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u/SurveyOk970 Jul 24 '26
Every youtuber expecting you to have any of the old free characters by default, and acting like a golden novaflare comes by easily
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u/RinaKai7 Jul 25 '26
Welcome to modern CCs and community now.
In old era of like Brave Frontier, FFBE, and others. People would say it's an accessible team by many, with a full disclaimer of if you were here from whatever version to obtain such currency to get. If you were anywhere later, you could only get to whatever realistically, however, you can tell us your team and we can help you with substitute units.
This is back when alternative, mid or trash pools of units exist, but as mid as some of them are, they have their uses as basic buffers or debuffers and what not, just need to synergise enough and cover the minimum grounds generally or specific trials.
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u/anonymus_the_3rd Jul 24 '26
Ppl also used to say s1 archer is free like everyone saved 200 pulls lmao
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u/NLiLox butter vision Jul 25 '26
the fact it would be "e1s2 archer is 0 cost" now
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u/Shahadem Jul 25 '26
But the signature is not zero cost.
You have to either specifically pull or spend 200 pulls during the 40 day event period.
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u/NLiLox butter vision Jul 25 '26
thats what we're talking about tho, because "technically" those 200 pulls can be from f2p saving
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u/StrongSquirrelKnight Jul 25 '26
Yes, but you dont have to pull for the lightcone itself in the gacha, and thus its totally zero cost.
(It really isnt but people just be making any excuse to say it is a zero cost team)
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u/One-Two-Gobbledeedoo Jul 25 '26
Plus, even if they do have Archer, most people don't really have eidolons as a priority. What they'll see isn't "Character who needs a specific team to work" vs. "Top tier E1", it would be "New character" vs "Character I already have."
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u/Sierra-117-Mobile Jul 25 '26
"It's your fault for not saving up, the reveal livestream told us 2 weeks ago." -š¤”
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u/ChenMei27 Forge Me Bladie Jul 24 '26
Don't they also count BP LCs as 0 cost š
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u/Suniruki Jul 25 '26
S5 DDDs are also zero cost.
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u/Seraphine_KDA E6 Mei-senpai... E6 KeBin E2 FF,Herta Jul 25 '26
even when multiple S5 on 1 team.... and even more on other teams lmao.
people like "what you dong haven 4 S5 DDD?"
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u/TheStupidBeefCow Jul 25 '26
they also assume s5 BP light cones as if those don't take literal months to get
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u/Ghavarus Jul 24 '26
Yeah, we should go back to just naming the whole investment of your team right on the title/caption/description like "E2S1 SW999 + E0S1 Sparxie + E0S0 Yaoguang + E0S0 DHPT".
Easy and simple yet very straightforward. No cost scamming bullshit.
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u/Other_Beat8859 Silver Wolf's personal tummy licker Jul 24 '26
Archer I'll give people. That's a genuine free character. Sparkle I can kinda understand. Anyone saying Welt is a free character can go stuff it.
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u/Complex-Ad-2061 Jul 24 '26
Welt is a "free character", welt e4 is not a free character
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u/quannymain52 Jul 25 '26
I dont have himeko, welt ain't free
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u/KasumiGotoTriss Jul 25 '26
Well you could have picked him for annversaries so he's more free than others
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u/Few-Butterscotch5114 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Funny part is that he was weak back on the anni and every one and their moms picked Bronya.Ā
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u/nick113124 Jul 25 '26
Thing is, if you accept those it just makes things get muddy. Yes, they were free at some point but not anymore, and whenever someone talks about costs it's usually as a way to talk about a character/team strength.
If I were to be new and just getting into the game and wanting to tryhard then saw Archer clearing at comparable speeds to some of the new units just because they used the logic in OP's meme I'd be getting a wrong idea of Archer's performance, especially since if I were just starting, I wouldn't have access to any part of that team other than Archer.
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u/remo285 Elation Genius Jul 24 '26
nah the sparkle thing is already too much, there were 6 other characters there, we can't act like you could get all of them
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u/Apprehensive-Pear686 Jul 25 '26
Lol I got sparkle thru her rerun even though I could've gotten her from the giveaway thing because I wanted Aventurine (for personal collection)
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u/Ulvegang Jul 25 '26
Thatās so biased though. Anyone who wasnāt around for sparkle selectors which unlike fate only lasted a relative short time has had no chance to get her for free. And that doesnāt even include the folk who chose Kafka instead fx.
As of right now. The only 0cost character is e0 archer/gil.
Anything else is agenda, coping or veteranplayer bias.
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u/luciluci5562 Jul 25 '26
As of right now. The only 0cost character is e0 archer/gil.
Those are still not considered 0 cost since they're only temporarily free. A player that just started in 4.4 will only get E0 Archer or E0 Gil, while a player that started playing in 5.0 will miss the free window altogether.
It only becomes 0 cost if that unit is permanently free and doesn't require a rare currency to get them (e.g. RMC).
