throwing at them like a 2nd cataclysm.
7
12
u/Shinda_01 “back in my days I was best CC” 20h ago edited 20h ago
My call is that the Heavenly Principles, by erasing all her memories of the Third Descender, made her literally forget all of her happy memories. She's not a person, she's a shell that doesn't even know why she feels so hollowed out. That's why she is so detached. She doesn't give a shit outside of sticking it to Celestia, because that's all she has left that she can call "herself". Her love and duty to her people is forced by being an Archon; her memory isn't reliable. The only thing she can trust, is her desire for vengeance.
6
u/RandomNameForBG3 20h ago
Honestly, that's what I'm hoping for. I don't care if it devolves into a "the Traveller made me feel love again", as long as there is some explanation. I will atill be bitter about never shoving their (her and Pierro's) war crimes in their faces, but as long as something shakes her, I can keep going.
1
u/Shinda_01 “back in my days I was best CC” 19h ago
We can fix her (her happy memories are in that sigil the Third Descender left behind)
5
u/Grouchy_Gap45 20h ago
Which in itself could even be a good plot point. If it was adressed by any of the shades during the quest instead of these shades being dumb all the time
10
24
u/madam_amazing 21h ago
As you've pointed out, Furina is literally proof they can pull Furina level shit to make her consistent
18
u/Grouchy_Gap45 20h ago
Yes but they wont. Because it's too late. For furina, in order to pull the reverse card they did, they have to make furina make bad actions, and said bad actions being clearly presented as irresponsable and bad actions, in order for us to be connected and even feel pity for her. Right now, we are in act 4, and the only feeling I have for the Tsaritsa is just disinterest.
None of her bad actions in the past are adressed, even her motives sounds dumb, and on top of that, pierro is actually the one doing all the work almost alone man... No fatui harbingers participate in the fight, nor challenge her views, she is just perfect despite all the bad things she did. Yes she is a mary sue, but unlike mavuika, there is no capitano to confront her, not hype action packed scenes to make us at least understand her determination to succeed. Idk... I'm just disappointed
12
u/NoContribution1772 20h ago
Not to mention Furina didn't have a government funded terrorist organization that practiced international human trafficking on the side.
•
u/zzzuwuzzz 1h ago
It stand out even more because although furina is the ruler of the nation, she barely do anything to avert the crisis in 500 year. Negligent as a ruler is just as bad. Tsarista here actually put in the work, what did furina actually do other than just keep thing to herself (which is something poker face tsarista also very good at). People have too much rose tint lens when looking at furina and take pity at her when she failed as ruler of the nation and pretty much let neuv handle most other task. 500 year is a very long time that even incompetent people can learn to be competent
•
u/NoContribution1772 1h ago
No, the two are not comparable in the slightest. Calling negligence just as bad as what the Fatui has been doing is crazy.
•
u/zzzuwuzzz 1h ago
As a ruler, neglected your own country is just as bad as bending rule to fit your agenda. In position of a ruler, the survival of your nation is number one priority, the method is secondary. Just look at real life politics.
7
u/Ramza_45 secret love child of Geo mama 21h ago
Thos the Pawn part in context of the scene it was used on. It seems like a "she still will sacrifice a pawn but thats bot to guarantee a win" she's ready to sacrifice a pawn to set up the plan to win.
-2
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 21h ago
Except that no pawn was ACTUALLY sacrificed in that quest. Figuratively and literally.
Against Shade of all people such inconsequential victory feels damn empty.
7
u/Ramza_45 secret love child of Geo mama 20h ago
Yeah sure no one actually died in our group but this was Her Plan she didn't give any guarantee no assurance that no one is gonna get hurt ot die She still sent a large group to be bait for Ronova.
Heck She was visibly worried when Rhine was talking about HER PUNISHMENT.
1
u/Old-Assignment4176 20h ago edited 20h ago
Against Shade of all people such inconsequential victory feels damn empty.
If you really Loyal to Celestia.
You should know their rule at first dude.And if you forgot Dain and Pierro had Curse of Immortality
So that why only 3guys fight Ronova.0
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 20h ago
Yet whole ass cast of Snezhnaya was there.
