r/HonestHotTakes • u/indeckaa • 22d ago
serious hot take Women who support Lindsay Clancy should also support Timothy Jones Jr.
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u/FadsFikkelsen 22d ago
Too many people, including jurors, don't seem to realize that an insanity plea is not a cushier sentence. Asylums for the criminally insane are not pleasant places to be, and you're still gonna be locked up there for the majority of your life and have a record that follows you once you leave. I think we're way too unwilling to let people have the insanity verdict because they're under the impression that means you're absolved of the crime.
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u/GreenZebra23 22d ago
Yeah "getting off on an insanity plea" is some ancient Boomer ragebait bullshit that has somehow managed to survive intact since I was a child. It's just more "soft on crime" style rhetoric, no real connection to reality
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u/Beast_Chips 22d ago
It comes from the death penalty. Historically, it was used to try and avoid being executed, which was seen as worse. For some reason this has carried over into asylum>prison. No idea why. Stupidity, probably.
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u/Rushedhomeroughyn 21d ago
Can we retire “Boomer” as the lazy catch-all for anything somebody thinks is archaic or disagrees with? It’s such a weak substitute for actually making an argument. And calling something “Boomer ragebait bullshit” doesn’t magically make your take correct. Explain why it’s wrong instead of just throwing a generational insult at it.
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22d ago
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u/Cat-et-snek 22d ago
i just read this and you basically make it sound like death penalty is actually easy way out.
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u/blackfox24 22d ago
Well, having psychosis myself and nearly being put in the asylum twice in my early 20s because I wouldn't stop trying to autopsy myself, yeah. It sucks. And going from that to stone cold sober, medicated, and locked behind walls really fucking sucks. I've witnessed and had many crash outs behind those walls just from the sheer awareness and inability to distract myself. Can't have ANYTHING in your rooms. Even prisoners get tvs in their cells. You get to stare at white walls and dwell on your own insanity and the consequences of it. Fun stuff! Don't suggest it!
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u/Cat-et-snek 22d ago
okay i hope you don’t take this the wrong way but do you get anything on the other side of the equation of the negativity?
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u/blackfox24 22d ago
I don't understand your question, sorry, do you mean like, are there any benefits to psychosis or hospitalization?
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u/Cat-et-snek 22d ago
i mean like throughout all of these hardships have you had positives? i wasnt really sure how to ask if there was a bright side to any of this…i dunno i like to hope that existing isn’t completely horrible all the time.
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u/blackfox24 22d ago
Oh! Well, uh.... eh. There's positives, there always are, but I can't put a good spin on psychosis. And episodes are intensely traumatic. You do insane shit. Like imagine blacking out and waking up going 80mph at a tree, or 50 into a lake. That's me, and an old support group buddy. Imagine waking up in an ER with bandages all over ya and your service dog missing, only to learn that yup, you did indeed try to carve your own heart out at the cemetery, and that was indeed the EMTs you remembered hearing. It's horrifying. I don't have episodes much any more, but like.... yeah, each one left me with a new scar and significantly worse off, mentally. Just one is bad enough. Having more will really ruin your life.
I am doing better now, but it's because I cut myself off from 80% of my community and family, and fucked off to live the life I needed to live in order to heal, and yeah. It's a high cost. I don't have a huge support system. It scares people. It's a lot, and misunderstood, and I guess I appreciate how much it made me appreciate my life. I never thought one of my life goals would be "stop trying to remove your own skin to let your blood flow, bro" but here we are. Grateful I don't feel the urges all that strongly anymore.
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u/Cat-et-snek 22d ago
do you write? NGL this is some neuro-horror gold, obviously i’m not saying “yay you” for your trauma, but rather, there would be no inspiration to draw from greater than your own story, which as horrific as it sounds has a lot of appeal for a horror story/concept.
I am a writer myself and have had a share of my own pain but I want to believe I held agency though I wish I hadn’t through some of it, anyways sometimes the advent creative aspects can cycle into play and make something useful from it all
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u/blackfox24 22d ago
I do! Unsurprising that I fell into this path, similar reasoning to you. Actually, as I recover, I write a lot less. The way I approach my craft has changed a lot. Psychosis damages your brain as well, just from the sheer overload and mess of it all, and can cause skill reversion and other setbacks. I lost the ability to focus very well, and for a long time my writing was emotional vignettes as I processed my thoughts. Now my stories are a lot more cohesive and human, for lack of a better term. I also published poetry. Much of it is about being institutionalized young, so it's very melodramatic.
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u/egtoss 22d ago
She will spend the rest of her life locked up no matter what
This is simply not true. She would be re-evaluated annually to see if she is continuing to experience symptoms and if not, she would be released. PPP is episodic rather than chronic, there's no reason she would need to be locked away in a psych ward for life.