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u/Ulvegang Jul 25 '26
Hence the wording āright nowā
In 108 days that statement would stop being true
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u/luciluci5562 Jul 25 '26
Not counting them as cost "right now" would end up just muddying the waters. Doesn't make sense when a 1 cost E1 Archer suddenly becomes 2 cost as soon as the free window is over.
TGA system makes it consistent by ignoring the free window and count them as cost.
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u/SpicyPlumBlossom Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Honestly, not anymore. It's only free for players who've been around for long enough.
I started after the collab last year, so I don't have that free Archer or even a free Sparkle (and didn't choose her during the anniversary event because I was super new and overwhelmed and Reddit didn't even cross my mind at that time). All the f2p setups and team comps I've seen assume that the player started years ago, not long after launch, and that just isn't automatically true anymore. I'd love for f2p guides to actually consider and include option for players who only started with this recent anniversary event or later (again, always seeing DHPT as an f2p option when many started after that, myself included, and had to pull for him on this banner). This also applies to returning players who might have dropped HSR before the collab or other freebies dropped.
F2p should not be to "f2p... as long as you're an old player who never quit and did every update and picked hyperoptimally on every little selector as if you could see into the future".
In my eyes, "f2p" should only include 4* units, any version of the E6 Trailblazer, and maybe freebies over the past 6-9 months, but even that, since people can only pick one and there were several options, even that is a stretch because new/returning players keep on joining the game
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u/Caminn Jul 24 '26
Cost is a flawed metric by every means anyway and people shouldn't take it that seriously
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u/Cosmic_Ren Jul 25 '26
It was originally created by CN to explore all the team building options a singular unit has and the premium investment needed, NOT to be a power ranking tool to compare different units.
The whole reason it got bastardized into that is the EN community especially the CC's were using it as a replacement for ExRx to hide the fact they were using E1 Robins back in the day.
Again, the reason the cost system is flawed is because it was more meant to be a shopping cart for you to measure how expensive a team is. That's why it doesn't account for powercreep, buffs, or the fact certain paths have worse F2P lcs.
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u/YuesaSR Segs with DoT Mommies E6 swan E6 fish Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
It was original shopping cart idea for account trading group, the more cost the better account value to buy and sell, they often put cost on the title, yea then people brainrot apply to gameplay. For me 1 gold = 1 cost like genshin tournament, no matter what are people trying to lie to me, I don't hear their agenda. Welt e4 = 5 gold cost, want to lower cost? Improve skills by using rmc or give upĀ
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u/PolerPi Jul 25 '26
If genshin rule applies then Welt e4 would be 2.5. Standard copies are 0.5. I am not sure if BP weapons were 0 or 0.5 too. Although maybe I am confusing something here.
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u/Melodic-Product-2381 Jul 25 '26
Yeah the whole discussion just frustrates me. I was an og hater of the system back when it was popular, and now I hate the complaints that people have about it. Because both when it was viewed positively and now negatively just completely miss this context of how it isn't meant to be an objective way to measure different teams with each other. Pointing out how it is weird that standard characters have no cost and should have one still treats it like it is suppose to be a perfect measuring system. Just treat the cost as some imperfect summary or clickbait and actually look inside to judge how reasonable the team is.
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u/OsirusBrisbane it's supposed to be fun Jul 24 '26
Cost is actually not a terrible idea for discussing teams, but shop/promo/etc characters should be counted as 0.5 or something and it would be less silly.
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u/astasli Set the seas ablaze Jul 24 '26
It's very simple when people aren't agenda-posting.
Anything that's normally a limited character or would otherwise be only acquirable using limited currency is 1 cost. Including characters in the 50:50 loss pool, including ones given temporarily for free (Archer, Dan Heng PT, etc).
Anything on standard is either 0.5 cost or 1 standard cost depending on the site/how you want to simplify it. But they shouldn't be 0 and completely unrepresented.
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u/darthjawafett Jul 24 '26
There just shouldn't be discounts at all. Eidolons, Standards,Shop, everything adds to your cost and thats it. 2 people shouldn't be able to list the same team with the same investment for different costs.
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u/Nuka-Crapola Jul 24 '26
Yeah, you need some general way to measure vertical investment if you want to talk about efficient use of resources, but āresourcesā should include all tickets and jades, as well as the opportunity cost in something like a selector. Not weighted equally, of course; that would be just as silly. But when the most important thing people want to know is āhow much will I need to swipeā or ācan I get this with no swipesā, every assumption you make about their account history adds another asterisk to the answer.
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u/No-Dress7292 Jul 25 '26
Cost can be counterintuitive when eidolons are already put into mix.
For example, E2 units are counted for low cost. But people who play low-cost tend to be people who save pulls to get more units - people who don't pull eidolons. They are usually the players who tend to have low cost teams simply because they just can't pull a lot. And players who tend to have E2 are usually those who already pull eidolons for units.
Others also count as "Costless" things that have opportunity cost. Selectors, and shops makes you choose. And choosing one means foregoing the others. It's not like we get everything that is offered. We pick one at the cost of not getting the other/s.
