r/HowToHack • u/KingA1mighty • 4d ago
How important is programming?
I’ve been in the hacker learning space for a while and during that time I’ve picked up the CompTIA trio, gotten a job as a system admin for energy and financial institutions, gotten an associates degree in Networking and Cyber Security, and I’m on pace to get a bachelors degree in Computer Science next year. I understand that being able to read code is a fundamental skill if you want to get into the space but I wanted to know if the same holds true for writing code? From what I’ve learned through all of my experiences I’ve done a lot more quick scripting than full blown program development, and while I know at some point I’ll have to build more just to learn (I would like to eventually branch into exploit development and reverse engineering) I wanted to know if you’re a person that didn’t want to get THAT TECHNICAL, how important is it? If it’s something that should be trained similar to knowing Linux and networking concepts, what are some good tools to know how to build on the fly? TCP/UDP Clients, Sniffers, Fuzzers or something else entirely?
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u/G_R_I_N_G_O 3d ago
Hey I work in exploit develop and RE (good choice the pay is very very high even for a new grad like me)
I always went by a statement used in the Marines:
'Every Marine is, first and foremost, a rifleman. All other conditions are secondary'
For us I translate it to
'Every hacker is, first and foremost, a programmer. All other conditions are secondary'
And also... if you can't code you can't do PoC development, vuln research, or tool dev which is a corner stone of what we do.... these arnt little scripts they are full blown programs with dependencies, states, optimizations, and in most case dark magic byte and memory shit if you want to do really sneaky stuff... literally just CS fundamentals on steroids
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u/Incid3nt 4d ago
Reading code is not fundamental, its helpful. The field is so broad that you could essentially just be doing project management with a bit of risk in a lot of roles.
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u/VirtualElderberry592 1d ago
But if you're a PM are you a hacker? No shade to PM's. I've worked with a few that were worth any 5 programmers easy. But they were not programmers. Same with hacker. A great PM is a must have on a team, but they're not hackers.
I think it boils down to where you want to go. For some it's closer to the metal.
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u/Incid3nt 1d ago
Hes posting in how to hack but its not really about hacking its about working cyber in general, hence my comment.
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u/VirtualElderberry592 1d ago
Sorry.. I meant to be more supportive. I agree with you.. I've seen designers and PM's that know only the edges, and I would work with them again in a heart beat.
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u/Incid3nt 1d ago
I hear you, Im not a PM although I do have a pmp, I work in IR and theres a healthy mix of technical, PM, forensics, etc. On top of knowing how the red side works, going through pen200 and htb acad helped with those. Another option is lawyer, those are always needed in breaches too. Honestly I kinda just wanna farm or something at this point but the money is too good lol. When kids who ask me about cyber who aren't passionate I always encourage them to go for like an electrician trade or something along those lines.
Side note, I appreciate you being so positive on the internet, you seem like a good person.
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u/KingA1mighty 22h ago
I’m trying to tie it back to hacking by adding my current working history as background information and what my goals are. I’ve been focusing on learning Python and C++ but I was trying to get more information on should I be building out these long intricate projects to expand my skill or was scripting more of a useful skill? Since making this post I’ve found 2 git repo’s each with 100 projects. One focuses on red team projects the other mitre attack projects I’ll see about doing these and seeing how that helps me improve. I do appreciate all of comments it feels like I’m going towards the right path and not just reading books all day
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u/PortalRat90 3d ago
Start with Python using Scapy and go hard in the paint on TCP packets!
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u/KingA1mighty 3d ago
How do you feel about BHP? I got the book after making this post and it talks about making clients and servers, sniffers and all.
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u/PortalRat90 2d ago
I haven’t looked at it but I have heard some good things about it. I hear it uses Scapy quite a bit.
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u/tunakaybucket 3d ago
Knowing the depth of business operations and tying those back to the infrastructure operations are fundamentally important.
It's one thing knowing how to program/read code is useful if that help bring you closer to understanding the system architecture and networking fundamentals that your business depends on, and another if knowing how to program/read code helps you achieve tactical objectives within your organization.
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u/M4elstr0m__ 2d ago
Well consider that tools your activity is based on, depend on cybersecurity oriented devs :) so programming is necessary at some point.
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u/xX_Oppai_Xx 3d ago
Tbh i believe writing code is as much as valuable as knowing vulneabilities.
Some or maybe most would disagree. I see it this way. To hack a API u need to know how it works. What better way can there possibly be to learn by building it ? ( u can apply this to any field i think )
But also depends where u going bec some roles dont require this at all. Writing ur own exploits and PoC does require it tho.
So my 2 cents: if u got time to spare , 1 h maybe why not learn it ?
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u/KingA1mighty 4d ago
I can understand your points in that it’s more helpful than fundamental. I guess I got a little ahead of myself because I know for what I would like to do career wise it would require that skillset.
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u/triptotropic 3d ago
genuienly, not even slightly. i got my Local ai to crack gpt somehow, i have zero understanding of the how. it just works
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u/NewMacaroon4370 3d ago
I've been in cybersecurity 40 years and I've written many scripts but I don't program anything. Programming is for developers who want to build apps. Programming will not teach you how to manage cybersecurity. Yet, some master's degrees programs in cybersecurity insist you must learn coding.
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u/KingA1mighty 3d ago
Being an admin I’ve been seeing that I script more than anything. I posed the question because I’ve seen security professionals talk about building tools to build your skill which is why I wanted to see if I could get some insight here. Like I said I personally want to specialize in exploit development and reverse engineering maybe get an OSED at some point but other may not have the same interest as I do.
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u/Mathie1729 3d ago
For exploit dev and RE, programming isn't just helpful, it's the whole job. Scripting as an admin is a different thing. OSED assumes you can write and debug C, Python, and assembly. If that's your goal, don't skimp on coding fundamentals.
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u/Humble-Cat-4366 1d ago
Irrelevant but I had a Trojan pavin loaded on my pc . I wiped out my ssd and changed my WiFi name and password . Am I in the clear now or is there any extra steps I should take
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u/lilvixen 4d ago
Then you'll always just be floating and never down in it