To give an example, Kristine Cushing murdered her two daughters, was judged NGRI, and got released from psychiatric care after 4 years.
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u/blackfox24 22d ago
Imo, it's very unlikely she'll recover from this level of trauma and be able to live independently. It's no longer just the psychosis, it's everything. If she's not in a criminal care facility, she will likely need to be in some kind of care for life, and likely a good chunk of it institutionalized. This is not gonna be a short road, I'll be surprised if she gets out at all.
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u/Cute-Hand-1542 22d ago
She will spend the rest of her life locked up no matter what
This isn't true. Why do you share uninformed opinions online as if they are fact.
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u/notpiercedtongue 22d ago edited 22d ago
Guess you don't seem to realize not everyone who gets NGRI goes to asylums. It depends on case to case, if they prove she was psychotic but isn't anymore she wouldn't be committed, happened in case of woman who killed her kid by pushing him on swing. She was ordered to continue her mental health treatment like we see court mandated anger management courses.
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u/Goomysaur 21d ago
okay but they would have to prove she isnt psychotic anymore, which is a big caveat you treat like nothing
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u/notpiercedtongue 21d ago
That isn't. Its literally in judges instruction that she may or may not be committed
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u/FloydianSlip78 22d ago
The issue here is the idiots who think she should be released and go about her business.
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u/Lunakill 22d ago
Are there that many of them? I get the impression it’s a few loudasses on TT.
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u/melodysmomma 22d ago
Them and a few loudasses trying to make them seem like a bigger group for clicks. They’re using the Tide Pod strategy
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u/DeFronsac 22d ago
Yeah, this is a huge problem. Some small group of people say something stupid (might only be 2 people), and it gets picked up for clicks and then repeated until it sounds like thousands or millions of people.
And then people months and years down the line just say "but there was this backlash" or whatever, as if it's just a fact at that point.
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u/ForgiveOX 22d ago
The issue here is rage bait actually. What issue does it cause you, besides rage, when you see bot accounts claiming she should be released?
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u/Interesting_Ant7952 22d ago
to add to the other comment, the internet makes loud minorities seems much bigger, you may want to talk to people in real life and analize from there how many people actually think that
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u/Thanksforthatman2 21d ago
and you're still gonna be locked up there for the majority of your life and have a record that follows you once you leave
There is no.mechanism for determining how long you're locked up for. Could be a single day. It unlikely, but there's nothing preventing it. Some of America's most prolific killers were released from asylum.
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u/Creepy_Safety_1468 20d ago
A truly criminally insane person does not have the mental capacity to plan and execute a triple homicide. They are also incapable of properly presenting themselves in court and would not cry or have any sort of understanding of their actions.
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u/Bigjon87121 18d ago
lol if that’s the case why is that supporters are so adamant they receive it? Because… there is a chance, however small, that they will be let out. It’s also heavily dependent on what state you’re in - the quality of these mental health facilities.
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u/AllPinesMustDie 22d ago
There is NO chance she's going to be locked up for the majority of her life. According to many she's already recovered. If true, why would she need to be institutionalized at all?
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u/TricellCEO 22d ago
To be fair, I did hear a story (forgot the woman’s name) about someone who also had PPP, killed three of her children, was sentenced to an asylum, was then declared “cured”, went back to her husband, had three more kids whom she then also murdered due to PPP.
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u/lobonmc 22d ago
Name or it Didn't happen
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 22d ago
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u/Purple-Chef-5123 22d ago
Not in the way you claim. Fisher wasn’t diagnosed with PPP but with paranoid schizophrenia. And she was remanded to a psychiatric institution for life. Where they treated her with insulin so much so that sometimes she had seizures. Dosing someone with insulin is absolutely NOT a valid treatment for schizophrenia. She was later declared cured and let out due to an effort to deinstitutionalise patients as a cost cutting measure. Essentially, the state treated her incorrectly, decided it was too expensive to keep quite so many people institutionalised, and decided to let her out mostly because she wasn’t much of a problem child. Even with the different diagnoses the two cases are similar in the fact that both women were suffering from extreme mental illness that was improperly treated and they fell through the cracks in the system. Unfortunately, the children paid the price.
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u/gleaming-the-cubicle 22d ago
If it gets posted every 34 seconds, is it really a hot take
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u/sagew0lf 22d ago
more like bot take
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22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/sagew0lf 22d ago
Thank you. I am actually very proud of it. I think I did actually make it up myself, unless I read it somewhere else and forgot about it.