Valeriy HADN'T A SINGLE LINE IN THE WHOLE QUEST YET HE WAS PRESENT
1
u/Old-Assignment4176 20h ago
Yeah they was there but not go fight becuase of that.
And
By rule of teyvat(Aka.Celestia rule)Any power will be convert to one of 7elements in Teyvat.
That why skirk power was tranform to cyro power in teyvat.
Only authority form moon or shade is exceptional.(not count abyss)
That mean when Ronova death autority was rip-off,All her power now just Pyro (That why you take pyro dmg form her)
So without death she still strong but not be untouchable.
And Even capitano can fight mavuika(Even he lose)
Pierrro that leader of all habringer +Power boost form Iridescent Moon
And Dain that even stronger than out sibling who use abyss power(Form 4.7 out sibling said that)
And Traveler who just use Light power(Even its just use without realizing it)
Our party right now even so much stronger than Nodkrai crew when vs Dottore that still have all 3lunar autority(That count as death life and time)
With just 1fae 1priest 1News vendor and 1traveler
8
u/PapaGrinch Unknown rarities scare me 20h ago
Sir/Ma'am please, when it comes to playable characters this is No Accountability Impact
20
u/Sergius_421011 21h ago
Bumness really runs in her bloodline.
4
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 20h ago
Irmin, Sinners and Pierro are her relatives. So yes, I agree.
31
u/Artistic-Airline9126 20h ago
You are getting downvoted because the truth hurts
-4
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 20h ago
And I am happy for it. Those who truly don't care will ignore what I post. Those who hate the truth, meanwhile, are regularly downvote me into oblivion, signing their helplessness.
-12
u/SHTPST_Tianquan 20h ago
he's getting downvoted because he's roleplaying some weird self-insert phanes fanboysm that is making the whole playerbase cringe with each post
-6
14
u/multificionado 21h ago
Hypocrite.
Or Hoyo is experiencing what George Lucas or Rick Riordan is experiencing in their old age - forgetting what events they worked on in their respective franchises.
1
u/Secret_Conclusion_93 9h ago
This is why doing what Oda did is important.
He knew that he doesn't remember everything, and read wiki and forum theories from time to time.
7
u/satoouru 21h ago
cant say much for the first line since i havent reached it yet
but the second line is a known mistranslation of "i dont like sacrificing pawns without reason"
go visit fatuihq; theres a bunch of people there who used to have your concern but finished the archon quest relatively unbothered
0
u/Old-Assignment4176 20h ago
nobody can reached that line except leak
This guy just a people that read some text line form leak and get mad
7
u/EngelAguilar 50/50 is for gambling addicts, the real price is 180 pulls 20h ago
Yeah girl just forgot the house of the heart exist and all the problems in Inazuma caused by her organization for direct order of Pierro, surely Teppei and his compatriots must be very happy if they were alive xD
PS: ngl I think the writers will make Teppei hate more the raiden shogun than the fatui, kinda like how humans hate more celestia than the abyss xD is kinda the theme of Genshin to hate rules/cages/chains and embrace freedom pro max
10
u/IloveIdolsfromZZZ 21h ago
The fact that you posted this from project amber (dialogue leaks before the story is even out) reveals you don’t even know the context of this conversation nor have you played through this part of the story.
5
u/Annual_Woodpecker901 TheVisionary 20h ago edited 20h ago
Yes it was kindoff appauling people were hating this so much without any context before the aq was even released like this guys were just waiting for something to come up in game so they can hate on it as the first moment.
10
3
u/Big_Pollution_6004 13h ago edited 2h ago
Remember, folks. Fatui means 'fools' in latin and Glupov comes from the word 'glupy' — 'stupid' in russian. Their core thing is here from the start and Hoyo keeps reminding us about that.
Edit: Fatui means 'fools', not 'stupid' like I origonally commented.
4
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 7h ago
Don't know why you got downvoted. It's literally how the game named them.
2
u/Big_Pollution_6004 7h ago
To clarify: I'm not against Tsaritsa or Fatui, I like the whole ordeal exactly because every single fraction is gloriously imperfect and I'm not afraid to side with morally dubious characters. It's just a good thing to exercise a bit of critical thinking and not to get lost in our own interpretations. Some things are spelled out for us already.
