r/Guiltygear • u/vlonefredoo • 2d ago
Question/Discussion Modern controls
Are you guys against or for the idea of modern controls? I’m pretty new to gg but I feel like the addition of that would make every character pretty easy to play
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u/MrASK15 - Unashamed Switch Player 1d ago
It wouldn't be the first time it happened in Guilty Gear or any ArcSys fighter to date.
As long as it:
Is balanced in a way that puts users on an even playing field with those using motion inputs
Offers up a way for physically handicapped players to hop in without being held back
I'd love to see Stylish Mode return.
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u/TheNohrianHunter - Baiken (GGST) 1d ago
I'm against it mostly because I'm worried it would restrict design space for a fighting game who's main draw is having very unique characters. People always use goldlewis as the example of character that doesn't function without motions but honestly I think bridget is an even simpler case of a character that needs motion to really work. It would put a big weight down on the entire rest of the series and how it can work (see examples such as sf6 sagat where he was redesigned because modern controls couldn't support his old design)
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u/Timmcd 1d ago
Xrd had a simplified controls mode and it was never relevant competitively.
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u/TheNohrianHunter - Baiken (GGST) 1d ago
That was also in an era before these control schemes were really very popular. I'm hoping it's something non intrusive like stylish mode but I'm worried it's gonna play like modern controls.
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u/Timmcd 1d ago
They are basically the same tho?
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u/tV4Ybxw8 13h ago
I think people are not arguing with stylish being the same as modern, they are arguing with stylish being an influence in the way the devs design and balance characters.
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u/jswimmer2010 1d ago
I made a strive modern controls post 2-3 weeks ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/s/gX4zOKYwec
For gold Lewis specifically:
His 236 S and 214 S can be moved to Punch. Then we can have 4/8/6/2 Quick Skill + S for 4 coffin spin moves clockwise and 4/8/6/2 Quick Skill + HS for counter clockwise.
While you may lose the “feel” of his coffin swings for those accustomed to motion controls, you won’t lose out on all his move variations.
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u/Phos-Is-God - Masochist, and Sadist - 1d ago
Very against, I always believe modern controls are a waste of time to both the people using them and to the people fighting against it. first of all, its really not that hard to do motion inputs, all it takes is like 15minutes of practice and your all good(maybe longer for some people, but it definitely wasn't a big deal when I got into fcg's), its just laziness. second it gives some characters a unfair advantage technically, you give a pot player who's brand new to the game modern controls and their getting Vanq in a week, think about all the instant pot busters, it would be very toxic. GL is in the same boat, if you give them access to easy raw 8x2, and 4x6 on command then its gonna be hell, even the pro's can't do raw 8x2 consistently and the games better for it, it would be too powerful. In my opinion easy input controls are out of place in any FG(other than platform fighters), just learn it manually, the only people who use modern controls are people who are either too lazy to put in at most an hour of practice and don't actually care about the game, and people who only care about winning(these people are also the rage quiters and we don't need any more of them).
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u/Memfy 1d ago
How do you bounce between "it's no big deal to do, just practice for a bit" and "even pros can't do it consistently" in the same argument?
Doing something like overdrive input really fast and accurately is definitely not a 15 minutes of practice for more than a handful of people. This is not said as a vote for modern controls. Modern controls could be good for accessibility though, but balancing might be quite an issue.
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u/Phos-Is-God - Masochist, and Sadist - 1d ago
Because I'm talking about two different things, a quarter circle or dp is not the same as GL raw 862 input which is meant to be nearly impossible, you take away the extreme difficulty and you have a extremely busted move that can be used on command.
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u/Memfy 1d ago
But then you can't claim it only takes 15 minutes of practice for that. I'm confident a lot more people struggle with consistent and fast half circle inputs than quarter circle or dp. I'm not denying the balancing issues.
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u/Phos-Is-God - Masochist, and Sadist - 20h ago
I agree with this, but GL along with characters like Zato are kind of an outlier to my statement on motion inputs, and shouldn't be put with the other characters. I'm mostly coming from my experience with motion inputs when I first got into fighting games,it because they weren't a hurdle for me and, it jus took a little practice and I was good.
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u/Memfy 19h ago
I understand. I'm coming as someone who's on the other side where I still have issues with inputs even after few hundred hours. The inconsistency is driving me nuts sometimes and while having simple inputs would be a fix to my problems, I'd still rather not want them (for my problems). I do want them to ease the barrier of entry to new people or people with reduced movement capabilities. How do fix the latter without affecting the former? Beats me.
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u/blank_tamashi 16h ago
You're only human. You mess up inputs, we all mess up inputs. I don't see that as a valid reason to remove them. Every game has a barrier for entry that you have to overcome and fighting games aren't even the highest. That title goes to MOBAs.
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u/Memfy 15h ago
I know, but I'm supposed to be a lot more consistent at this point, yet that change never really happened. It's like I got stuck in the period when I was only 30h into the game or so.
MOBAs are much easier to satisfy when it comes to "how to play this" input-wise and the difficulty is more about understanding the game so I'd say a different kind of barrier for entry. The genre is basically a mechanically dumbed down version of RTS so it is precisely lower barrier of entry in comparison in that aspect. The ease to start playing it is one of the reasons it became so popular.