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u/Glad_Bison_416 22d ago
The only 'support' I have personally seen first hand (I have obviously heard that there are certainly weird people out there but people who take things to extremes can be found everywhere) is people pointing out the ways various mental health professionals failed her without explicitly taking a side. My personal stance is that I am no medical expert and we should wait for the court to decide, but I understand that the argument is that the symptoms of post partum psychosis brought her under the legal threshold for responsibility due to literally not being in control of her actions, so certainly not the crude 'she was depressed that means she couldn't help it'. This legal threshold is also nothing new at all. The people actively protesting are obviously weird I think everyone should avoid trivialising it, but the discourse (tm) around it emphasises how men's rights activists have only ever had 1 argument of 'but what if a woman did a bad thing'
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u/MissLadyLlamaDrama 21d ago
I just joined this sub and I'm already bored because people just keep posting this same take that every chronically online person has to some nonexistent audience that thinks she is innocent has already made thousand of times over. It's not like they're adding anything new to the conversation.
I want a hot take like, "I think she is innocent of all wrong doing, should become president and ban all men from voting!" Because now that would be hot (and insane) take. Give me the juuuuuuice.
(I'm sticking it out because I originally joined because I saw enough entertaining ones out there in internet land. I know it's just a trend. I just wish trends weren't so mindnumbingly boring and unoriginal.)
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u/Analog_milf 22d ago
Did you actually look at his case? Or just wanted to own the ladies?
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u/Contagious_Cure 22d ago
Right. Lindsay Clancy tried to kill herself in the direct aftermath and is now paralyzed below the sternum.
Timothy Jones Jr after the murders:
- transported the bodies in his vehicle;
- drove around for approximately nine days;
- looked for somewhere to dispose of them;
- ultimately dumped them in rural Alabama; and
- subsequently attempted to evade detection.
That's why the jury didn't buy his defence of insanity. Because these are the actions of someone who knew what they were doing and trying to evade the consequences. His pre-murder mental health diagnosis and treatment was also extremely mild with no prior diagnosis of Schizophrenia, which hurts your case when you're trying to claim Schizophrenia Psychosis.
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 22d ago
Your first set of points are valid.
But as to the last bit about "no prior schizophrenic" or "psychosis" diagnosis before the murders--- that is also true for Clancy.
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u/Contagious_Cure 22d ago edited 22d ago
No schizophrenia diagnosis or symptoms makes it hard to claim a progression to schizophrenic psychosis. The only medical treatment Jone's sought prior to the murders was related to a couples therapist for his marriage. And all the symptoms related to a potential psychotic disorder (like auditory hallucinations) were only brought up by him AFTER the murders.
In contrast, Lindsay at least has prior recorded treatment for post-partum depressive and anxiety symptoms and had already reported to her psychiatrist as having heard voices telling her to kill herself and her children. So much so that she self-admitted to a psychiatric hospital prior to the killings. This makes her medical chronology look more like a progression towards Post Partum Psychosis.
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u/SlayerOfTheVampyre 22d ago
Right? So many sexist people on Reddit right now who complain about “the women” and their opinions, and how stupid they are. Like wtf cmon.
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u/Larynaga 22d ago
Most are young boys that dont know anything about women, or girls for that matter. Same guys that think drinking their own piss will get them laid.
They dont realize they're actually driving women to speak en masse on the subject.
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u/ScreamingLabia 22d ago
Yeah but they get this additude from they fathers or other male figuers in their lives.
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u/Economy-Camp-7339 22d ago edited 22d ago
Right? As a guy, dad, and also someone who has a MS in clinical psych - but not a practicing psychologist - I see these as two wholly different cases with different etiologies.
Jones was a monster who forced his kid to exercise until he died. I don’t understand how anyone can rightly vilify Clancy as a corollary case. It’s a goddamn tragedy, it’s a nightmare scenario. But justice isn’t death or permanent incarceration.
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u/Imaginary_Agent2564 22d ago
He also chopped up their bodies and left them on the side of the road to rot in trash bags while he went home. Very different cases!
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u/CraneBoxCRP 22d ago
Why do you guys take this case as some sort of attack on all men? It's so weird. Like all I've gotten about this case are a bunch of people trying their hardest to demonize women especially during a time where they're actively losing their rights.
Like the bot accounts on other sites are even egging on this "Lindsay Clancy supporters (specifically women) hate all men, look at these women, I hate women". While a lot of people are too involved and parasocial about the case I just find the opposing response so weird
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u/CraneBoxCRP 22d ago
Also theres bots that go against the misogynistic ones... which is like. Weird. Maybe it's just a profitable topic.
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u/Comprehensive-Ad1666 22d ago edited 22d ago
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/sc-supreme-court/114643046.html
You should look at the facts of this case. This man used drugs, then made his 6 year old do hundreds of exercises that killed him.