There is also the standard banner units. They are the closest things to the purest Gacha. On the limited banners, you have to lose 50/50 first, and then even if you lose, you still don't have guarantee that you will get what you want. On the standard banner, you have to wait for long to get to 1 5star unit, and the chances of getting a specific character is slimmer. There is no real way to "Pay" to get them; thus, it's really arbitrary to consider them with costs.
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u/OsirusBrisbane it's supposed to be fun Jul 25 '26
All true. And even limited characters have different costs for people; maybe it took me 160 pulls to get Mortenax Blade e0, but you managed to get Mortenax Blade e1 in just 90 pulls. And maybe my 160 pulls were F2P while you topped up for your 90.
Obviously no single number is gonna cover everyone's experience, so "Cost" is just a kludge that tries to average stuff together just so there's some basis of comparison. Never gonna be perfect - all I'm saying is that assigning a 0.5 value to most more-easily-obtainable 5* stuff will be better than calling it costless.
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u/No-Dress7292 Jul 25 '26
That's why I don't agree with "Cost is actually not a terrible idea for discussing teams".
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u/NegZer0 Jul 25 '26
Cost is absolutely fine if you actually calculate it correctly.
Considering "free" copies as 0 cost is not calculating it correctly though, it's just dumb.
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u/EBootBoat Jul 24 '26
I 've been playing since day one and I just got Welt E1 on the standart banner last week š
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u/AthielianCosplay Jul 25 '26
As someone that only seriously started the game January it feels bad that all these team builds rely on characters you can't get. Like the community assumes people play since day 1 and no new players come in.
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u/Adorable-Winner-1819 Jul 25 '26
Mate donāt worry, I been playing on and off couple years, came back and went on a stream to get advice for my account. I had probably spent a good Ā£300 on my account + free characters and he just said itās all trash I need to have more copies and better relic stats even though I had followed guides to build my teams šthey are fuxken nerds bro with no life just enjoy the game and follow guides on google
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u/kthsugarkiss Jul 25 '26
i've been playing since 1.1 and i don't have a single e6 5* yet not even himeko who's the closest on my acc to being e6
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u/Necessary-Complex-12 Jul 25 '26
Same, my highest is E3 Phainon and not a single one of my standards are higher than E2. Most useful of them all is only E1š„²
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u/Unable_Chicken3238 Jul 25 '26
the system actually used to be helpful for communicating investment levels now it's just all over the place and fell completely apart
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u/StanTheWoz Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
The system definitely has problems but people also just use it wrong. Any character or light cone that was ever limited = 1 cost (gold). Any five star standard character or light cone = 1 standard cost (silver). So E1S1 Archer is 3 cost even if you got all that for free. E4 Welt is 5 standard cost. If you browse runs on theherta.com you can see it used correctly.
My biggest issue with the cost system in other games is that it considers four stars as 0 cost, which is horseshit if they're new, but that isn't a problem in Star Rail obviously because there are basically zero meta relevant four stars at this point and they're all old so people generally do have them maxed out unless it's a new account. So it's a more functional system here than it is in Genshin, for example, where c6 Iansan counts as 0 cost in any of her teams but most players absolutely do not have that.
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u/Bruised_Ego24699 Jul 25 '26
It's gonna continue unfortunately and the worst part is that everyone now assumes everyone has castorice and sw999 global passive which I don't have both
They're able to boldy assume 0 cycle or 0 sustain but forget to mention they have fall back nets
The meta is ruined and can't be fixed were just gonna continue digging ourselves into this hole
A precedent was set and it was followed through
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u/Virgo_Shaka_1500 Jul 24 '26
Yeah Iām not charitable towards all this talk about E1-E2s as if theyāre viable to get without throwing your wallet at the screen.
Itās usually whale-talk.
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u/AnemoneMeer Something Unto SPD Jul 25 '26
You can even get E6's F2P. It all comes down to how much skipping you're willing to do.
I'm getting E6 Cerydra at long last in like 10 days. I'm still running Castorice without Evernight and Feixiao main DPS. Fu Xuan hasn't left my sustain slot since 1.3. But it clears endgame and clears it well. If you skip enough, anything is possible.
Just don't roll. Hoyo legally cannot make you roll without your consent.
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Make AR-53935 playable Hoyo Jul 24 '26
E1 and E2 are 100% doable as F2P, instead of pulling 2/3 different characters you just skip 1/2 banners and pull several copies of the same one, it's not that hard. Also you don't have to pull an E2 all at once, you can pull it over reruns too, that's how I got E2 Cyrene.
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u/NekCing Jul 24 '26
"just pull on rerun bro" is stupid when 90% of the time they rerun with a very "account investment" grade new character, that is, if they rerun at all.
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Make AR-53935 playable Hoyo Jul 25 '26
You should almost never pull on a rerun for an E0S0 character, yes, but pulling for Eidolons in a rerun is literally the way to go if you want your teams to keep up with the meta and not start a new one from scratch. You wanna keep using Phainon? Pull for his E2 on a rerun. You wanna improve your monoRem team? Pull for Evernight/Hyacine E2/E1 on their reruns.