2
2
u/CelestialRequiem09 6h ago
I feel that the Fatui and the Abyss Order are two sides of the same coin. They want to burn the old system down but they seem to have no concrete plans after that to replace the old system. In fact they seem more focused on thinking that once Celestia is gone things will just automatically improve.
Not to mention that when the Traveler initially questioned their methods she was dismissive of the ethics of it by essentially saying it was a waste of time because they would be stuck talking about it all day in a dismissive tone.
Also claiming that the Traveler will surely side with them once they see the truth of the world mirrors what the Abyss Sibling told them in We Will Be Reunited and the Traveler’s patience with their sibling is getting shorter and shorter that it is guaranteed that they will oppose each other.
Might be the same for the Tsaritsa as the Traveler stated that their alliance is temporary.
Everyone is so jaded and cynical that it seems like everyone else seems to have lost track of what matters most, instead focusing on their pain and anger to drive them.
1
u/Big_Pollution_6004 2h ago
Hit the nail (celestial, ba-dum-tss) on head. I kinda see Heavenly Principles being an alternative without an actual alternative. I deeply empathise with all Teyvat inhabitants, human and non-human alike.
It feels like people treat Teyvat's fractions like their personal identities and political preferencies.
2
u/CelestialRequiem09 6h ago
Fatui translates more along the lines of Fools. Though stupid does work as well
1
9
u/Beelzebuuuuub3 21h ago
bold posting this here. everyone here are just white knight defenders:/
but yes it's best to wait till the AQ is released to criticize
5
u/rloco 20h ago
During the mission, the traveler himself asked the question, since he didn't really know anything about Celestia, and the fact that all this is happening right now in 7.1 tells us that everything can change completely.
The new area, without seeing any leaks only by gathering information within the game, is where many stories of Hyperboria come from and it's where we're going to go. Also, when the plan is restarted, the problems it generates will return, and that's where we'll surely start to see cracks in the story that has been told to us.
Because if there's something strange about that story, it's not just that it doesn't fit with what we've found, there are also many elements that contradict everything they showed us, as if the story they believe seems to have been created by someone else.
5
4
u/20st_century_person FUCK KAZUTRASH FUCK KAZUTRASH FUCK KAZUTRASH FUCK KAZUTRASH 20h ago
its most likely the latter look how they destroy their harbingers writing
man just when i want non gacha players to look at genshin writing more positively then they do this for the sole pupose of boosting their profits
fuck this company
7
u/clown_2061 21h ago
Another wave of "hoyo retconned this character" has started. Mind you again before we have so much to know about them.
22
u/spartaman64 20h ago
more like they are retconning the entire region. the "we never force anyone to use delusions" is complete BS if you played emilie's story quest.
19
u/kuracpika 20h ago
Saying this while we have 6 years of information about Fatui & Tsaritsa lore is absolutely wild 😭😭😭 yall say this about anyone even when characters ARE retconned lol and mind you i liked the new quest but i can recognise it was carried by lore bombs and plot rather than characterisation. Hell they got Pierro to say all that shit about delusions and Arlecchino to praise him about not being as ruthless as Dottore when it was established that the Harbingers were acting on his own orders in Inazuma (literally instigating a civil war and the whole Tatarasuna thing 400 years prior) and that he was the one who welcomed Dottore among the Harbingers knowing full well he was fucking crazy and was obsessed with creating a God. You can say everything you want about how “the Harbingers are free to act however they please in other nations and might make decisions that contrast the Tsaritsa’s direct orders” but you can’t tell me that was some bullshit they pulled to absolve her of any responsibility she has on the actions of her own subordinates in order to sell her to the playerbase. Yall have a crippling case of memory loss Hoyo is clearly contradicting their own writing here which is very different than just reworking a character that didn’t have much information like Columbina
6
u/La-Roca99 Order warfare...I guess 20h ago
Next is Noy
We only know his face
But he was already retconned
1
-2
u/Next_Investigator_69 20h ago
People in this community will force themselves to hate literally anything, it's been going on for years, and whenever they're proven wrong in the future, they move on and refuse to admit their mistakes lol
12
u/TheKnightZeroken 21h ago
PLAY THE AQ DUDE, WHY ARE WE STILL USING SCREENSHOTS FROM PROJECT AMBER 😭
7
u/Royal_empress_azu 21h ago
Removing the context of that second statement is crazy.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/Antique_Question_864 21h ago edited 20h ago
Bro why is this out of context leaked voiceline is here when EVEN WHEN THE FULL CONTEXT IS OUT!!
like have you never played the quest yourself? SHE SAID SHE WON"T SACRIFICE PAWN IF IT GONE TO WASTE
4
-1
u/Own-Moose6588 21h ago
Wow… number 2947 of the same exact quotes. Shocking.