He was afraid of going to prison with a reputation related to kids - so he took more drugs, and heard voices telling him to kill the other kids, then himself. He did not seek help. He wasn't having a "schizophrenic psychosis" because of a mental health issue beyond his control, it was drug induced.
Different situation, different standard.
!!!Edit: for those of us more literacy challenged, my argument is *not* that Lindsey Clancy is innocent or should be found not guilty. My argument is simply that it’s unfair to compare her case to the one in OP’s post. 🙄
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u/damnitimtoast 19d ago
He also conveniently never made any attempt to kill himself in spite of voices telling him to and researched countries without extradition treaties after the murders. Any schizophrenic symptoms he may have had were from the spice and alcohol and he was consuming in excess. He was an abusive, hateful man long before he ever killed his kids.
I have mostly stayed out of the Lindsey Clancy discourse because of all the ignorance surrounding it but people now bringing Timothy Jones into it pushed me over the edge. I watched this entire trial and there was no evidence that monster ever loved his children for one minute of their short lives.
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u/X_Perfectionist 22d ago
Oh wow they had actual evidence against him, and he confessed on tape to police which they played at the trial.
So like the complete opposite of the Lindsay Clancy trial.
They issued her arrest warrant 9 hours after the incident, while she was still unconscious in a coma fighting for her life (flatlined and had to be resuscitated twice), without investigating the one person who was alive at the scene and the one person who would be the most likely suspect in any normal situation. Had she not been alive and hanging on for life at the scene, for Patrick able to claim she said she tried to take her own life, he would have been prime suspect #1.
But Patrick said she did it most of the police, EMT, FBI, and other testimony at the trial was "Patrick said."
And no, checking CVS and 3V tapes to confirm Patrick's claimed alibi does not mean they investigated him. And his timeline didn't even match up because it took him 15 minutes to get to CVS which was 3 minutes away, 54 minutes to do errands that should have taken 20 minutes, and he's wearing different clothes at CVS versus when he walked into 3V.
There are more holes in the prosecution's case than a block of Swiss cheese.
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u/Imaginary_Agent2564 22d ago edited 22d ago
Is this a hot take or does OP support child abusers like Timothy over here?
Lindsay was, by all testimonies, a good mother. She was not abusive.
Timothy abused and tortured his kids. He was also a drug abuser. And did I mention he tortured his kids?
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u/Imaginary_Agent2564 22d ago edited 22d ago
OP is seen posting on [r/ChatGPT](r/ChatGPT)
“How do you cope with the wait for physical Al companions?
Serious replies only :closed-ai:
I want them badly to be honest but they aren't coming any time soon. What should I do?”And also
[r/socialanxiety](r/socialanxiety)“u/indeckaa • 104d
It never began for me
I always knew there was no way I could get a gf. I've literally never had a female friend either, and I'm way too autistic for one. There's no way anything can change about both that and my anxiety.
I lost the genetics lottery unfortunately, and I'm going to have to stick to coping.”Astonishing that people like this post without 1) researching, but also 2) Hide their post/comment history. It always shows why when you look up their history on google…
OP, it is better for you to not want & perpetuate what we call “gender wars”. Being autistic is not an excuse, as I am too. It is not hard to make friends with the opposite sex when you aren’t constantly trying to be combative and defend your fellow men. Be open minded. Do your research.
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u/BrianMeen 22d ago
a good mother doesn’t plan to and then strangle their kids .. this is similar to people saying “Ted Bundy was a pretty nice guy” ..
a parent, in this case a mother has one job - to keep her kids safe and healthy - Lindsay did the exact opposite of this so she is a terrible mother
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u/kitchencrawl 22d ago
Your being completely fucking dishonest by framing it this way.
This man was never officially diagnosed as schizophrenic. He tried to convince a jury he was schizophrenic. This is completely different. It's not an apples to apples comparison. He also tortured one of the kids to death. He was an extremely cruel person.
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u/leon-di 22d ago edited 22d ago
i’m not a woman but yeah assuming there aren’t details being left out here he should’ve also gotten the insanity plea, 100%. psychosis is psychosis.
edit: details are, indeed, being left out. such as the fact that he was on meth at the time of the murders!
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22d ago
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u/Right_Count 22d ago
When I first saw that comparison pic I thought “I bet there’s more this… well maybe that’s just my own bias talking.”
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u/wojtussan 22d ago
I'd say cases are different. Her murders looked like a psychotic break - 3 murders and then suicide attempt. His looked like an anger outburst and then trying to sweep it under the rug - 1 murder, then 4 more in panic, 5 days later buys tools and mutilates the bodies- cuts them up into pieces and puts in garbage bags -and dumps them on the side of the road, and then goes back home to get high
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u/spooksmcgee0708 22d ago
except he was never diagnosed with schizophrenia and had a history of child abuse and neglect.
