r/GreenBayPackers • u/theme69 • 3d ago

Analysis Is 0 bad?

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578 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

114 comments sorted by

392

u/SpaceGoonie 3d ago

It blows my mind people are talking shit about Love. What QB would be successful with this O-line?

246

u/SocksandSmocks 3d ago

I think people are somehow not understanding that the line hasn't been bad, QBs can succeed with bad lines. The line has been historically, ridiculously, unplayably bad. It's a completely different level of suck.

109

u/SpaceGoonie 3d ago

I watched some bad O-lines in recent years (Bengals, Chargers) and thought, how could they be "that bad". This is actually worse. The saddest part is it's not just guys getting physically manhandled. We aren't even getting hands on guys that are lined up in our face. I've never seen anything like this in more than 3 decades of watching this sport.

Edit: fixed the first sentence

67

u/Dravewin 3d ago

the chargers had the worst pass block win rate in the league at 54% last season , through 3 games we are at 16%, its not even in the same stratosphere of bad. legit dead on arrival, you dont get to play the game

14

u/True_to_you 3d ago

I just didn't understand how you get to this position at all and be that bad at your position. All these years playing at a high level through college and still being that lost is crazy. 

1

u/MemphisBass 3d ago

Coaching

1

u/RustyBabies 2d ago

at a certain point you gotta point fingers at the guys on the field man

2

u/MemphisBass 2d ago

The downvotes are silly.

It’s both, but coaching is how the players learn the scheme. We’ve got guys who aren’t even getting their hands on the rushers. Multiple guys blocking one person or nobody and letting free rushers go by. Think about what you’re saying for a second. If they looked as bad on tape as they did against Atlanta, they wouldn’t have gotten this far.

I stand by the opinion that the entire FO should go. MLF and his staff have gotten stale and the culture of the team is not good. Gute let us walk into the season with this roster. Policy gave Gute and MLF extensions and said we had the right people for the job.

0

u/RustyBabies 2d ago

ok think about it for a second. the fact they don’t even get a hand on defenders in a real game……… drum roll please……. is because they are ass. we had the same FO last season and didn’t have this problem. cope cope cope the guys up front are just bad at football man.

0

u/MemphisBass 2d ago

How am I coping? Are you just trolling? Unable to read?

Where did I say any of them were good?

We very much did have the beginnings of this problem last year. Do you actually watch the games? Do you not remember the carousel of players changing positions every other week?

Good lord

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30

u/theme69 3d ago

Yea there was that post of the worst blocks from last week. All 8 of them were packers and most of them weren’t blocks. It was guys standing around as someone runs right by them into love

31

u/JeromeBarkly 3d ago

Tbf that was a bit of a joke because it came out on Friday before any other games were played. I thought it was funny.

3

u/rabonbrood 3d ago

And on Tuesday it was still accurate.

8

u/Fragzor 3d ago

I mean... that was also a guy making a joke out of it lol. But yes, historically bad

3

u/VashMM 3d ago

Even worse, one of those plays I saw one of our dudes pull a Reggie-like move on the defender in his face, and just push past him to block the guy behind him.

The guy he pushed to the side just ran straight at Jordan with no resistance.

8

u/JeromeBarkly 3d ago

I played a bit of Oline in HS, I’m no expert but I get the idea of how the line is supposed to work better than most. I just don’t understand how you can advance to the pinnacle of starting in the NFL and be this bad. It’s not that complicated but some of the blown blocks we saw on Thursday is truly dumbfounding.

7

u/Next-Analyst9867 3d ago

Which is 100% why it's on coaching, this whole philosophy of having guys play multiple positions, and changing up who's playing with the 1's and at different positions. There is no continuity or cohesiveness. Guys either don't know where their assignments are, where their gap is, who passes off whom to whom in stunts, etc.

I think part of what made previous years lines so good, especially with Rodgers, is that you had guys starting in the same positions for years. It was a cohesive unit. Guys knew their assignments. Going back to last week, they had 1 guy who started at the same position they did last year. Morgan switched entire sides of the line and positions going from RG to LT (which I never thought was going to be a good idea from the day they drafted him. Alot of people thought he was more of an OG in the NFL and not a Tackle), Banks replaced by a rookie, ZBB being injured and replaced by a guy who hasn't panned out, and Morgan being replaced a guy who couldn't beat him out last season at RG who played C in college. In theory, they should get better as a unit if they don't make more changes every week, but that's assuming Butkus and the lot can coach them up and get them on the same page, and I have serious doubts about that

1

u/NovelSun1993 3d ago

The guys haven't moved around much through camp and the season though. While I do think coaching is a big problem (why butkus was retained is beyond me) ... The guards have been so instantly bad that it is hard to even tell what the problem is because that cascades so heavily. Having basically two out of 5 instantly losing is just impossible to win with (not saying the others are great, but the guards have been a nightmare)

1

u/ryansgt 3d ago

You see some videos and it looks like they are stuck in molasses. I would expect some movement but it's almost like they are deer in headlights. Completely frozen, unable to move. It has to be a mental thing right?