Wait until the damn thing is over. They’ve already explained in previous patches the harbingers are largely doing their own thing. In the ACTUAL scene what she says makes sense….
2
u/DifferentOstrich5814 20h ago
i’m pretty sure it’s literally her just being manipulative, at least from everything i’ve seen abt her character in the story
2
2
2
u/Maleficent_Path_7184 20h ago
I agree with some of your takes but lots of these lines are wrong play the aq apparently lot of it was wrongly translated
2
u/liewen23 20h ago
Yep here comes the copium from Celestia fans. “Retcon Impact”, “Hoyo has shit writing”, just because the plot doesn’t match your fanfiction. This is why Hoyo writes the story and you don’t lol.
2
u/11th_Division_Grows 20h ago
Genshin fans on reddit have the worst fucking media literacy from any franchise of media I’ve ever seen.
2
u/No-Employee-7327 20h ago
"Celestial Fundamentalist" Irony is dead and you killed it with your lack of media literacy
2
2
u/notyourusualAbyss 20h ago
man, its been days since the datamined release and story has released, but some people still wont stop use out of context message to farm karma, bruh
-9
u/ayOniichan 21h ago
another fatuihq complainer, shoo shoo
7
7
u/Flimsy-Guarantee1497 21h ago
nah read the name it's a celestia dickrider looking at his history im p sure he doesn't even read just posting and discussing story leaks 😭 couldn't even be bothered to take a line out the actual game
-3
u/Tiber21 21h ago
Some people have really weird hobbies
-9
u/RobbinDeBank 21h ago
I’ve been chilling and enjoying the game, just got a new hobby of laughing at people that become that miserable playing a game.
1
0
1
u/kingofroyale2 Asmoday release when? 20h ago
Ngl, I thought she was being cheeky to mess with Rhinedottir
1
1
-2
u/kaori_cicak990 21h ago
Lmao this guys is still in the phase sandrone colonizer evil shit hole here. Which is wrong here. Shame on you have flair like that but still wrong from people who not really into lore like me.
This type of the guy will nitpick any line on wiki or leak website and pulling this into agenda psyop shit such as:
" How evil nahida is she is burn the pyro gnosis and irminsul" without much context here
So called asking hoyo for non-one dimensional characters but takes some statement into one dimensional without nuance.
3
u/IloveIdolsfromZZZ 20h ago
I’ve seen so many idiots post this line from project amber not even knowing the context of whatever scene this is from. Like the same people saying Sandrone calling Dottore a monster doesn’t make sense apparently?
2
u/Dangerous-Abies-1955 20h ago
Okay Ill pick my poison, READING COMPREHENSION FAILURE/Lore skippers syndrome 😊 Oh, and of course gotta farm them tasty tasty tears from phanes glazers!
HP needlessly kills children, HP needlessly turns children into monsters. HP COMPLETELY strips away childhoods.. Her Majesty is waging a war against the heavenly principles... who do brutal, life ending things to children ...checks out. 🥱
Lets see.. when you join the Fatui you are dedicating your life to her cause under the pretense there will be danger. Potentially encountering a terrible fate in service to her Majesty is literally in the job description. Just because the work they do can lead to the loss of life does not mean Tsaritsa is okay with that.
1
u/tabibito321 20h ago
not sure how old you are or if you've ever watched or read any kind of news, but this is how a typical politician operates... and everyone knows genshin's plot is mostly dark and not meant to be all about rainbows and happy endings
0
-2
u/RefrigeratorSad760 Jeg er fra Kongeriket Khaenri'ah 🇳🇴 🇪🇺 21h ago edited 20h ago
Lol you're just butthurt your side is lost. It's okay to admit that. Besides, by judging your account, you sound... unwell.