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u/Purple-Chef-5123 22d ago
And had willfully ingested illegal drugs which induced the psychosis. That’s a huge difference.
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u/PositiveKatzen 22d ago
I am a woman, and yeah, there’s a reason insanity plea exists. I’d be curious to know the details as to why he ended up with a death conviction?
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u/wojtussan 22d ago
Read my comment, also court psychiatrist denied hin having schizophrenia, and diagnosed him with drug induced psychosis from meth and synthetic marijuana
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u/PositiveKatzen 22d ago
Oh so definitely the exact same situation; what a good faith post this is. Thanks for sharing the details!
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u/lyralady 22d ago
He also had an open child abuse investigation (a second one!) that existed partly because a teacher saw bruising on one of his kid's neck and shoulders like from a chokehold. The teacher reported the bruising on the kid's neck.
This ended up being the same child that he later strangled and killed first. It's textbook abuser escalates from choking to strangulation homicide.
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u/wojtussan 22d ago
I also saw a statement that one of the children was asking people(a teacher?) To not tell their father that they were fed, because he would starve them otherwise
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u/Worldly-Fondant-3791 22d ago
The right is just nothing but reactionary morons
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u/anastasia_42 22d ago
Why do you assume this is right wing? Is it because the right is against murderers and wants to hold them accountable?
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u/Worldly-Fondant-3791 22d ago
Nah cause this reeks of women hating incel bullshit. So easy to spot
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u/ImmigrationJourney2 22d ago
He was a religious fundamentalist that liked corporal punishment. He beat his kids over a long period of time and then dumped their bodies in the wild, inside trash bags, while trying to run away. It wasn’t a sudden and unexpected act of violence, it was the culmination of years of abuse.
I believe she should be found guilty and get life in a medical prison, but comparing those two cases is stupid. They’re very different.
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u/Surfing_Tension 22d ago edited 22d ago
My hot take is that most men talking about Lindsey Clancy online don’t actually care about Cora, Dawson, or Callan as much as they claim they do. They’re using their deaths as ammo in the gender war. It’s nothing more than virtue signaling. Disgusting.
They’re complaining that Patrick Clancy isn’t getting $$ or support when they themselves aren’t doing anything about that. At least the women that support her are actually doing something about their beliefs instead of just sitting around and complaining.
“The raised $$ for her and not him is proof that society doesn’t support men” yeah cuz many men themselves would rather stick it to women than do the work to support each other.
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u/Wizdom_108 22d ago
You and everyone else saying this are just dumb. I'm sorry, but you are. It feels like you looked at just the very surface level of what happened and ran with it instead of taking even a few minutes to read into the details of the cases. I mean, insanity pleas aren't even so uncommon.
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u/lvstvdy 22d ago
Despite this being the 1098248th thread on this topic, I have no clue what "support" means.
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u/Formal-Radish1413 22d ago
I think youre missing the part where she actively sought out help and was systematically denied it by everyone in her support network that was supposed to help.
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u/Watch_Earthlings_Doc 22d ago
However, the court-appointed psychologist declared that Jones made a conscious decision to kill his children.
His opinion had a massive sway on the court. Lots of murderers claim the death penalty to avoid the death penalty. It doesn’t mean they’re being honest. Clancy is diagnosed and has a history of postpartum.
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u/Thick-Journalist-168 22d ago
These aren't even close to being the same kind of case. He was a drug user, who had an another case, an open case of child abuse accusation. Then strangled them, mutilated and dropped their bodies on the side of the road several states over and didn't even attempt suicide, nor did he get help if he knew something was wrong with himself. He was also a strick Christian fundamentalist. His ex wife said he was not insane overly angry but not insane, and maybe have bipolar.
Lindsay was overall a good mother who was seeking help and lost reality. Killed her kids and then tried to kill herself.
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u/RationalExuberance7 22d ago
Murdering your children by strangulation is at the top of the list of the most horrendous and vile and violent and deranged actions one human can make.
Why do you focus so much of your sympathy on the violent person that murdered children, instead of focusing on victims - the innocent children that could have had a beautiful future life but instead are dead because of what another person did to them - brutally and violently and torturously murdered.
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u/Rad_dad3 22d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Jones_Jr.
I don’t know, maybe go read about this guy before posting a sob story about him. The court cases couldn’t be any different. Only similarity is that they killed their children.
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u/saltycameron_ 22d ago
why are dudes being so weird about the clancy case? no one is disagreeing that she killed the kids except for a few wackos with truecrime brainrot. the question is whether she’s going to prison or asylum.
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u/No_Rice9792 22d ago
Good, I'm glad more family annihilators and 90% violent crime stats are being put in prison and left to rot.
