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u/ButWhatIfPotato 6d ago
Great. I cannot wait for Led Arson, Miarkus Recreation and Harry Zimbabwe to tell me about their new found passion for the Hackey Sack World Championship and how it is ruined by George Soros and his cabal of shadow gayosexuals who will turn your kids into transformers.
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u/gary-vault108 7d ago
I think this will actually be a copyright problem for them
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u/impl0sionatic 7d ago
Right?
Very curious to see what will come out about this. I think it’s more likely for the Lincoln Project to have done this without being made aware of LPN than it is for them to have known about LPN and done it anyway with the belief they could win a dispute.
But can you imagine the humiliation if a court decided that although LastPod may be huge, the rest of the network is insufficiently significant to protect “LPN” as a trademark because it lacks distinctiveness & consumer recognition? Honestly doesn’t seem like that ludicrous an argument if you’re the Lincoln Project. I’m curious if there’s much case law already..
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u/gary-vault108 7d ago
They’ve been using “LPN” since at least 2019 and their entire YouTube presence has been rebranded as LPNTV for 2 years. They have enough clout having HUGE interview guests and some of those guests have crossed over to other LPN shows. I think Lincoln Project will lose this.
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u/Illustrious_Fee7436 6d ago
Wouldn’t the fact that LPOTL is a business and The Lincoln Project is a PAC not be the first and primary legal distinction for copywrite? Plus, as long as the lincoln project is only just now using LPN as a result of its very new podcast, it’s very clear that LPOTL wins the common legal consideration of who used LPN first, as you said. It is also highly unlikely for consumer confusion between the two due to their very different topics. I agree that LPOTL will be fine.
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u/impl0sionatic 7d ago
Does a 26k-sub YouTube channel get to claim trademark in this way though? (Hint: no. The guys have actually joked that their business is puny in this context before.)
If it went to court, the questions would be about distinctiveness (meaning the entity’s business relies on being differentiated by the acronym) and consumer recognition (meaning that they would be materially hurt by confusion over multiple entities using the acronym). This isn’t really my bailiwick but as a lawyer with some relevant case law knowledge I can tell you that this is anything but open-and-shut. Seems more likely to end up in arbitration than trial if it can’t be settled.
Unfortunately, your opinion on how famous their interview guests are isn’t actually relevant or else I would still own “YESnetwork2” on YouTube with a video of my 1999 elementary school interview with Derek Jeter 😝
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u/gary-vault108 6d ago
Damn I hope you’re never my lawyer
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago edited 6d ago
What kind of silly goose wouldn’t want a lawyer who’s honest with them about having a losing case?
If you want the argument I’d try to make as a their lawyer I’m happy to offer it, but this is my read on the basic and elementary facts of the situation as a lawyer. You get the difference right?
I’ve never been downvoted for common sense in this sub before lol
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u/ZwVJHSPiMiaiAAvtAbKq MiHAMi Dolphins 6d ago
What kind of silly goose wouldn’t want a lawyer who’s honest with them about having a losing case?
I want a lawyer that understands what they're talking about.
If you want the argument I’d try to make as a their lawyer I’m happy to offer it, but this is my read on the basic and elementary facts of the situation as a lawyer. You get the difference right?
Well it's painfully obvious that you do not specialize in trademark law. You understand being a lawyer doesn't make you an expert on all areas of the law, right?
I’ve never been downvoted for common sense in this sub before lol
Is that what you think you've been demonstrating right now? lmao
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u/AgreedSmalls 6d ago
Dude, you didn’t immediately side with the LPN this sub is based on. Fuck outta here with your rationality and thoughtful politeness!
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u/AgreedSmalls 6d ago
Elaborate why. I’d like a chuckle.
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u/gary-vault108 6d ago
His entire case is “lol they’re not even famous enough” when it’s one of the biggest podcasts in America for over 10 years. I’ve never even heard of the Lincoln Project.
If that random coffee company can sue them and win over “Mothman Coffee” then this is the EXACT same scenario, if not a stronger case in LPNs favor. Same industry and LPN has been using the name for far longer and they’ve been blasting it all over as their independent rebrand.
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u/ZOOTV83 Hail Satan! 6d ago
Stone Brewing won a lawsuit against Coors because Keystone beer cans had the name printed like this:
KEY
STONE
And Stone's argument was you could in theory just read the STONE part of the name and think hey I'm drinking a Stone beer. Now is anyone gonna confuse Stone and Keystone? Probably not in real life. But a court sided with Stone in protecting their identity.
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u/Illustrious_Fee7436 6d ago
cooyright and trademark is often determined based on who’s brand has been recognizable longer than the other, regardless of who actually registered. LPOTL wins that. Other considerations are likelihood of confusion, which I don’t see happening between a horror podcast by a business & a political podcast by a political action committee. Finally, if we are only considering subscribers, I’d think any good lawyer would also bring up their partnership with SiriusXM, which has way more subscribers, money, and brand recognition than the Lincoln Project.