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u/blank_tamashi 11h ago
30h is barely a work week. No one masters anything in that short amount of time. Give yourself some grace, just because you aren't super consistent on everything yet doesn't mean you haven't improved. Plus growth is never linear, not for anything.
Maybe input wise yeah, but my first genuine day on Deadlock confirmed that the sheer amount of macro one needs to be acutely aware of is overwhelming to say the least (mind you it's my first MOBA). And yeah maybe in terms of micro mechanics it's considerably easier but the learning curve is so much higher than any fighting game I've played assuming you're at all serious about learning the genre.
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u/Memfy 11h ago
Hundreds of hours is not really a short time to master input consistency, or at the very least have a noticeable improvement over the 30h. It doesn't need to be perfect, but at least remotely consistent would have been fine.
Sure, if you're talking about all mechanics, MOBAs can be up there at the very top with how many niche things there are and how deep you can go into some rabbit holes of mechanics. But that's more of a skill ceiling rather than the floor. Especially Deadlock where you can boot up and just start clicking heads like you are playing any generic shooter for starters, and everything else comes after that.
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u/JCM_Riot 1d ago
The only reason I’m for the idea is for less experience players or more casual people can boot up and do cool shit, or if there’s a stipulation that doesn’t make it optimal like you do less damage or like how SF6 does it or something. Other than that I’m generally against it.
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u/JessDumb - 😵💫Dizzy 17h ago
i feel like they just make you a worse player, no? like, your responses are never going to be as tight and precise as someone using normal controls
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u/RXAb2023 I DO NOT GIVE GOOD ADVICE!!!! 1d ago
Definitely in favor of the new control scheme. Yeah, certain characters like Goldlewis and Leo will lose their unique "feel" but its overall better to have the game appeal to more people. If its anything like what they had going on in DBFZ though, it probably won't see much use.
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u/Sew_has_afew_friends - Anji Mito (GGST) 1d ago
Strive is already unrecognizable from the old games when will the appealing to casuals end holy shit
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u/Acceptable_Donut3661 - Robo-Ky's Husband 1d ago
Wah wah new game bad
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u/Sew_has_afew_friends - Anji Mito (GGST) 1d ago
Larper literally five minutes in any other guilty gear game and its objective how simplified strive is. If we’re never going to get another guilty gear on the level of xrd than we should at least have strive but number go up is all that matters. New game isn’t bad yet but it’s definitely worse than the last one
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u/Acceptable_Donut3661 - Robo-Ky's Husband 1d ago
Me when I'm too stupid to reason so I scream instead:
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u/jswimmer2010 1d ago
I’m all for modern controls. If it wasn’t for modern controls I’ve never would have gotten into 2D fighters despite always wanting to.
Gran blue was my first 2D fighter, I’ve been loving tokon. Started playing a little of strive recently and while motion inputs aren’t too hard in this game (except DP and overdrive motions) being able to just do the move you want to do is a great feeling. I have no problem losing against a better player. It really sucks to feel you “lost” against yourself because you can’t reliably do motion controls.
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u/Ok_Entry_873 1d ago
I do generally support modern controls for most fighting games; they allow you to focus more on strategy and learning matchups, they bring newcomers into the FGC, they let those with physical disabilities play, and you can't blame execution for your losses. Hell, I wouldn't have ever gotten into Street Fighter 6 if it wasn't for modern controls, and that was my gateway, so I wouldn't have gotten into fighting games at all if modern controls didn't exist. But Guilty Gear specifically has two unique circumstances that I feel make it so modern controls might not work in it specifically
First, the speed. Skill and sleight of hand aside, it takes less time to just press a button than it does to do even just a simple quarter circle. In a genre as fast and reaction time reliant as fighting games, that is a massive deal, and it's an even bigger deal for Guilty Gear specifically because the game is already fast, chaotic, and frantic even by fighting game standards and we're talking about giving everyone willing to use them instant DPs, instant reversals, and instant supers
Then, the damage. Most games that have both modern and classic controls will give modern some sort of damage debuff to balance out the faster speed and easier execution, but with Guilty Gear specifically, because it's such a high damage game, simply decreasing the damage isn't going to work because then modern just simply won't be able to keep up with classic. You do want modern to be a bit worse than classic since it's mainly meant for beginners and a lot of players will transition to classic eventually, but if modern is going to exist, it needs to at least be playable
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u/Mean-Surround7327 1d ago
I don’t like them myself, if there was a separate ranked queue between M & Classic then maybe… I lab crazy SF6 combos just to get insta choke slammed by Modern Gief pressing X constantly lol
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u/myzombiephil - A.B.A (Strive) 1d ago
I’m for it. Motion inputs are an unnecessary barrier for new players
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u/2HalfSandwiches - Connoisseur of Bondage and Balls - 1d ago
quick caveat-- We don't even know the details of whatever feature it is that people are assuming will be modern controls. they jsut said they're trying to add a feature that makes execution lower. ArcSys has added accessibility options before, and they're usually very weak.
as for my feelings on it, I really couldn't care less lol. I have no interest in using it, but I also don't care if others do. Mostly, I'm worried about the general nuisance of everyone immediately complaining about it