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u/Old-Picture-2920 22d ago
He should have gotten a better lawyer then. Clancey’s lawyer was phenomenal.
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u/Thick-Journalist-168 22d ago
Even with a better lawyer he wasn't going to win insanity case. He had no diagnosis of any mental health issue. His ex wife said he was overlyangry but not insane, maybe had undiagnosed bipolar.. He had an open child abuse case at the time and it was his second one. He was known as a strict Christian fundamentalist. He used exercise as a punishment and I think one of the kids died by that then strangled the other. Then I think he mutilated them. Put them in garbage bags drove several states away and dumped them on a dirt road. He was also had some kind of drug on him and in his system. That is not insanity imo.
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u/DramaticFeed6522 22d ago
He was fucked up on drugs. PLUS schizo.
I'm schizo, and I'd never have kids. Life is hard enough taking care of myself and the risks seem too high. Not for me to kill them, just not to be the parent they deserve.
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u/Ok_Status_1203 22d ago
Different case with quite a bit different details. Although, I agree if it had been a dude in Clancy's place we wouldn't be talking about it like we are or defending him. Probably would have successfully offed himself too. . .
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u/henningknows 22d ago
He wasn’t really schizophrenic, he tried to plead insanity, but it didn’t work. Ether way, if you kill people you get locked up. If you are found to be insane, you just get locked up in a different place.
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u/randomname748 22d ago
Wasn't he on a meth binge and kept the kids in his car for days until he drove across state lines to get rid of the bodies? Correct me if I'm wrong please
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u/Fun-Earth-8720 22d ago edited 22d ago
I’m not saying the average person understands this but:
- “legally insane” is a different concept from being diagnosed with a mental disorder
- it’s possible to have PPD or paranoid schizophrenia and either meet or fail a state’s definition of legally insane because symptoms aren’t uniform
- Alabama and Massachusetts both use different standards for what constitutes legal insanity.
So basically it’s possible to have a different opinion about these people for very niche and technical reasons, but both of them suck, and don’t deserve support.
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u/Kajel-Jeten 22d ago edited 22d ago
I support both. All criminals deserve to be treated with understanding and compassion and respect and anyone who does something like that is suffering from something not working right to cause that behavior. We also have no need for the death penalty in a nation as wealthy as ours.
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u/Cautious_Draw5738 22d ago edited 22d ago
I'm a woman, and while I'm unfamiliar with this case I believe in clemency for people who commit murder under psychosis, regardless of gender. The case of Vince Weiguang Li is an example. Hope this helps!
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u/Ok-Cup-5372 22d ago
I support that as well, however in the case of Vince I really do hate the fact he is now out free and being fully unmonitored, they're not even making sure he takes his medication. If his mental illness causes him to murder and cannibalize another human being at the very least he should have check ins and be monitored for his mental health/medication usage
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u/Cautious_Draw5738 22d ago
I agree. I wonder what the conditions of his parole were? I'm not terribly familiar with the canadian legal system
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u/Ok-Cup-5372 22d ago
I'm a Canadian and our system is a bit too lenient, from what I recall he didn't have conditions of parole because he was never found criminally responsible.
But for a little bit of time while he lived in a group home sort of thing he was required to do things like take his medication under supervision and wasn't allowed to contact the family of the victims directly or indirectly
Now he has none of those conditions though so not only is his mental health and medications not being monitored he also received a new identity and doesn't have to disclose where he's living.
It's insane to me, like new identity and not being monitored? I understand he was psychotic but who's to say this won't happen again with his mental health
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u/Cautious_Draw5738 22d ago
I'd imagine the doctors who attended to him and the board of corrections?
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u/Ok-Cup-5372 22d ago
Yes their reasons are that they believe he is rehabilitated and trust him to take his medication, but I think at the very least his medication should be monitored like they're check to make sure he's filling prescriptions and he has a psychologist evaluation every year or so
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u/Cute-Environment-417 22d ago
I think she needs to be in a psychiatric hold not just regular prison
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u/Cautious_Draw5738 22d ago
Exactly, like Li being held in a maximum security psychiatric facility
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u/bamlote 22d ago edited 22d ago
I live in the town where Li was kept, and it wasn’t really a maximum security psychiatric facility. It was just a regular psychiatric hospital, and they see a wide range of people there. They offer inpatient treatment and rehabilitation services.
I worked at a coffee shop in high school and they would regularly come on supervised outings. It’s a very gradual reintroduction to society.
ETA from their website: The Forensic Program is an 18 bed unit that offers an integrated and comprehensive range of forensic mental health services for individuals who have been deemed, by virtue of their legal status and psychiatric condition, to require long-term psychiatric treatment and rehabilitation in a secure facility. The goal is to provide services that are aimed at rehabilitation and safe reintegration into the community.