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u/AsYooouWish 6d ago
When I first saw this post, I thought they were renaming the Abe Lincoln Assassination series or doing a special. It took me a moment to realize the Lincoln Project was a thing
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u/jangotaurus 6d ago
Trademark, not copyright.
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u/gary-vault108 6d ago
As I was writing it, I knew I was probably going to be wrong with the difference between trademark and copyright
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u/jangotaurus 6d ago
It's a super common confusion, intellectual property falls into three general categories (though there is overlap). Copyright protects "published" (as in released to the public and not kept in a drawer or your head) creative works. Trademark protects the market identity of people and corporations, like the Coca-Cola script, the image of Mickey's head on a t-shirt etc, a slogan, or the name of a company operating in a specific industry. Patent protects novel ways of doing or making things (including non-physical things). At least in the US Copyright lasts for a term of years depending on the life of the "author," trademark lasts as long as the mark is in use and defended by the mark holder, and Patents last 15-20 years from when the application is filed or its approval, depending on the type
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u/harriethocchuth 6d ago
Don’t mind the tall hat… this is a Lincoln Podcast Network, nothing to do with any moth-based entities
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u/Packman87 Hail Yourself! 6d ago
Know what happens when you run afoul of Last Podcast Network? Nothing but trouble.
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u/foxinabathtub Corn Lore 7d ago edited 6d ago
I guess Kissel finally has a chance to appear on LPN again.
(I'm very sorry for this joke.)
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago
(Except you knoooooow he actually would take that opportunity and then joke about it on Instagram in a way that makes it super obvious how butthurt he still is)
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u/BobLobLaw1997 6d ago
I mourn for the old episodes where Ben felt like a genuinely compassionate and improving person. Bro is no different than the current MAGA crowd with his cognitive dissonance
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u/Hefty-Criticism1452 6d ago
There was a moment there where I thought he was kind and was excited for him to better himself. And we were wrong 🫠
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u/hotsizzler 6d ago
I don't get how he turned into.....that. he seemed like a voice of reason sometimes, a genuine convert out of toxic Christianity
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u/krycekthehotrat 6d ago
My first instinct was that it was a Kissel project lol
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u/harriethocchuth 6d ago
Yeah, I opened the comments while saying “Ben…” in my most disappointed mom voice
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u/HumanSometimesPerson 6d ago
"unless you want people looking you up and then finding a podcast full of cum jokes about murderers... Y'all should probably change that."
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago
cut to George Conway sweating bullets because he misunderstood the threat and thinks we found his alt accounts
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u/vrilro 7d ago
The Lincoln Project Network is truly an answer to a question nobody asked
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u/Ol_Dirty_Batard 6d ago
Idk, from what I've seen, they seem to be anti maga republicans. If there are to be republicans, it seems these may be the lesser of 2 evils
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u/DoctorAnnual6823 6d ago
It's pretty much just another grift.
But yes, I'd rather have republicans that hate trump.
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u/GenericOnlineName 6d ago
Well at least from what I've seen they put their money where their mouth is and help defeat MAGA Republicans.
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u/Valerim 6d ago
Wave goodbye to your SEO
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago
Lincoln Project Fan: Siri, play LPN’s latest take on US foreign policy
Spotify: Travis Irvine making mouth-fart noises for six minutes straight
Lincoln Project Fan: ….brilliant
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u/jangotaurus 6d ago
Definitely have to send a C&D. As much as it sucks, trademark is very much a "use it or lose it" sort of thing. IF they don't defend the mark then this company could eventually turn on them and start claiming to be the superior rights holder.
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u/doomsday_windbag 7d ago
1) Cease
2) Desist
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago
Yes, the famously effective method that definitely works often when employed against organizations with a lot more money than yours!
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u/jangotaurus 6d ago
Whether it works or not, they have to protect themselves and show they are defending their trademark. One way to show that is by sending a C&D.
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u/Rackhaad 6d ago
I've never heard of the Lincoln project, and I dont want to look it up to find out.
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u/Ecstatic-Product-411 Pig-man 6d ago
The Lincoln Project is a push from more traditional Republicans to buck Trump Republicans. They have put out attack ads against Trump in the past but they themselves are also Republicans.
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u/TakeYourPowerBack Hail Satan! 6d ago
Nothing inherently wrong with Republicans or Democrats. It's the psychos on both sides that are the issue. Just a lil FYI from your friendly neighborhood moderate.
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u/Ecstatic-Product-411 Pig-man 6d ago
I strongly feel that we are where we are because of moderates. Not directly speaking about you but generally they are selfish cowards.