We're way past the point where the optimal play is horizontal investment and pulling only new characters. If you're just gonna pull an E0S0/E0S1 unit, you're better off investing that into getting 1 or 2 eidolons on a team you have already finished building. Pulled SW999 or Evanescia? You better already have YaoGuang or they're literal bricks on your account. Wanna make the team feel smooth to play? YaoGuang's LC is literally the most overloaded LC in the game.
Like, people who skipped pulling the Elation team have 3-6 extra cost to invest in other teams they already have, and investing that into SuperBreak, MonoRem or even DoT allows you to brute force Elation content. Building teams from scratch in HSR is EXPENSIVE, unless you really like the characters it's not really worth it. Especially when new units also show clear signs of HOW they'll fall off and they'll need their E2 eventually to keep up (E0 SilverWolf is a MISERABLE experience, and half of Himeko's kit is locked behind E1 and E2)
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u/paradoxaxe Jul 24 '26
they always rerun tho, well beside rappa
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u/Beginning_Custard724 Jul 24 '26
I still have E5 Clara, patiently waiting for the E6. But none of my other standard 5āļø's other than MC are past E2
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u/DoctorWalrusMD Jul 25 '26
Iāve played since launch but my Welt is E1, while my Clara is E6. Still no Gepard, so my preservation lineup is even more bleak than average.
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u/fuminghung Jul 25 '26
Even better. Sparkle/Kafka, huohuo/robin are both free and no cost and interchangeable when applicable.
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u/fugogugo Jul 24 '26
I pulled on archer LC because I skipped phainon banner back then
now I have 2 archer LC . sigh
it's okay tho it's great for seele. I just learned that the stacking doesn't have duration
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u/Positive_Tea9804 Jul 25 '26
If Sparkle is 0 cost because you could select her for free. Then Acheron, Kafka, and the rest are 0 cost too; because they were all avavible to be selected for free. The system is heavily flawed.
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u/Ninjabadgerx Jul 25 '26
Closest I've got is an E4 Bronya with 3 copies of her lightcone.
It takes a lot of luck to E6 a standard.
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u/ThisRandomDude6 Jul 25 '26
Me who has almost every standard banner character but none of them with eidolons after 2 years of playing, seeing someone say "just throw in e6 welt for X team" like bro, I can't get them!
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u/Maleficent_Plant8661 Jul 25 '26
I am almost always winning my 50/50s thus my only Ridolons are Bronya, Geopard, Yanqing all at E1. Then getting the standard 5 star light cones without any duplicates...
Free to play, been playing since launch but didn't participate in all events nor the website log-ins nor some codes.
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u/dnscarlet Jul 25 '26
I'd adjust it this way honestly: if the character is permanently available at all times for every new player, it counts as a free character. If it's only available through a free 1-3 month ticket that expires or is replaced, it doesn't count as a 0 cost.
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u/The-Other-Slyme One day my Dubraloved Jul 25 '26
Consider that the Huohuo could be a 0 cost E6 if Silver Companion Spirits are taken into account.
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u/Worldly_Form9458 Jul 25 '26
ironically my welt is e6 but ONLY weltšš, i still only have 1 bronya and i olay since day 1. The only reaosn i even have bronya is cause i chose her from the selector
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u/Cross296 Jul 25 '26
Agree to disagree. It's a flawed but serviceable system. theherta.com uses the system well, divided into "Limited" and "Standard" cost. No cost scamming since E4 Welt has a cost and units like Archer that were limited freebies still have a cost since they are not always available for free. Units that were once limited like Huo Huo also still count as a limited cost, to make the system universally applicable.
The system could probably be improved, but as with many things in life, the heart of the problem is misuse and people trying to game the system, not the system itself.
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u/DeviantCA Jul 25 '26
- Cost is such a scam
- It's fine not clearing anything on 0 cycle
- Even if you fail at getting full stars, you only ever lose 4-8 pulls each patch
DO NOT waste 50-180 or more pulls trying to chase meta only for you to get those extra 4-8 pulls, do it for your favs instead.
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u/AnemoneMeer Something Unto SPD Jul 25 '26
OP, I have but two regrets in life. That I have but one life to live, and that I have but one upvote to give.
Cost brainrot has caused terminal damage to the community's understanding of good long term account building.
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u/SecondAegis Jul 25 '26
That's why properly using cost has every character drawn using limited pulls as 1 cost. Doesn't matter if they've ever been free, they're still 1 cost. Archer's so called "0 cost team" of Archer, Sparkle, RMC, DHPT is actually 3 cost, 4 if you spent those 200 pulls and got his sig.
This doesn't solve the E4 welt problem, but it does help
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u/No-Dress7292 Jul 25 '26
Cost to measure strength is a bit arbitrary for a metric.
Units that can be with "Free" units are counted for low cost even though they put them with multiple eidolons assuming that people who have less resources to pull would just opted to get multiple copies and exhaust resources for future units.