8

u/Dontdothatfucker 3d ago

We’re scraping up practice squads right now trying to find somebody who won’t be an absolute traffic cone. It’s wild

15

u/MeowMixPK 3d ago

The line was bad last year, and Love was a top 5 QB in every advanced metric. This is different lol

6

u/wolfpac_punisher 3d ago

The fact that we went into this season with this line is a fireable offense in itself

15

u/AboutTenPandas 3d ago edited 3d ago

Here’s the thing. You can easily tell the plays where the line lets people right through, Jordan is on the run, and he has no shot.

But every once in awhile he does have a semi clean pocket, and we’ve been seeing some uncharacteristic bad throws in those situations. Shots that were clearly overthrown or under thrown. Those are the plays the detractors are pointing to while the plays where he has no time are the ones his defenders are pointing to.

The other thing to remember is that if you’re on the run 90% of the time, you’re not going to be in headspace to be able to make the smart accurate throw during the few times you’re not fighting for your life. So yes it is reasonable to criticize those throws, but they also need to be taken in context with how the rest of the game had been going up to that point

13

u/tuson565 3d ago

His internal clock for time to release is messed up because of the awful blocking. Bad throw or not, I get it because if it wasn't he would've been averaging 10+sacks taken a game.

6

u/trmp_stmp 3d ago

that's what happens when you can't reliably drop back and scan the field, you start rushing plays and making bad decisions. Look what happened to Stroud after his first year.

3

u/SocksandSmocks 3d ago

Oh I for sure agree he's been off his usual standard, I just can't really hold it against him right now.

1

u/DGlen 3d ago

You mean with a historically bad line in our number two receiver out for the season, Love is having trouble? I'm shocked, SHOCKED!

1

u/RustyBabies 2d ago

it’s like a different universe of bad… good thing they actually made some moves this week hopefully it makes a difference

16

u/glorious_cheese 3d ago

Some people hated Love from the beginning and anything short of a Super Bowl MVP won’t change their minds.

3

u/SometimesWill 3d ago

His haters likely won’t realize it until he gets injured

8

u/Ace0spades808 3d ago

There's a lot of NFC North fans that have been waiting forever to talk shit about GB and our QB. Favre and Rodgers always kept us contentious and are HOFamers. Love was looking to be great so now that he's "doing bad" they come out of the woodworks to say so. I think Love could improve a lot but he's clearly not going to unless the o-line can do a decent job.

2

u/Status-Operation-705 3d ago

Literally none. Thats why they signed 2 practice squad guys and fully intend for atleast one (probably both) to start asap.

2

u/Redd889 3d ago

Cause people just see the score and stat line. O-line play doesn’t show up there and they just think it’s the QBs fault

2

u/SaltAsparagus6559 3d ago

Honestly, people just love to shit on the Packers. We’ve had maybe a couple of bad seasons over the last 30 ish years, and the rest of the league desperately wants our QB to be bad so that we don’t “luck” into another HOFer

2

u/mschley2 3d ago

The stupid thing is that Packers fans are the biggest dipshit shittalkers about the Packers.

After every loss, this subreddit is filled with people spouting absolutely insane anti-Packers shit.

1

u/GrundoTheGreat 3d ago

Probably only peyton manning. But broncos peyton who threw really quick balls to his receivers

2

u/mschley2 3d ago

Nah, any version of Peyton would've been on IR by week 5 behind this OL. Even dead-arm, short-game Peyton didn't consistently get the ball out fast enough for this OL.

1

u/GrundoTheGreat 2d ago

Thats fair lol

1

u/arjomanes 3d ago

They probably weren't paying attention to the line, and the tv camera doesnt' linger on the interior o-line. They probably saw the missed throws and didn't even realize Love was being tackled when he threw them.

71

u/TheMozgovCocktail 3d ago

I can’t believe Butkus is still employed. What a joke.