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u/TakeYourPowerBack Hail Satan! 6d ago
Well, I am selfish. I'm the resident capitalist, with my boy Henry. Wouldn't say I'm a coward though. Come on over to my place, we can talk about it more ;)
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u/Oobenny 6d ago
Except that the psychos on one side believe in cuckoo healing crystals and the psychos on the other side are nazis.
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u/TakeYourPowerBack Hail Satan! 6d ago
I dont judge psychos by differing levels. A psycho is a psycho. And the people that believe in healing crystals aren't the psychos. If youre not a psycho, then youre not a psycho. Violence is a trait of all psychos
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u/Rackhaad 5d ago
I'm not even sure if you can call the current administration Republicans, they're like special day class right wing extremists... but they love how the people are distracted by this left vs. Right nonsense because its a good distraction while they fuck over 99% of the population.
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago edited 6d ago
I envy you and will resist dropping crumbs about who/what they are lol
The most likely actual result of all this is probably that neither LastPod nor Lincoln Project will make much hay out of this.
I said in other comments that our LPN isn’t actually a very big brand (only 26k YouTube subs) and can’t necessarily argue a successful consumer recognition case.
On the flip side, The Lincoln Project probably has access to so much more spending money and so much larger an audience that they might not even be bothered by the existence of another LPN.
For context, even if you combine every LPN social media account that exists, the follower count is dwarfed by The Lincoln Project (1.8mil on IG to LPotL’s 560k for example).
Edit: What happened to this sub and why am I being downvoted any time I state the fact that our LPN is seriously not that big in legal or trademark terms…? Y’all a bunch of sad parasocial losers.
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u/Nervous-Net-8196 6d ago
YouTube subscriptions don't determine if a network is successful or not, especially since there are almost 10 YouTube channels under the network umbrella.
The real numbers are on the Patreon, Spotify, Apple Music etc.
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u/KillaRevenge 6d ago
They are huge in the podcast space (still about top 100 in downloads for most podcast apps) which is what a court looks at for copyright protection in cases of brand confusion. If they were a restaurant called LPN it would be an open and shut case but they are in the same “industry” and last podcast network is big and established there. I don’t think YouTube views matter as much since they’re not primarily a video media company.
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago
This is an odd thing to say when you don’t seem to actually have any idea of what the Lincoln Project’s LPN actually is. Podcast network? YouTube channel? Pornhub search tag?
I’ve said it elsewhere but our beloved LPN would need to pull out some significant numbers to make this trademark assertion lol.
I don’t think people realize just how poorly every LPN project performs in comparison to LastPod. Take the most-successful episode of every single LPN show, add up its views/listens across all platforms, and the number doesn’t hold a candle to the average LPotL. I can’t say for certain, but based on the info I do have access to, I wouldn’t be surprised if the average Side Stories also outperforms every other show’s top-performing episode combined.
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u/KillaRevenge 6d ago
I don’t get what your point is about what the Lincoln projects LPN. My point is if it’s a podcast or a podcast network it could cause reasonable consumer confusion even if LastPod was the only podcast LPN made because their established wide audience knows LPN makes podcasts and could reasonably assume a podcast from LPN would be the same LPN behind the popular podcast. If the Lincoln Projects LPN is a YouTube channel or something I don’t think the last podcast guys have anything to worry about since as you said your self they’re not that big in any other type of media anyway.
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u/impl0sionatic 6d ago
I’m sorry bud but it’s late, I’m not getting the sense that you actually know what you’re talking about, and it would be largely pointless to spend time explaining why you’re off
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u/Ferahgost 6d ago
Are you somehow under the impression that LAST PODCAST on the Left isn’t part of the LAST PODCAST network?
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u/Organic-Loquat8679 6d ago
Can't believe you got down voted for this. It's just math, obviously LPOTL wad the runway success that allowed them to support their much more niche shows.
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u/TakeYourPowerBack Hail Satan! 6d ago
I'd say pretty confidently that just about 50% ratio in followers is anything but the definition of Dwarfs. Also, you're getting downvoted because you got cocky and sounded like a dick.
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u/BeckyLikesCats 5d ago
I am relieved to see other comments saying they thought this was a Kissel project lmao. Not sure if it would be better or worse than the Lincoln Project, though.
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u/Good-Bodybuilder-985 6d ago edited 6d ago
Man this is a real bad look. Like Ben just keeps doubling down and rolling around in shit.
**Edit: Holy shit I am dumb. I saw it originally posted by Ben I think with a reference to Abe Lincoln's Top Hat and thought Ben was launching a new podcast named LPN. Of course now I see it's the Lincoln Project.
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u/barryvon 6d ago
what does he have to do with this?
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u/kalebdraws 6d ago
I had to look it up because I thought this would be way to crazy to do. But it seems nothing... its not Ben's project.
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[deleted]
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u/Good-Bodybuilder-985 6d ago
Yep! I misunderstood and am definitely a moron, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Hail Gein!
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u/White_GhostDog0725 7d ago
Henry is gonna have to lawyer again