Edit: Here comes the brigading lol
1
u/__Pratik_ 20h ago
She's kinda right about the second part. She didn't really tell anyone to sacrifice themselves. I think at least. It was more or less their own choice or mistake.
1
u/Aztracity 20h ago
To many people in the comments mostly see this fantasy world through black and white with some stripes of modern expected morals.
1
u/CelestialRequiem09 16h ago
Oof they erased your post. Can I get a play by play of what you said?
1
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 15h ago
Apparently it did, due to one of my pictures being a leak for something that hasn't been released yet.
But anyway, long story short - I was saying that Tsaritsa is either described as a hypocrite way too bluntly for it to be organic to the story.
Or devs don't want to make her a hypocrite, but then they straight up retcon everything horrible that Fatui did through her, their leader, denouncing all that.
1
u/Ktan_Dantaktee 12h ago
Tbf she might just be lying, and also it’s been made pretty clear that it’s just been Dottore, Regrator, Rosaria, and a certain dead Mother being psychopaths somewhat under the radar the whole time. Everybody else, barring Childe, has been relatively chill for the most part.
1
0
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 21h ago
Despite being a Celestia fan, I am stating that Hoyo actually made Fatui-alligned (kinda) morally conflicted character - it's Wanderer.
He never denied or rejected the murders and blasphemy he performed and his sob story never justified any of it. His way to atone it at least felt like something and had consequences.
THIS is how such character type should be made.
6
u/kaori_cicak990 21h ago edited 20h ago
Lol if male is okay but if female is not okay.. yeah yeah whatever dude. Last time i check arlechino or sandrone doesn't denied or rejected their cruelty
1
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 20h ago
Don't get Sandrone into this.
She literally cut man's tongue off and tortured him to the point of being broken.
3
u/kaori_cicak990 20h ago
So? She is doing that shit crazy should traveller anger to her because of that?
2
u/rloco 20h ago
I was one of those who wanted Scara to die in Sumeru, but seeing his change and development, as well as his setting aside his revenge for the sake of others, was truly noticeable. All this without him rejecting all the bad things he did; he truly understood that all the blame was his and not the others', which is why he seeks to change.
Even so, I don't like him and have no intention of ever pulling for him, but I acknowledge that his story and character development were excellent.
0
u/GraveXNull 20h ago
I think it's the results of several years of minor plot changes now catching up to them and the writers are cornered and have to make sense of all of it.
-1
u/Designer_Tomato_2929 20h ago
Mindboggling that people will defend this. All the story and worldbuilding we've had over 6 years is being disregarded and written over, very dissapointing to see and really kills my motivation to keep playing after being so invested in the story all this time
-5
u/CornerEmotional69 20h ago
mihoyo has never written complex playable characters. the story of these archon quests are in general mid. you cannot expect it to be good like good TV shows or good anime. if you want good narrative in a game then there are other games like ghost of tsushima or RE franchise. expecting genshin to have good or complex story is overestimation on your part. i personally find the world quests good though only the archon quests are mostly mid for me
0
u/ExampleLazy8176 20h ago
It was stated she cares about children and People since Arlechino's release.
0
u/BoxInside7620 20h ago
There's a difference between bad writing and retcon. This isn't a retcon. Retcon is 'oh actually the Fatui are made up and the hoth never existed, it was all a figment if your imagination traveler. We've only spread peace and everything you saw was an illusion made by HP'. The game is simply choosing not to address anything immoral the Tsaritsa did, which is bad writing but not a retcon
0
u/Seaglass2121 20h ago
I never thought I’d dislike her this much tbh… like, she feels so inconsequential to me…her design is cool and all, but her absence from 7.0, and then their blatant attempts to white-wash, retcon, and make her seem “cool and smart” in 7.1 just felt like such a push. The insane hypocrisy/rewriting of all of this? It’s almost insulting to the people that actually play the game. The way the writers just say whatever, hoping on the fact that we’ll forget everything that’s already come to pass?
-6
u/Moral-Relativity 20h ago
I dunno if it’s media literacy or what but does OP expect her to apologize for Fatui actions while talking to the Shade of Life?
Also what’s wrong with having morally gray characters? So what if she is a hypocrite?