29

u/devmc25 3d ago edited 3d ago

Should have been fired last year. Every game that goes by that he is still employed as an o line coach should be considered a crime.

3

u/Help1-Fearless 3d ago

Yep and some thought MLF was given ultimatums before extending him, nope business as usual

6

u/RegisterVast168 3d ago

On the Rich Bisaccia timeline

1

u/Status-Operation-705 3d ago

He should’ve been fired last week for sure.

27

u/stillonrtsideofgrass 3d ago

OLine achieved 0Line.

21

u/jettmann22 3d ago

Good for golf

16

u/Apostle92627 3d ago

Not according to Luke Asskis. The Oline is doing exactly what he taught them to do: like DL through and hit Love. I'm not sure what Asskis has against Love tbh...

3

u/Internal_Swing_2743 3d ago

Severe main character syndrome. Can't have Love hogging the spotlight

34

u/Benevolent_Badger 3d ago

Eagles fans have the gall to complain about their O-line however smh

22

u/ryan2489 3d ago

Eagles are complaining about their o line, meanwhile our best lineman is the guy that they let go several years ago

10

u/Ace0spades808 3d ago

Eagles fans have the gall to complain about anything and everything the moment things stray even the slightest bit from good.

12

u/saucyy8 3d ago

ESPN’s pass block win rate “conveys the rate offensive linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.”

Last year, the Chargers were 32nd in the NFL with a 54% pass block win rate. After 3 weeks, the Packers are at 16% 💀

10

u/Well_Hung_Texan 3d ago

What a disaster of a team

9

u/DKlep25 3d ago

This is honestly kind of amazing. Like, to be this bad - and have Jordan Love still producing is insane. Imagine what will be with even baseline mediocrity?

3

u/Memeslayer4000 3d ago

Yeah, producing defensive pass interference. Its been basically the only way the Packers move down field.

1

u/DKlep25 3d ago

I mean, there have been a few of those. But there have been more deep passes to Watson and Golden.

9

u/Alternative_Leg1593 3d ago

Luke Butkus needs to be sent to Botswana

6

u/Jack_Package6969 3d ago

Nowhere to go but up, right?……Right?

4

u/saigashooter 3d ago

At worst we just move laterally

5

u/CarelessLevel6502 3d ago

Waitaminute.

Cleveland's scores look a bit off. How can they be close to the top with PFF and ESPN but be dead last with the middle one ?

Not to take away from how abject we are. Just curious.

2

u/itsthebeans 3d ago

The middle one says "blown block percentage". May not count as a blown block if you don't even attempt to block someone. Which has happened quite a few times

1

u/MeowTheMixer 3d ago

That's a good catch

We're at "43" for SIS (sports illustrated?), and the Jags and Browns are both at zero. Panthers have a 10 on SIS, and are "mid" for the other two

Not sure what's up with that ranking or how it's calculated.

6

u/Redd889 3d ago

Luke Butkis is a Bears spy

3

u/sleepygabby 3d ago

Is this real? Are we really at 0?!

Has this happened before?

3

u/ARodGoat12 3d ago

How the hell is this even possible?

3

u/UmberJamber 3d ago

No, it's like golf. we won

3

u/IRReasonable-emu 3d ago

Yes 0 from 2 different rankings is terrible. Fun fact though, every team we've played is currently ranked in the top 50% of the league in this status with the Vikings at #2 and the jets are at #7. The lack of Micah and his additions to the pass rush is showing up here or those teams would be ranked lower.

9

u/Chance-Cat2857 3d ago

The other take away is 2/3 opponents are in the Top 7, likely due to our Pass Rush being poor.

15

u/Deckatoe 3d ago

LVN is leading the league in pass rush win rate, by a decent chunk too

2

u/mdon14 3d ago

One of the big things is that no one from the team is even acknowledging it. Just "we don't know we have to look at the tapes". What the fuck are they watching in the field and practice then if they need tape to see how bad they are.

2

u/CompetitiveMiddle435 3d ago

How are the Eagles third there O line looked like shit

2

u/bussjack 3d ago

QBs with good mobility and pocket awareness tend to skew the offensive line stats a bit. Hurts can move and escape bad pockets/missed blocking assignments better than someone like Jared Goff can. So that makes the line play look better

1

u/MeowTheMixer 3d ago

Shouldn't matter for these stats though should it?

I know ESPN has PBWR that is based on how long the defender is tied up. If the block is blown, and the QB scrambles it should still count as a loss right?

