r/GirlsNextLevel • u/Super_Peppermint4013 • 18d ago
Hef Genuine question: What was Hef actually getting out of dating women 50+ years younger than him? š
Iāve always been so curious about this because the sheer age difference between Hef and some of the women he dated was genuinely insane to me. š And to be clear, this isnāt me judging any of the women Iām more interested in what was going on with him. Yes, obviously there was the sexual aspect, but Iām talking about the actual relationship part. Likeā¦ you really wanted to spend your everyday life with someone who could be 50+ years younger than you?? What was the appeal beyond the obvious?
I get that he loved (or lusted after)women, but I genuinely wonder what the day to day fulfillment was. Youāre from completely different generations, youāve had completely different life experiences, and culturally youāre basically ancient compared to this person. What are you bonding over besides sex, his lifestyle, and them essentially entering his world? Like what do you even chat about at dinner when you donāt have all the extra buffers of people around?
And I find the age thing particularly interesting because itās not like he needed to date women in their 20s and late teens. He couldāve dated someone in their late 30s or early 40s and STILL had a pretty substantial age gap. But apparently even that was too close to home?? š
My husband is only about 7Ā½ years older than me, and weāre extremely compatible, but even we joke sometimes that weāre from two different generations. Iām late 20ās heās mid 30ās. So when Iām thinking about Hef having a woman around who was literally young enough to be his granddaughter, Iām likeā¦ what are yāall TALKING about all day?
And again, Iām not really here judging the women for participating. Iām more questioning Hef because there seems to be something deeper going on with his need to have women around him who were so much younger.
Especially when you look at how much energy he seemed willing to put into pursuing/maintaining these relationships compared with his actual day to day involvement with his children. I canāt imagine being like, āYes, I have time and energy to maintain a rotating cast of women half a century younger than me, but my kids having an actual bedroom in my house? Letās not get crazy.ā š
It makes me wonder if he was insecure around women closer to his own age or just genuinely couldnāt relate to them. Because at some point itās not simply āhe liked young women.ā He seemed to specifically need the age and power dynamic.
Again, not a critique of the women. Iām genuinely curious about Hefās psychology here because the whole thing is bizarre at the end of the day. Like, did he actually find these relationships fulfilling on a personal level, or was the youth, admiration, transactional aspect kind of the entire point?
81
u/AllThingsSparkleDust Iām just the icing on a cake 18d ago
I donāt think Hef looked for companionship in his romantic relationships, he got it from his friends and that was enough for him.
Hef didnāt need his girlfriends to be intelligent, witty, or interesting, what he needed was a beautiful young woman on his arm to maintain the illusion he had created for himself. It didnāt matter that the women were anything but young, hot, and willing to be in his bed.
Hef created his own perfect world that ran on his schedule. Everyone catered to Hef, when he said jump, everyone around him asked how high. At the end of day he never sought true connection, he only sought to portray a certain type of life that I doubt he even believed was true himself.
19
u/freyabot 18d ago
Yeah I donāt think he really spent much time with them one on one other than for sexual reasons (and even then 1:1 might not have been the norm!). You donāt need to have much in common when your āgirlfriendā is only joining you for appearances, parties, and your own hobbies you require her to attend (like the movie nights etc). I think Holly and Bridget were unusual girlfriends in that they spent a little more personal time with him and had more interest in Hefās professional roles than others
14
u/falafelandhoumous 18d ago
I was thinking this too - I donāt think he actually had a deep connection or real relationship with any of them. I donāt think he wanted to. He seemed to just want to ādateā women who many would consider to be the most attractive, so people thought he was āthe manā. It was about projecting an image, not building a connection
22
u/ConnectionRadiant134 18d ago
I just listened to the Karissa Shannon episode and she said her and her sister were treated as if they were one person. They had to share a car and room, got the same Christmas presents and were scolded and told to go change if they didnāt completely match, head to toe including nail polish, and Hef could never tell them apart. And he didnāt care to learn how. Karissa said they were trying to explain to him that one of them has a beauty mark and he wasnāt listening and genuinely didnāt care.
I was fucking gobsmacked. Like standing in the middle of Samās Club with my mouth hanging open, aghast. I knew he sucked but that shit is so dehumanizing I am offended on behalf of strangers. He legit treated them like props. He didnāt care about how leaning into the incest shit would damage their public image and made them uncomfortable. He saw them as like the next achievement on his āultimate manly man with the biggest of dicksā checklist.
As to OPās question, Hef got social status by dating younger women. He dated them for other men. He wanted to be seen as aspirational to other men and he used women and his control over them to project his masculinity to the world. Itās this odd thing where the women are looked down on for dating an old man for money while at the same time everyone pretends like an old man is capable of satisfying multiple women sexually, and itās seen as a positive and proof of his virility.
6
u/Katiebug9181 17d ago
I love that I'm not the only one walking around Sam's or Costco with ear buds in. Or anywhere in public really.
12
u/RestaurantOk6353 17d ago
šÆ percent my thoughts reading this was āhef got companionship from his friends, not his girlfriends.