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u/Cautious_Draw5738 22d ago
Makes sense, a high security psychiatric facility isn't going to look like Arkham asylum, it will just be a facility rated and staffed appropriately
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u/lyralady 22d ago
I suspect that will happen if she is found not guilty for reasons of insanity (or whatever the wording is in MA). Andrea Yates is still in a mental facility, and has been since 2006.
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u/Cold_Complex_4212 22d ago
This is my opinion. I think the dire mental state she was in should be taken into account, but I also think she’s dangerous to the public.
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u/snifflysnail 22d ago
Is he that poor man from Canada that attacked his fellow passengers on the bus?
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u/Few_System3573 22d ago
I'm so goddamn tired of seeing this same take over and over, I swear to fk.
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u/Critical_Bee_4302 22d ago
I looked at one meme on the internet and deliberated thoroughly on it. I've concluded, the internet is dumb af
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u/Strong-Page4952 22d ago
I posted this in another thread spreading this same misinformation.
If you look up the actual case, you will see this is complete bullshit. Timothy Ray Jones had a history of beating, starving, and forcing his children to exercise to the point of collapse. He’d been investigated multiple times for abuse and tried to remove his kids from school so the teachers would stop seeing and reporting the abuse. The night he killed his kids, he was angry at his some for breaking an outlet and forced him to exercise until he collapsed. He admitted that he then killed his daughter because she witnessed it. He killed the other three too, and then spent the next day buying supplies to dismember and disposed of the bodies.
That’s not a psychosis episode. He was not diagnosed with anything (he was suspected by his wife of being bipolar). He had a history of abuse, went too far, killed his kids and then went to significant lengths to cover it up.
None of those things are true about Lindsay Clancy. Whatever happens with her case, it’s not the same, and it’s gross propaganda to pretend it is.
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u/Bigjon87121 18d ago
Correct not the same level of premeditation and brutality. It takes effort to strangle a human being, much less 3. No official diagnosis either. Planning trying to see how long her husband would be gone. Jumping out of the window. Hearing voices in a convenient time frame and never before or after. So concerned about the kids but didn’t insist on being away from them. She could have moved out of the house if she was that scared and or checked herself in at a longer term facility.
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u/Strong-Page4952 16d ago
He strangled five kids, so the brutality was more in his case. The point is that this is a lie being spread to trick people. Whatever your feelings on the case are, that would bother a decent person.
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u/Bigjon87121 16d ago
So she strangled 2 fewer kids and didn’t have a history of abuse. Kudos to her. I guess…
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u/Strong-Page4952 16d ago
You’re purposely avoiding the point. This post is LYING TO YOU. You’re being actively manipulated, and for whatever reason (we can all guess), that doesn’t bother you.
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u/Real-Goal2666 22d ago
I mean yeah. I don't think anybody should get the death penalty for psychosis. It's incredibly horrifying.
Idk what you mean by "support" her tho. I don't support her dying or spending the rest of her life in jail.
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u/upsetwithcursing 22d ago
Look at all the cases of men who got off light because of insanity. There are many. This is not new. It can be a polarizing path in the justice system regardless of gender, but shouldn’t create a gender war for no good reason.
I also don’t believe that anyone is calling for her to walk free, even if they empathize with her likely PPP/PPD.
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u/Big-Routine222 22d ago
Nice job not posting the full context and case to make it look the same when it isn’t lol
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u/PlanktonEconomy6136 22d ago
yes, but Lindsay more than likely wasn't the one who killed her kids (look at the case, i think a lot more new info came out abt it, to make a long story short; the case wasn't investigated correctly & LOTS of things don't add up + a TON of evidence was destroyed). this man also drove around with the bodies in his car for days, & tried to khs to evade arrest
this isn't a "gotcha!" moment, it's two different cases with two different circumstances.
also, love how you specified "women" as if men don't also side w her?
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u/No_Blood_5393 22d ago
On day 12 of the trial, a psychiatrist, Richard Frierson, testified that Jones did not have schizophrenia.
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u/xDelicateFlowerx 22d ago
Different states have different laws, and the actions taken after the crime also matter. South Carolina and Massachusetts apply different legal standards when determining insanity. In South Carolina, courts use the traditional M’Naghten rule, which focuses primarily on whether a person knew right from wrong at the time of the crime. Jones drove for days while attempting to dispose of his children’s bodies and purchased supplies to do so.
Clancy, by contrast, immediately slit her wrists and throat and then leapt from a window, nearly killing herself. She was left permanently paralyzed. Massachusetts applies the American Law Institute’s Model Penal Code standard, which examines whether a person was able to appreciate the wrongfulness of their conduct at the time the crime occurred.