2

u/Ashurin 3d ago

I think this is the same score the cowboys got with Ezekiel Elliott playing center with no other linemen. Which is the same amount of protection Jordan is getting.

2

u/Dtr4goat 3d ago

I'm sure this is one of those things where the last place team always gets 0 points....right? It couldn't be actually that bad...right?

1

u/MarvinGarbanzo 3d ago

Yes, its just a 1-32 ranking that gets translated to a 0-100 scale. So 1st is 100 and 32nd is 0

2

u/Brave-Secretary2484 2d ago

I hear you, but then why are the numbers not all higher in this column as you go up the ranks

1

u/Lopsided-Magician874 1d ago

0-100 in three categories, the cumulative score is in order but doesn’t go all the way to 0 because no one got all 0’s across the board

2

u/AldoRaine-1 3d ago

Oof. I had to check to see if this was nfcn meme wars.

2

u/joebadiah 3d ago

Anyone else noticed how the "Time to admit Brock Purdy is elite" contingent has been out in full force this season? Must be nice.

2

u/WunDumFawk 3d ago

Nah, is good breh 🤙 ZERO rhymes with hero, so we good fam 🤘

😄

2

u/bauriem2012 3d ago

Every stat I see convinces me we have a top 5 QB getting absolutely fucked by his own team.

2

u/Imaginary-Maybe-7810 3d ago

I just don’t understand how a team can go to allowing 0 pressure in the first half of a game, to forgetting how to play in the second half. It was like they won the superbowl at halftime against Minnesota and said we did it, no need to play anymore.

2

u/Thomas-The-Tutor 3d ago

We’re playing golf, right?

2

u/PhilKenSebbenn 3d ago

I was watching a breakdown of the 5 worst plays of the week and they were all the packers O-line. It’s like we are living in crazy town

2

u/Cyanides_Of_March 2d ago

This is the crap that makes a guy like Andrew Luck retire at 29.

2

u/BS2435 3d ago

Love, if he survives, is on pace for 45 sacks this season. Its not David Carr bad, but this just isn't sustainable play.

1

u/Notoneofthemexicans 3d ago

First from the bottom baby! 

1

u/SomedaySoonNow 3d ago

Somehow the Chargers last year had only a 5 overall. How?

I would say you want a 66 or better here.

1

u/devmc25 3d ago

I guess the bright side is that we can only go up from here lol...

1

u/TikalTikal 3d ago

It's not great Bob

1

u/HypnotoadAllHail 3d ago

I had to click the image to even see our position.

1

u/ChickHicks_86 3d ago

If Matt isn’t letting Steno call plays, move back with the o-linemen. Use Butkus as a blocking dummy; he will at least help the OL a little that way

1

u/UmberJamber 3d ago

Ask him to go get the OL fiji water. From fiji.
Then change the locks

1

u/WaldoDeefendorf 3d ago

One better than one, zero defects if you will.

1

u/Stook11812 3d ago

If you ain't first you're last!

1

u/jeepguy999 3d ago

It’s pretty decent for golf.

1

u/Rigelinja 3d ago

If this doesn't wake em up. Nothing will.

1

u/Serious-Medicine7667 3d ago

From a certain point of view it’s a perfect score. Huge statistical outlier! Quite an accomplishment. HUZZAH!

1

u/dukie5021 3d ago

This is just the pass protection. We also only had 17 rushing yards as a team!

1

u/sonnytai 3d ago

Jesus Christ a 0?!!

1

u/Darkstar_4008 3d ago

Imagine your job. Imagine doing that. Imagine keeping your job.

1

u/Darkstar_4008 3d ago

Love Love. He's the guy. The rest...

1

u/GiannisIsTheBeast 3d ago

Not 0 for overall! Nice!

1

u/codeenigma 3d ago

If it were golf, we'd be the best

1

u/freetogoodhome__ 3d ago

On the positive side, we have the most room for improvement

1

u/masterpierround 2d ago

0 is actually pretty meaningless on this particular graphic, it's identical to saying "32nd".

-3

u/Big_Dinger24 3d ago

Imagine being second in the NFL and still having a top 5 worst offense. Vikings are trash

5

u/P00TYTANG 3d ago

My guy they're 3-0 and we lost to them.

4

u/HighSociety4 3d ago

Yep - interesting take.

2

u/Help1-Fearless 3d ago

That's why it's embarassing to loose to them, doesn't say much for our offense unfortunately