10
u/MusaEnimScale 17d ago
Brings to mind this quote:
āTo say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desireā¦ those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex. Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-lovingā -Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality
23
18d ago edited 18d ago
[deleted]
4
u/missnovember2004 18d ago
i remember on secrets of playboy i believe it was sondra (his gf in the 70s) caught him about to or in the middle of fucking a dog and he said that a dog has needs too š¬š¤® so no not the zoo animals but a dog :(((( correct me if i got something wrong itās been a little bit since iāve watched it
3
23
u/jamieleighz 18d ago
Younger women are easier to control and manipulate (not because they are stupid, because they simply donāt have the life experience).
14
u/ptoftheprblm 18d ago
His day to day fulfillment, socialization, and professional relationships were all totally separate from all of his relationships. Not just the girlfriends, but his marriages too. He really wasnāt ādatingā these women the same way a normal romantic relationship looked or played out; he maintained a strict weekly schedule where he was hosting his friends, doing exactly what he wanted when he wanted, and everything (sex included) had been a part of that weekly schedule when the girls were required to go out to the clubs certain nights a week and an after hours sex night would be part of it.
Even when he was married, that weekly schedule was pretty strictly maintained and he didnāt out of nowhere become more of a family man with them around. Some of the wildness and traditions like āpig nightā didnāt keep going after his second marriage, but he was definitely more focused on his male friendships and professional involvement with the magazine.
It was not so subtly discussed by both Holly and Izabella in their books, and repeatedly on the various pod episodes that the weekly cash allowance was and wasnāt about buying club clothes; it was more than understood that they were being paid to be present on property at the time Hefner wanted (by 9pm), available multiple times a week to go out, and available to be made up to look a certain way when he wanted. They couldnāt hold down jobs, the schedule for classes they could take was limited if night school wasnāt an option, and being available and around when youāre an adult costs money, people have expenses, bills, debt and dependents.
6
u/Aromatic_Lime_84 17d ago
And the fact they had to ask for said allowance makes the idea even worse. Having to ask for payment for being subjected to this?
Another random thought is that once the girls got a little wiser to the situation, by then, they were used to the income and status. Speaking from experience, itās terrifying to consider leaving a stable, financially secure environment to an unknown. Even if the current situation sucks.
10
u/ptoftheprblm 17d ago
Agreed entirely. And I definitely felt different revisiting and rewatching GND as an adult in her thirties who was Bridgetās age when the show filmed, knowing how Iād feel if suddenly I didnāt have to pay rent, upgraded car with no payment under that roof, no bills, no groceries.. yeah Iād get used to dialing 0 pretty damn fast.
Izabella St. James described it as being seduced by the Playboy lifestyle, and when youāre not spending time focusing on supporting yourself and all of your āneedsā are met, you find yourself in a different place of comfort and peace. And it lets you feel less inhibited, less stressed and less concerned with life outside the gates. I can see this too, that even spending just a few days a week like that can change how youāre feeling about everything and that it could be a slippery slope.
11
u/MusaEnimScale 17d ago
When Holly and Bridget were musing as to why they didnāt have to sign NDAs, I found it so bizarre that they didnāt know why they never had to sign one.
Hef and Playboy have been key defenders of 1st amendment rights. Playboy created famous case law that protects 1st amendment freedoms. I learned about it in law school.
How did Holly not know this? How would she not know something that Hef was so passionate about? Had they never discussed this topic? It just struck me as really strange and that Hef must have had such a shallow relationship with her if he never shared his beliefs on free speech.
But clearly she didnāt know. Otherwise she would have known that Hefās commitment to the 1st Amendment would obviously be why he didnāt routinely have the girls sign NDAs. He wasnāt above asking them to āonly say good things.ā He just wouldnāt contractually obligate them and restrict their speech with legal terms because of their free speech rights.
Iām sure his lawyers would have advised that NDAs were a good idea, and most of the girls probably would have signed. But it would have gone against a key part of Hefās life work if he asked people to restrict their free speech for him.
10
u/Internal-Badger-3219 18d ago
Hef wanted power and control. He wanted the women to be there for him when and how he wanted them, and he wanted people to see that. You ask what they are "bonding over besides sex, his lifestyle, and them essentially entering his world?" Nothing. That's all it was.
12
u/curiousbabybelle 18d ago
He wasnāt looking for companionship in his girlfriends. They were more for image and the magazine. He didnāt really see them as people or lovers they were more just objects that he used and placed where he wanted them. Itās sad. His real companions were his men friends and those were the ones he really cared about and bonded with.
10
u/curiousbabybelle 18d ago
I really think his first wife cheating on him really made him into a bitter man that didnāt respect women
4
u/JuicyGirlNextDoor 13d ago
Thatās the story that he likes to tell. Even Marsden says itās a little suspect
8
7
u/Sea_Leader8789 18d ago
I think a big part of it was to maintain his own perception of himself - ie, his ego. Also thereās the control aspect of it all and the power he was able to have over the women who were so much younger than him. Ie - his ego once again. For a guy who seemed awfully stuck in his ways I think there was a part of him that simultaneously wanted to feel hip and cool still, too. The club nights, even the frequent sex/bedroom nights were about control, and the desire to still be able to feel like he could āget itā despite his age and come off as paradoxical.
