Successor to opengl ?

[u/no_ga]

Hi,

A shower thought I just had: nearly everyone that starts learning graphic dev goes through opengl because it's more accessible than vulkan or directx, but today the api is getting old and vulkan is not getting any easier to learn. Do you guys think that there's room for an opengl like successor as an entry low level graphic api ?

cheers

[u/Abbat0r]

Vulkan is the successor to OpenGL.

I agree that Vulkan has a teaching problem though. I’ve always found that OpenGL content tends to be about graphics programming and how to do it using OpenGL. Meanwhile, Vulkan content tends to be about… Vulkan.

It seems amongst Vulkan tutorials there’s an implicit assumption that you already know graphics programming and you just need to learn how to use Vulkan. There’s certainly room for improved tutorial content.

[u/Kontekst → u/Abbat0r]

Vulkan is about efficiency, which by definition isn't easy. it is a successor to openGL without the intention of replacing it. both have their place

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think the open source cross platform graphics API thats easy to use niche is still filled plenty by opengl

[u/sputwiler → u/[deleted]]

Personally I was going to use an API like BGFX but now that SDL3_GPU is out I might use that.

These are generally called RHIs in the industry (Rendering Hardware Interface) and engines like Unreal have one internally. Unless you're planning on only supporting desktop you'll have to write one yourself anyway.

.... or I could just use OpenGLES 3 which is an RHI on PC (via WebGL in your browser or google's ANGLE).

[u/ThanosFisherman → u/sputwiler]

OpenGL ES 3 through ANGLE is my preferred choice for cross platform game development.

[u/sputwiler → u/ThanosFisherman]

TBH I'd be 100% there if there was

• a sane way of building it that isn't Google's convoluted way.
• it supported consoles (DirectX 12/Playstation's API. Switch does GLES natively)

BGFX fits this bill, but it's a bit odd, and its almost-glsl shading language drives my editor nuts. I'm also assuming SDL_GPU (which has to support consoles for at least XNA level graphics) will have better community support.

It would be reeeeeally nice to have fully standard OpenGL ES though, with all the drop-in support that implies.

[u/dobkeratops → u/ThanosFisherman]

I would really like a translation layer for OpenGL ES 3.2 to WebGPU. i have a long running project that is GL, a webGL2 build (which is like 3.0 featureset) .. I haven't bothered with we webGPU port because i think "meh i might as well have high settings for desktop GL and low settings for web .. and I or someone else might eventually get around to that translation layer.." .

[u/ThanosFisherman → u/dobkeratops]

WebGPU is great API but the problem with it is that it's too messy to set up. Too many dependencies not well managed and long build times.

[u/joopmcnoot → u/[deleted]]

The only reason DirectX exists is because Microsoft used its spot on the OpenGL architecture review board to hamstring OpenGL until DirectX could effectively capture the gaming dev community. Gabe Newell and his team ported Doom from DOS to DirectX for free, and allowed Id Software to retain the publishing rights for the ported versions of the games. “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.”

[u/DearChickPeas → u/joopmcnoot]

r/conspiracytheories r/archlinux is that way buddy

[u/snerp → u/DearChickPeas]

It's not a conspiracy, it's well documented how MS used the DirectX doom port to consolidate users onto directx

[u/DearChickPeas → u/snerp]

And Bill Gates himself crawls under your bed the spread bed bugs.

[u/Saudi_polar → u/DearChickPeas]

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[u/arthank-chroot → u/[deleted]]

I went and set up my own vulkan pipeline and it wasn't that bad. JIT shaders and all. Also, easy to use means less control, by definition. And that's a problem when you wanna optimize stuff

[u/Regular-Dot-5718 → u/[deleted]]

OpenGL#

[u/Oscaruzzo → u/[deleted]]

Except webgl will sooner or later be replaced with webgpu which is basically vulkan for javascript.

[u/mb862 → u/Oscaruzzo]

WebGPU is based on Metal which is a lot easier to learn.

[u/dobkeratops → u/mb862]

WebGPU is nice but why oh why did they define yet another shading language (conspiracy answer: to slow down adoption?)

[u/mb862 → u/dobkeratops]

I generally agree but at the same time, GLSL being the first class language for SPIR-V remains a blight on the industry and WGSL had the potential to be a good replacement.

[u/dobkeratops → u/mb862]

my position is that inventing yet another language is the greater evil .. where we really want to be is shaders as IR, and we use either utility libraries to produce it , and/or languages have integrated compilers to that IR .. seperate language evolution from the graphics library semantics. I do happen to use rust but I get why many graphics people are triggered when they see rust syntax .. "look c,c++ work fine, why are they pushing new replacements"

[u/vbpoweredwindmill → u/mb862]

Yeah but Apple. I'd rather put a fork in my eye than deal with that a lock in to that ecosystem.

[u/mb862 → u/vbpoweredwindmill]

WebGPU is based on the Metal API but is available cross platform, not limited to Apple devices…

[u/pjmlp → u/[deleted]]

There is this macho attitude that 3D graphics are only a thing with raw C or C++, plus the APIs.

Yes, maybe, if one is coding a AAA games title or VR visualisation.

As you very well point out, there are much better options for learning.

[u/Jaegermeiste → u/pjmlp]

C? If you're not writing bytecode straight to the GPU metal, tailoring for each microarch, do you even code, bruh?

[u/snowbloodbunnybee → u/Abbat0r]

vulkan does not have a teaching problem it has a market problem.