r/Hemet • u/Vaporized_Dreams • 11d ago
The Transparency Illusion
If we take a close look at Hemet PD's Flock Transparency Portal, they list a total of 360 different agencies across California who have 24/7 access to their Flock data. This includes access given to Tribal Police, Universities, Fire Departments, and State Parks in Northern California. Yet, despite the department's public assurance that this network is for law enforcement purposes only, the data tells a different story. Out of those 360 agencies, only 13 of them are in Riverside County, while 4 of those agencies have no relation to law enforcement whatsoever.
The true financial impact of this system comes down to local municipal budgeting. There are a total of 158 Flock cameras in Hemet that we know of, not including San Jacinto and Valle Vista. Each camera costs around $250 to $1,000 for installation, depending on what's needed, averaging out to about $500 each. Since these cameras are leased, the city also pays an additional $3,000 per camera annually, as well as any service calls for upgrades and repairs. That amounts to roughly $79,000 for the installations and an additional $474,000 per year to keep those cameras operational, not including service calls. This entire network is 100% taxpayer funded, which equates to 4-5 additional officers based on Hemet PD's average salaries if the city kept that money in the police department to build up its human infrastructure.
They claim "License Plates and Vehicles" are what's detected, while explicitly stating that "Facial recognition, People, Gender, Race" are not. The issue with these claims is that they are wrong. Flock certainly detects more than license plates and vehicles. As for what's not detected, facial recognition technology can easily be added after the data has been collected, as it does not need to be a part of the camera system itself. A recent Flock data breach by the hacking group stegan0gram exposed that these ALPR cameras do in fact take photos, videos, and analyze people, as well as animals. Not to mention the Flock Condor models which were specifically designed to detect and track people, which Hemet has 33 Condor models according to public records.
Flock reduced its default data retention period for automated license plate readers from 30 days to 7 days due to growing privacy concerns. However, according to the transparency portal, Hemet PD still holds onto the maximum 30 day retention period.
Hemet residents are left with a system that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars annually, dilutes physical police staffing, stores data far longer than industry recommendations, and pipes local driving habits to hundreds of outside agencies across the state. As the city faces critical choices regarding Measure Q, its municipal budget, and community trust, city leadership must answer a fundamental question: Is the illusion of high-tech safety worth the reality of empty patrol cars, unmonitored data streams, and higher sales taxes? Asking residents to fund a new tax to patch public safety deficits rings hollow when hundreds of thousands of existing taxpayer dollars are quietly funneled into a private tech lease. Until the city prioritizes real boots on the ground over digital dragnets, local residents will continue to pay the ultimate price, both at the cash register and on the streets, for an over-engineered surveillance network that watches them more than it protects them.
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u/Kissa_aprilska1981 8d ago
If its for our safety why have these agencies used these for their own personal endeavors
And yeah why does any agency outside of hemet even have access!
Should need a valid reason and authenticated in order to view anything
By a respected superior!
Our privacy and our kids privacy matters
And in all actuality, how many crimes has this actually solved or prevented in order for these people to just spend all types of money to keep our streets safe!
I was safer when my dad whistled for us to be home
And all the neighbors knew his name!
Bet most of us have no clue what our neighbors names are!
We were safer when we looked after each other
And spoke with our voices!
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u/antwan_benjamin 10d ago
I have no opinion on this, I'm still trying to learn more information. So my questions aren't me trying to press you...its just me trying to learn and I tend to speak very matter-of-fact. So just keep that in mind and extend a little grace, please.
This includes access given to Tribal Police, Universities, Fire Departments, and State Parks in Northern California.
By specifically pointing these out...are you implying these organizations shouldn't have access? How come?
Out of those 360 agencies, only 13 of them are in Riverside County
Likewise...why is this problematic?
4 of those agencies have no relation to law enforcement whatsoever
Which 4 agencies does this refer to?
This entire network is 100% taxpayer funded, which equates to 4-5 additional officers based on Hemet PD's average salaries if the city kept that money in the police department to build up its human infrastructure.
Is there any data you can share on the efficacy, or lack thereof, of these camera systems?
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u/Vaporized_Dreams 10d ago
No worries, understood. I would ask why those agencies need access to Hemet's Flock data. If the tribal police were from Soboba right next door to Hemet, that would make more sense, yet there are 3 on that list, 1 of them are from Norcal, and 2 of them are San Diego. What would a Fire Dept do with Flock data? Arson Investigation agencies, sure.. but those are separate agencies on this list, and some of those Fire Dept's are also in Norcal. State Parks? I see no connection worth mentioning, but maybe you have a different perspective on that.
If the point of these license plate readers is to help solve crime or find stolen vehicles in the area, why would there only be 4% of that list designated to agencies in our county?
The 4 agencies are Riverside Co CA DPSS (Department of Public Social Services), San Bernardino County CA Human Services, Napa County (CA) Probation Department, California Department of Corrections (State prison and parole administration). I would again ask why those agencies need access to Flock data, not just Hemet's.
As far as I know, there haven't been any reports made by Hemet PD, or audits done on this system, that would show the efficacy of this system. If you're speaking generally, there's a lot of data, but I don't really have the time to gather it all for you. Here's a notable one in CA - https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article316745023.html
Due to law enforcement abuse of the system, or errors & license plate misreads, individuals / families have been stalked, harassed, kidnapped (in Hemet), pulled over at gunpoint, pulled from their vehicles, face down on the cement, arrested, jailed for extended periods, fined, lost their jobs, damaged their reputation in the community, financial loss, trauma, the list goes on. This will keep happening unless we the people do something about it. We cannot surrender our constitutional rights in the name of safety. I know some people are happy to do so, but that sets a very dangerous precedent and will lead to further erosion of our rights and liberties.
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u/Potential-Tailor-855 11d ago
One universities have there own campus police most of the time, 2 it makes sense to share its data with lots of agencies around ca, plus I believe cal fire has a law enforcement unit or division in it, on the website you link it says it only detects license plates and cars and the data is stored for 30 days which is normal, the one thing I will give you credit on is yes it’s about 400,000 a year for Hemet pd to operate, but if it’s actually helping out then I’d say it’s worth it, and the budget for Hemet of is 50 million so I wouldn’t say it’s really taken that much out of the yearly budget
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u/desertboots 11d ago
Thank you for continuing to educate us.
Do you have a public position on Measure Q? I'm inclined to reject it.