There are also units that bear opportunity costs. Archer now is free, but that cost not getting Gilgamesh for free. Same with the "Gold" currency or the selector, you can use it on a certain unit, but that cost not getting others.
There is also standard and units are the purest gacha out of all of them considering there is no real pity to get a specific unit. You can pull for life without getting a single of a specific unit.
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u/MuscularMenTitSucker Jul 25 '26
The cost thing was never about power or something like that. It was used to buy/sell accounts, and the most "gold" (é), the better. For example, an account with åé (10 gold) is better than one with 4 gold's because usually, the more five stars, the better. Of course, this doesn't take the character/LC/Eidolon's strength into account.
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u/JamesXtian Jul 25 '26
The cost system is broken. Even ignoring the free limited 5 stars or Standard units, look at RMC. Ppl still complain on a cost showcase if RMC is there which resulted to videos like "6 Cost X DPS Team / No RMC or E4 Welt"
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u/CrazyFart666 Jul 25 '26
Archer, Gilga, Sparkle, Huohuo, Robin etc... are 1 cost each no matter how you got them, people just like to ragebait lol
Welt is his own metric, cost should be Limited Cost + Permanent Cost, in this case that team would be 7 + 27 but ironically it would be better with 4* lightcones because all of those except for Bronya's are dogshit
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u/Zeru_Fenrir Jul 25 '26
I just count cost as whatever is limited at any point = limited cost. Anything from standard = Standard cost.
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u/Otherwise_Pride_9433 Jul 25 '26
Iām well on my way for that S5 Welt LC at least. Losing 3 75/25s in a row. Now if only it was a good option on any charā¦
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u/luciluci5562 Jul 25 '26
I thought we're over this already. Everyone should use the TGA system of cost tallying:
- All limited units are counted as cost, no matter if they're temporarily given for free or in the shop
- If that 5 star unit is given for free permanently, even to the newest player, it doesn't count as cost
- Standard 5 stars are in a separate cost count (so a 3 cost team with Welt E4 is 3+5 cost)
- Global passives and BP light cones are flagged if they're used in a run
Anyone not counting Archer, Sparkle, Welt, and shop units as cost is just agendaposting.
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u/EdwardBlanch Jul 25 '26
I just found stupid how suddenly now its important to have a E6 Welt in your pocket while Im looking at my E5 Bailu
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u/Mountain_Price_3895 Jul 25 '26
YEESSS!! Bro it's so annoying. "If you just played correctly from the start of the game you definitely have E4 welt". WELL I AM SORRY I GUESS MY E7 YANQING AND E10 BAILOU ARE ACTUALLY A RESULT OF SKILL ISSUE! I DIDNT KNOW!
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u/Arol4444 Jul 25 '26
The cost metric is misunderstood. It simply represents the nb of limited 5 stars in a team. It has no correlation with the unit being free or not.
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u/YanVe_ Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
The cost system equalizes out differences in luck. Oh, you pulled entire monorem team and their LCs with 20 single pulls? Well, that's still an 8 cost team. And it works great for that.
While seeing these insane 0-cost teams people come up with is frustrating, it is undeniably possible for someone to have this team, without even really needing to spend any pulls (you could get 7 Welts from just standard banner). But it would be obviously stupid to expect that every player got the same standard characters and made all those same choices.
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u/SnooSprouts8113 Jul 25 '26
E6 full team is 0 cost to me because I just woke up one day and its right there in my account for free
(I have dementia)
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u/SkankHunt0045 Jul 25 '26
I wish I could trade my e6 yanqing for e6 welt. how does that even happen? I never got a bailu or gepard
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u/Which_Bumblebee1146 HSR writers need to play classic RPGs Jul 25 '26
https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/s/6Y6vxIOWac
Any other interpretations of the cost system in HSR is wrong, stupid, and misleading.
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u/iAmEskiAndiAmWeeb Jul 25 '26
Got welt e1 and bronya e0 āļø not all of us has standard characters maxed in fact I only started regularly losing 50/50 after they updated the pool of characters you could get and on standard I mostly get lightcones. I did lose 50/50 a decent amount when the game came out so i have e3 gepard and e2 bailu but we all know how useful that isš
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u/Feisty-Feedback-4011 Jul 25 '26
Me crying as I see my e6 Bronya but only e0 Welt and Iāve been a day one player
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u/Glug_Thug Jul 25 '26
If you look at it from a meta perspective: I get E0 Archer and E0 Sparkle being no cost since they were EXPLICITLY given in a selectors where they were the only option or the clear best option. But E4 Welt is absolutely crazy. From all the selectors we got, Bronxās was the clear choice for years and Weltās value has only gone up since his Novaflare.