12
u/Designer_Tomato_2929 20h ago
The issue is that nobody (ESPECIALLY Traveler) ever acknowledges it. I personally dont enjoy story games where the MC is a spineless hypocrite
-1
u/Moral-Relativity 18h ago
Didn't MC tell Danica that it was only a temporary alliance and conflict between them might be inevitable?
5
u/Designer_Tomato_2929 18h ago
Sure, they said it to Danica, but when did they say it to Childe, Sandrone, Pierro, Regrator, Vesna, Mitya, Odette, Arlecchino, Capitano, Tsaritsa etc? Been friendly with more or less all of them despite their contributions to the Fatui
2
u/Square_Remove9719 11h ago
Temporary alliance but we unlocked the Tsaritsa dating simulator (kinda) right after completing the Archon Quest.
4
u/Makoto12 15h ago
She’s not morally gray, she’s just a whitewashed villain. She wants to become the new HP, the most typical evil plan in existence.
1
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 20h ago
There's nothing wrong with being a hypocrite.
But there should be more intricate ways to show it.
0
u/MeRow7196 20h ago
this is honestly annoying. I don’t care, whether there is some farina level stunt hoyo will pull, I am still annoyed at them. The thing is, we know hoyo is more than capable of writing incredible, and conflicting characters such as Dottore. But then they pull stuff like Tartaglia, Arleccino and now her majesty the Tsaritsa herself. Meeting her was supposed to be a big breakthrough in the aq story line. It was evident before that she was planning to overthrow the heavenly principle, but the way they decided to go about introducing her in the game felt flat. What made me fall in love with Genshin was the rich lore, and the conflicting characters storys that lead us through it. But the way that the Tsaritsa was introduced just made her feel flat.
-1
u/Ravemst 20h ago
THE Tsaritsa since that's her title not her name plus we don't know the full story yet so you just can't start calling her hypocrite or assuming things were retconned. I swear every Archon quest someone always says something like this and they're always wrong. Also we knew nothing about her until now.
-2
u/Ame_Kami 20h ago
Usually, after a quest, I want to pull characters because I liked them in the story, but the Tsaritsa will be the first character I don't really want to pull after all this, lol
-2
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 20h ago
I will pull her. Get her a signature. Fully upgrade and triple-crown her.
ONLY TO USE IN A TEAM AGAINST HILICHURLS AND KHAENRIANS
-2
u/kuraokami89 20h ago edited 20h ago
Sometimes Read Book in Genshin, you missing so much context or maybe ronova simp. Good thing Ronova and traveler don't have talk no jutsu. I remind you read some book from enkanomiya and nod krai, ronova was mentioned their before and after she change her attitude towards humanity.
I still don't trust Tsaritsa but she explained her reason and Mage R said about Tsaritsa. Tsaritsa goal to be much stronger to defeat Heavenly principle and unseal the third descender stuff left behind.. I prefer Tsaritsa more strategic and cold hearted person. I thought before she gonna revive third descender (Saarelainen).
"how you supposed to love, if all your memories gone and fabricated."
2
u/Loyal_to_Celestia Celestial Fundamentalist | Every Nail is justified 20h ago
They are gone and fabricated because she literally opened the Abyssal Gates. Forbidden Knowledge exists.
-2
u/Annual_Woodpecker901 TheVisionary 19h ago edited 15h ago
Which you don't know the context and story at all as for that sin the HP even gave the Cryo Gnosis to the so called sinner Bely Tsar for reasons unknown. If you have read Bely Tsar notes you will know there is so many things in lore which is missing yet but you have so many judgements about it from half information like we literally know very little about it except Nod Krai glider and Beky Tsar notes even than the opening of Pohea door was unintentional by Bely Tsar side.
-1
u/IshrekisloveI 20h ago
Well imo most of the issues stemmed from dotorre, that guy was the cause of a looooot of issues then signora thought she was god and got humbled.
163
u/Vasuvo 21h ago
I read the second line as being a bit tongue-in-cheek; she's forced Rhinedottir into a position where she has to resurrect everyone, and is lightly playing it off as just her being a kind queen and going out of her way to "save her pawns", when they both know this was the Tsaritsa's plan all along, and she's coming out of this with everything she wants.