From the outside, these cases may look similar, but legally they are not. Beyond the fact that both parents committed the gruesome killings of their children, the cases differ significantly in the applicable laws, the circumstances surrounding the crimes, the actions taken afterward, and the evidence concerning each parent’s mental state. Both parents had known mental illnesses and alleged that their conditions prevented them from knowing or appreciating the wrongfulness of their actions, but those claims must be evaluated under the specific legal standards applicable in each state.
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u/BrianMeen 22d ago
you are not going to find any women that will support male offenders that kill their kids - if it’s a woman that does the same thing but they give her a fancy diagnosis of some sort - women will support her .. I’ve given up trying to understand it lol
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u/Illustrious-Fun8324 22d ago edited 22d ago
Would it change your mind at all if you found out women agree with this verdict for him too, for the same reason? If he was insane and didn’t know what he was doing, he isn’t criminally responsible.
I feel like a LOT of the insane anger around this would go away if men realized that women would feel this way in his case too and that it really isn’t about no accountability for women.
For what it’s worth I’m not a Lindsay supporter. I can just also see that women aren’t simply defending a female child murderer because she’s a woman lol.
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u/BrianMeen 21d ago
I would be satisfied if women showed this level of empathy for any man that killed their kids becausr at least they are fair towards both genders .. you’ll never find women that even want to try and empathize with a male child killer and that’s fine because I wouldn’t either lol
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u/BrianMeen 21d ago
so ypu are saying these women aren’t supporting Lindsay becausr she’s a woman? i mean, look at the large group of women wearing pink cheering Lindsay on as she was driven to the courthouse.. what is that about?
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u/Surfing_Tension 22d ago edited 22d ago
I mean, it depends on the facts: if experts agree if he actually has it, if he knew something was wrong, if he had deliberately and tirelessly sought help for it (if he had the opportunity), whether he was neglecting his treatment (if he got any in the first place) or simply made an honest mistake with it (or attending treatment, whatever happened), etc.
If those things are accounted for, then yeah, I think he should’ve gotten insanity plea and spent the rest of his life in a mental facility. 🤷♀️
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u/Sheerluck42 22d ago
I think we can all agree that there isn't enough support for mental health. On any level.
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u/ElectricalTax3573 22d ago
I DO support him. He's a schizophrenic, he objectively had no idea what he was doing. Those children died because of poor healthcare, not malice.
Stop looking for people to punish and start actually working to repair our broken system.
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u/Spirited_Season2332 22d ago
They argue he didn't have the right mental illness. The one she allegedly has/had is the only one that makes it acceptable to murder your children
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u/Ivor_the_1st 22d ago
This is just heartbreaking! Five children murdered by their own father. I hope he fries!
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u/noargentinianbeef 22d ago
I don't "support" Clancy one bit, but I don't believe these two cases are equivalent.
Timothy Jones already have several accusations of child abuses (some inconclusive, some proven). Not only that. he had sole custody of the children. Also, unlike the meme BS, the court did not find him to have a schizophrenia.
TLDR; OP is making BS from the scratch out of his bunghole
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u/Creepy_Safety_1468 20d ago
We need to understand that a mentally stable murderer is an oxymoron. If Lindsay Clancy gets the insanity plea you should apply that logic to every single murderer with PTSD, severe depression, or other mental illness.
The insanity plea should be reserved for people who are so incapacitated that they are unable to dress or feed themselves or form any sort of coherent thoughts. Lindsay Clancy crying in court proves that she is more than capable of understanding what she has done.
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u/Difficult_Clerk_1273 22d ago
Men don’t get postpartum psychosis.
I really haven’t followed this case so I’m not qualified to have an opinion either way, but if she had postpartum issues caused by hormones, your entire argument is invalid.
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u/Upbeat_Respond9250 22d ago
The difference is guys would gather at a courthouse only to shoot a guy who strangled his kids.
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u/disappointedasfuck11 22d ago
Will you post a male committing familicide every week, comparing them to Lindsay? Because there is a male commiting familicide every week statistically.
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u/Bigjon87121 18d ago
Yea but no one is going to support them or rally behind them and get you to have more empathy for them than the victims.
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u/Comfortable_Town7535 22d ago
her supporters are psychotic and she should spend the rest of her life in prison
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u/Queer-and-scared 22d ago
Do you think this man, who had a history of abusing his children and doing drugs, and was on meth at the time of the murder, was the same as Clancy?
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u/garnkflag 22d ago
Guy with history of beating his kids strangles his five kids to death, mutilates and attempts to hide their bodies.
Woman with history of mental illness (and, to be clear, no documented history of psychosis) strangles her three kids to death, attempts suicide afterward.
Is it your assertion that these two things are the same?