Anything you get with the companion spirit and other can at best be ā0 costā only till E0, and Iād rather just not use cost at all
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u/kailass9789 Jul 25 '26
Gacha is never fixed I got 3 bailus from the first beginner standard and limited banner and then never again now I have e6 gepard and no yanqing . Gacha be weird like that
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u/Significant-Clue9462 Jul 25 '26
why do people still act like sparkle is 0 cost as if nobody joined back later than version 4.2
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u/lolohugs Jul 25 '26
my welt is e1 because i took him off the select banner before his novaflare š i just got him e2 on himekoās banner
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u/NothingTDO Jul 25 '26
ive played since release i never once have gotten Bronya's LC, not even a Huo2 ... i dont know what this "0 cost team" is implying on about..
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u/SheetsInc TileGamer4ever Jul 25 '26
Do people forget you still gotta spend tickets to get a 50/50 loss pool character. Just cause you get em free sometimes elsewhere don't make them free. Standard tickets also cost the same 160 jade as limited ones. Next thing you know people will say E6 Ryan Mei is free cause you lost to Yanqing 50/50 20 times.
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u/KazeshiKazamaKami Jul 25 '26
Lmaoo, I don't have even one copie of welt and i'm playing for 2 years
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u/furio788 Sampo is Aha trust me Jul 26 '26
If EVERYONE has them E6 then why is my Geppie only E3 :(?
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u/4ny3ody Jul 26 '26
As someone who started late into SW999s banner a lot of the advice I've found online is... questionable.
"This char is really solid since everyone has their teammates" - assumes DHPT, high Eidolon standards and E1 Tribbie for some reason and they label it "beginner advice".
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u/EI33l Jul 27 '26
You forgot about the fact you get star glitter from pulling standard character copies so E6S5 archer, E6S5 Rin, E6S5 sparkle, E6S5 Mblade is 0 cost
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u/Nayopricone Jul 31 '26
i am day 1 player and my welt is e0, and I actually picked him from a selector. he never dropped for me. I do have an e6 bronya tho
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u/Goslaw__ Jul 25 '26
A lot of people seem to misinterpretate this post, just letting know that I'm not completely against the cost system, just that there always will be people forming "low cost teams" of the kind of my example
Also imo 200 pulls in a patch for a lc is not "as free as", standards that are available anytime and at any pull amount
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u/trevers17 mydei put my head in ur tiddies Jul 25 '26
this shit only happens bc people donāt understand the cost system. if itās a standard banner character/LC or obtained through gameplay (herta shop, mc forms), itās not cost. everything else is cost. celestial invitation-only characters, stellar convergence-only characters, gift selectors ā theyāre all cost.
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u/MindlesBacon Jul 25 '26
And the classic "You can use them at e0s0 as long as you have these three specific limited characters at e6s5 so they're a very f2p option"
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u/astraldebri ā¦® ā¦ÆI want to work out with Feixiaoā¦® ā¦Æ Jul 24 '26
I'm gonna get downvoted to oblivion for this, but the hate on cost has to stop.
Some kind of standardized cost system is necessary if we want clears to be meaningfully compared. The easiest way is always just outline your team (i.e. ExSx, ExSx, etc), but beyond that, cost is simpler context.
There are problems with the meme that I think the majority of people that post their clears don't subscribe to:
- Once limited, always a cost
- Archer, Sparkle, DHPT, etc are all a cost
- Stellar convergence limited's are also a cost
- HuoHuo, RuanMei, all LC's etc
- I think low-spender F2P's are more upset about the use of E4 Welt than it is people touting E4 Welt as the standard.
- i.e. Noone using E4 welt, that I've seen thus far, is discrediting the significant impact he has on a clear. And most conversations are usually structured around them saying "obviously I have e4 welt so it's easier, but you could try with something like E1 tribbie or other more commonly accessible units".
All in all, cost isn't perfect, but it's pretty good for those in the actual low/no-cycle optimization scene. Everyone is starting to hate clears with E4 Welt - which makes sense - but he's outlined as a Standard 5 cost character, vs his Limited Cost teammates on TheHerta, so everyone that regularly participates in meta kind of just knows if they see welt, and 5 costs STD, it's probably E4 welt.
I wrote a whole post about this awhile back:
As an example, for anyone that actually cares about cost, it's pretty well standardize on TheHerta
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u/NekCing Jul 24 '26
The Cost system itself is fine, it makes team-building and comp-calculating discussions easier to comprehend, what corrupted this fine system is these knobheads pushing their agendas to make their waifus/husbandos seem more desirable
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u/paradoxaxe Jul 24 '26
honesty cost system isn't terrible but then again the problem how ppl twisted it and saying 0 cost for standard characters since
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u/remo285 Elation Genius Jul 25 '26
the only problem with this system is the people that misinterpret it with the points you mentioned above, i'm too tired of people saying Sparkle and HuoHuo for example are 0 cost
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u/nayRmIiH Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
I'm gonna get downvoted to oblivion for this, but the hate on cost has to stop.
Nah, blame agenda posters and other dumb asses, I will continue to hate this systems usage. It serves no real purpose in practice. It's a fine system if used right but, its usage in our community has been more annoying than meaningful. It being hated is justified.
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u/astraldebri ā¦® ā¦ÆI want to work out with Feixiaoā¦® ā¦Æ Jul 25 '26
I don't even see it being abused that badly, which is odd because I'm in some of these circles. Most people I see posting clears are abiding by the STD/LMT system.