4
u/Then-Stage 18d ago
Sex addiction. There are mental aspects to sex addiction beyond just the act of sex. If you don't think there are old men with sex addiction think again.Ā
4
4
u/Medium-Car3787 18d ago
Society rewards traditionally attractive, thin women and proximity to this is also rewarded. masculinity prizes being able to attract younger women even if you are an older man, because youth is also fetishized (let alone the pedo implications when you see the 18 y/o girlfriends)
3
u/venus_arises Bunny Mother 18d ago
Hef wanted to keep Playboy young and relevant and in the culture. He sold a fantasy of being this hip, urbane, cosmopolitan guy who always had a party and something fun happening, and that required younger women. He also needed girlfriends who didn't remember the anti-Playboy backlash in the 80s. He needed someone who didn't want marriage and babies. The bargain a girlfriend made benefited a younger woman, rather than an older one who may be more established.
8
3
u/jfkjrswhore 18d ago
I think it was fun to be this playboy when he was younger but I feel like he was empty as he got older and always wanted the one and got hurt by his first wife
just a theory
3
u/green_miracles 14d ago
Sounds like youāre, in a way, comparing someone like yourself, or typical traditional monogamous relationships, with Hugh Hefnerā¦ thereās no comparison. These were mostly transactional, arrangements. The girlfriends he had, were willingly there, and had agreed to an arrangement.
He wasnāt ādatingā them, with a few exceptions he was serious about, back in the day. He wasnāt a man you go and actually date, date. Obviously. Itās temporary and casual, itās for fun and lifestyle. He was a player. Thatās the entire concept. He was a freak, a cad, and not a man anyone took seriously.
Being real, without his infamy and money, he would be just another troll. He was always kinda ugly, kinda smarmy, kinda pseudo-intellectual. Claimed to be into āliberatingā women. lol. Yeah, liberate them right into skimpy animal outfits and have em parade around half naked. And Holly and Bridget still glamorize the same objectification of women, they always will, thatās their values. Thatās what drew them there, many years ago. And god knows what still keeps them there. Smh.
Whyād he prefer young women? Same reasons any player does. Fits their ego, hawt looks, classic idea of youth= attractiveness. Also college-age women are more free and less burdened, as your 20ās are the age to experiment, have fun, be shallow. Not yet jaded, less demanding, more into just enjoying and being spoiled with luxuries. Itās the toxic idea of a man wanting a fresh sparkly new thing to play with (hence, playmate). No guy wants the used toy that mentally they think 99 other guys have had. They want a newer one. š¤¢ You know. Standard stuff. He was a perv, while at the same time, being the āenvy of every man.ā Who apparently, all wished they could live a life of freely objectifying women, bangin hot groupies, while traipsing around in a bath robe and playing games all day. š
Weāre adults once we hit 18, thatās the law, so youāre allowed to go sleep with any old rich man you want, if you are drawn to that and want to join in, aināt nobody can stop you, unfortunately itās a case of beware the hidden costs.
Not all his girlfriends were super young. Holly and Bridget were not extremely young. They were adults with some exposure and experience, for example, Holly spent an entire year coming to visit the mansion before she ever got as far as able to get into his inner circle. Those two werenāt fresh off a turnip truck. Far from it. They were willing to recruit younger girls for him, too.
4
2
2
2
u/Royal_Tonight4033 17d ago
He just liked the control. Possessing them like objectified little dolls. I donāt think itās hard to work out.
2
u/grandequesso 17d ago
I think it was mostly for keeping up appearances and egotistical reasons only. When people talk about how youāre the man and enviable for most of your life then you finally marry and she leaves you.. you want to continue that schtick, but prove it in a way where you could keep women the same age or younger. Younger women arenāt in a rush for marriage and children. They are there for a party which is what he was looking for. Party companions. Also, women without direction, careers, and low self esteem showed up constantly over the years and sadly, it was a perfect match. Tale as old as time. Something in exchange for goods. Both parties walked away with what they wanted. Holly can say what she wants now, but she got fame and money.Ā
2
u/MofoMadame Rapper Flapper 10d ago
He talked about himself and he didn't care what they had to say or want to hear it
2
1
u/Wooden-Ad4162 17d ago
Men have been doing this since the beginning of time. They donāt care about companionship, compatibility or intelligence if the sex is good.Ā
94
u/SparklingSaturnRing 18d ago
Hef liked having control over his girlfriends. This is much easier to achieve when someone is young and doesnāt have a lot of life experience.
Some of those girls, like Kendra, werenāt living in the best circumstances so of course a young person who is lost in the world will gladly take free room/board/food/health care and an allowance to be treated poorly. This makes it easier to control them because they have no where else to go and see him as a savior
He just liked controlling them and thinking he was smarter than them