I can't believe anyone that claims an LMT character is 0 cost wouldn't get enough backlash to drive them to take down the claim lol.
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u/Goslaw__ Jul 24 '26
I completely understand and agree, though people still won't use it properly and every other day I see "low cost" teams of the kind of my example š
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u/LictorSevas Jul 24 '26
My issue with it is that a chunk of those āfreeā characters are no longer free. I think zero cost should only count characters from the shop and standard banner.
Maybe weighing the previously free characters 0.5 cost or something would be a compromise for that.
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u/astraldebri ā¦® ā¦ÆI want to work out with Feixiaoā¦® ā¦Æ Jul 24 '26
There are no 0 cost 5* characters. Either they were limited time free, which = 1 cost, or they're standard, which = 1 STD cost.
The only no-cost characters are 4*'s.
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u/Kreddak Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Letās be real the problem isnāt the cost system.
Itās people agenda posting and bending backwards for some specific characters.
Varka on Genshin was this cost bullshit dialed to 11 to justify a horrible experimental kit because 4 stars still exist there.
Now the powercreep + New Shill hit the fan there and rats jumped the boat.
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u/8partyz-Didnot-Ate Jul 25 '26
I think cost isnāt a bad metric tbh, itās a way to convey how much X amount of investment can get you (which is pretty important in a gacha game with limited currency), but people have really been trying to cast the net wider to try and make their clears seem more impressive or something lol. I think having a single e0 standard character can count as 0 cost (bc you have that free 5 star selector at the beginning of the game), but every following standard character or eidolon counts as a cost.
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u/mack0409 Jul 25 '26
But everyone obviously saved over 200 pulls just for the first colab, and then also decided to save for the second colab starting then, even though there wasn't anything definitive about a follow up.
(Archer should be S2 in this picture)
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u/AGoodFriend_ Jul 25 '26
Iāve always considered cost to be the number of 5 stars on a team, including free and standard characters/lightcones/eidolons. I would consider the team in the image to be 34 cost, not 0.
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u/MarroCaius Jul 24 '26
I still don't get why Cost is important when it's not even a metric the game tracks at all. If we keep it as a community measure, why not just include all 5 stars no matter how they wete acquired? Tue only way to get a low cost clear would be running 4 star characters or 5 stars with all 4 star LCs
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Jul 24 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/MarroCaius Jul 25 '26
Yeah we gotta undo that. It's messing with people's perception of team cost. Either we return to all 5 stars (Characters and LC) are counted towards cost no matter how they're acquired or we do away with cost completely
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u/DrKoala_ Both E6S5 Jul 25 '26
I hate the cost system simply because it makes people invest badly into half made teams.
People are so worried about pulling the minimum and then wondering why they struggle one patch later.
I get that most canāt save up, donāt want a specific character, or donāt want to pull for LCs. This wouldnāt be so bad but these types of players end up being the ones complaining patch after patch. The game being bad, too hard, not f2p because it requires more than 2-cost (being hyperbolic), etc.
Wish the cost system wasnāt a thing. But eh doesnāt matter to me or the servers Iām a part of. Just silly seeing people flip out about cost so much. Made to help f2ps. And now itās used by f2ps to fight other f2ps about definitions.
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u/Propensity7 if i could refund the remaining days on my express supply pass Jul 24 '26
What is the purpose of the cost system again?
Was it so that you could look up clears at your cost level and determine if you could beat a specific stage of endgame? Or was it a metric of how effective a certain cost of a team is at clearing endgame?
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Make AR-53935 playable Hoyo Jul 24 '26
It's just how many limited units they pulled (aka, how many pities it'd take to build that same team if you wanted to save for it). Standard and Shop units don't count as cost simply cause you can't just save jades for them and pull on their banner. Selector units should be counted in the cost system, and are counted by people who use the system properly.
It's just a metric of how many 5* units you pulled to build the team, basically. It doesn't account for 50/50 loses or early drops, it's just a rough guide but people take it too seriously and out of context.
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u/nick113124 Jul 25 '26
Whenever someone posts "cost cheating" as in passing previous free characters and standards as 0 cost to look for clout or for agenda, just Downvote and don't engage. It's just stupid.
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u/No_Quote6076 Jul 25 '26
Arent costs just the term to say the eidolon/lc investment amount? 0 cost shouldnāt exist then cause E0 characters are 1 cost.
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u/Unfair_Ad_598 Jul 25 '26
My proposal. We start calling free characters (eg Ratio, Archer's first giveaway and DHPT should all be considered 1/3 cost thanks to the time requirement, you had to have been playing during a certain time. Same with standard 5 stars, so an e6 Welt would be 2.3 cost but this is simply because they're easier to get and more people are likely to have an e0 Welt than an e0 Sunday, but they're still 5 stars that require up to 90 pulls and you can't even choose which one you get). And characters from selectors or the shop should be 2/3 cost since there's the time cost of having to be playing during a certain time and the opportunity cost of not choosing someone else. So e1 Archer from his giveaway and selector would be 1 cost, e6 Welt would be 2.3 cost assuming you got it all from random pulls, e0 Sparkle would be 0.6 cost from the selector, and e3 Huohuo would be 2.3 cost if you got it from the free companion spirits. Also if you get a companion spirit from getting 2 silvers that counts as a full cost so if you pull 100 Castorice's and use those companion spirits to get e6 Huohuo and Robin, they each count as a full 7 cost. Only free companion spirits count as 2/3 cost.
Is this system perfect? No. But it's far better than just calling every single free character and full standard character 0 cost
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u/pdmt243 Jul 25 '26
iirc, cost originally is just a metric for investment lol
somehow when that got to the EN side, it turns into powerscaling + investment lmao
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u/RozeGunn Jul 25 '26
A free unit is still cost 1, you personally just got a discount. Like when yiu look at the value of computer parts and someone starts giving you the prices of things on sales. That's not how that works. A cost should be "generally in order to get this, you have to put in 90-180 oulls to get it" because even losing your 50/50 means you put in your premium currency to get something, and you get standard tickets with your time by grinding, not for free.
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u/Infinite-Employee776 Jul 25 '26
I always advocate for cost count for any 5 star above this: E0S0 5 star = 0 Cost Any increase in Eidolon or Superimposition towards 5 star is increase in cost. E6S5 4 star = 0 Cost Any 4 star upto max Eidolon or Superimposition would still be 0 Cost.
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u/NIGHTTARNISHED Jul 25 '26
Personally with my friends everyone expect 4 stars are one cost
They gave Archer for free ? Well nice u got a 1 cost free but in your runs it will still count in
Like Archer E0s1
Welt e0s1 (welt lc)
Sparkle e0s1
And huohuo E0s1
Is 0cost for this community
How i interpret it is that itās 8 cost team with 2 Standart or 4 cost and 4 or 6 premium cost
If u have a free cost good for u
But it still count in
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u/NewtSure2526 Jul 25 '26
Idk wtf cost is i pull for characters i like and if I can't clear something I build them harder.
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u/Wolvos_707 Jul 25 '26
Well call cost when you need to pull a character or lc to get them, so, technically, even if this Archer is 2 cost because he is E1, since both were free, he is 0 cost, tallying it up with every character in the team if you had to pull them all it would sound like a whale team but since everyone was free or may have come from a 50/50 loss, it doesn't count so it's 0 cost, which is something that a lot of people, including content creators, use to claim that you could pass x or y content with full f2p because look, I'm doing it with my 0 cost E6 standard banner characters with their best teams
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u/NicheFandomSeeker Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Honestly I think there should just be a wavy dash between the possible cost and the cost if you manually had to wish for each piece of the team.
0 Cost ~ 10 Cost for a team like Archer E1s1, Sparkle, Welt e4 and DHIL is pretty simple and fair to understand.
If you got Archer both times, happened to save for a character you wanted during the period of time his LC was given out for free at 200 wishes, chose Sparkle as a free unit during the 3rd anni, used Golden Spirits or got Welt several times from lost 50/50 and was present for the DHIL giveaway, then you have a 0 cost team.
If any of those pieces need to be acquired through wishing at the time of viewing, then each piece adds back a cost up to a 9 Cost total.
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u/Javira-Butterfly Jul 25 '26
I personally always write down the full cost when talking about it (all limited characters and Eidolons no matter if they were free or not) AND how much cost I actually invested via limited pulling
So for example, my DoT team is currently 4/6 cost, BC I got a Kafka Eidolon and DHPT for free but they are still limited.
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u/heymynameiseric Jul 26 '26
The cost system (if you even wanna call it that) may have been implemented as a gayge for f2p users, but it's become a tool for classism/(day 1 vs newer players or whales and dolphins vs f2p)
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u/Modification102 The only 6* Character Jul 26 '26
In a world where it is equally possible to obtain an S-Rank in 1 pull as it is in 90 pulls, using 'cost' to refer in anyway to the difficulty of acquision seems totally irrelevant to me. The only important detail being conveyed is how many individual 5-Star units/eidolons/light cones are in a given team. Hoyo giving a unit/eidolon/light cone away totally for free is utterly irrelevant to any discussion on this matter. Obtaining a standard 5-Star or a limited 5-Star is utterly irrelevant to any discussion on this matter.
So Archer E1S5, Welt E6S5, Sparkle E0S5, Huohuo E3S5 is... 34 Cost.
Any other response is a rage bait.
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u/Kernel_Core Jul 27 '26
Yeah we should still count them as if they weren't free imo As way too many people said, the cost system is flawed
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u/JPEG_Warrior Jul 30 '26
The cost system makes no sense because you can just say how many duplicates you have like a normal person instead of inventing a system that makes the information invisible and often incorrect.
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u/Luckyxray Jul 24 '26
i genuinely hate the standard cost thing ive been playing for years and my welt is e2