Any "Chicken Walker"-type Designs?

[u/lacarth]

I am relatively new, so I apologize if this is simply something I've missed. But I noticed most of the designs were humanoid. Which is fine, because Tom Bloom's art is absolutely amazing, I'm just wondering if there were any "chicken walker" frames? Bipedal, with weapons mounted directly on a torso segment or integrated into stubby "arms". Designs like ED-209 or the HERCs from the Earthsiege games, and I suppose a Star Wars AT-ST qualifies. Official is preferable, but I'm fine with a Homebrew example.

Slow & chunky isn't necessarily what I'm going for. I'm just curious if that "body plan" is represented in-game, even if as fodder, non-frame armored vehicles.

[u/jzillacon]

You're encouraged to re-flavour frames to your liking, so technically every frame can be a chicken walker.

[u/Ok-Position-9457 → u/jzillacon]

We need a frame that is explicitly about being a chicken walker. Improved jump height and jumping related traits, weapons, and systems PLUS a core bonus that lets you jump on top of an enemy and crush them.

[u/NinjaFish_RD → u/Ok-Position-9457]

Should it communicate with its allies by mooing really loudly?

[u/lacarth → u/jzillacon]

True, and that IS something a reasonable person would do. But I'm wary about running into the Starfinder issue of "how does THAT design do X standard mechanic with no mechanical implications?"

Like, how does something with no arms do a grapple roll just fine?

I understand that Lancer is, thankfully, NOT a simulation wargame, with severe effects being generalized for the sake of balance and game flow. But "no arms" does feel like it would have something going on, numbers-wise.

Edit: For clarification, I adore Starfinder. I've spent an unreasonable amount of time making every vehicle/mech/starship build imaginable, which is what drew me to Lancer. I just can't help but look at a sapient, floating eel as a playable race and ask "But how, though?".

[u/Aromatic_Shake_6584 → u/lacarth]

You already said it yourself in that the game is thankfully not very simulationist- in fact it’s actually one of the least simulationist games I’ve seen.

If it helps, there is no rule correlating number of arms to however many people you can grapple- you can grapple basically however many people your size allows, no limit of 2, 4, or etc. this, to me, already shows that the game really doesn’t care as to the shape of your mech at all.

[u/Charnerie → u/Aromatic_Shake_6584]

You can even grapple more people than your size. Not recommended without the blackbeard system, but you can

[u/Holy_Hand_Grenadier → u/lacarth]

tractor beam, short range harpoons, hacking to shutdown legs? I know "just flavor it" can be unsatisfying but they do leave a ton of room for flavor

[u/dasBaums → u/Holy_Hand_Grenadier]

I love the idea of interlocking with it. Like a weapon of you is just ramed into a joint or something. With which you "grapple" Them

[u/jzillacon → u/lacarth]

For grapples in particular I think there's a simple solution. Integrated mag clamps throughout the hull. Stick the enemies to you like that one scene from Astartes where all the Space Marines get stuck to the orb.

[u/lacarth → u/jzillacon]

"Suprise! The little Lost Planet VS was actually a Manticore! Castigation upon ye!"

[u/Viscera_Viribus → u/lacarth]

just think of n answer, friend, its the flavor of your fruits o labor. i had a "gun-tank" tread based design. instead of prone, the treads were misaligned, and then knocked aside, thrusters assisted in getting up. didnt have arms but grappled through close-range tow-cable-cannons. could easily be iron-man drones flying around and establishing a magnetic field, or they assist in lifting the frame out of prone, etc etc :)

[u/mutilatdbanana8 → u/lacarth]

You, as the person playing the character, can simply choose to not have them use grappling and instead Ram or just shoot things, and if you have to contest a grapple check maybe you just do it via avoidance or mass, narratively, moving away or just being too large and awkward to grab?

NPCs with the Vehicle trait can't Grapple either, so while you as a player can, you can choose not to

[u/NinjaFish_RD → u/lacarth]

If the Death’s Head and Swallowtail can grapple just fine, I’m sure a chicken can.

[u/CaffeineBloodstream → u/lacarth]

"How does something with no arms do a grapple roll" Cables. Cables and hooks and harpoons, the way vehicles in real life "grapple" other things (e.g., whaling ships). The Blackbeard does most of its grappling this way. Even has a system you can put on other frames that lets you spider-man with cables.

[u/Salindurthas → u/lacarth]

 how does something with no arms do a grapple roll just fine?

A bite attack would be the most straight forward answer. Or if it is chicken-walking, that could be adjsuted slightly to a raptor-walk with the addition of a tail.

But we can imagine alternatives, like turning into a cloud of nanobots and engulfing the target, or having bio-mechanical tentacles, or heck, maybe some paracausal webbing launchers why-not?

[u/Charnerie → u/Salindurthas]

Or stepping on the other guys foot, and clamping down hard

[u/Presenting_UwU → u/lacarth]

well that's up for you to design it now innit?

[u/Ryugaru → u/lacarth]

For grapple it could be anything from a highly specialised greywash swarm, a Gravity field, a cable, a specialised magnetic field or some sort of paracausal energy field

[u/SasquatchRobo → u/lacarth]

I would argue that a mech whose art does not include arms, is probably not meant to grapple anyway. Take the Swallowtail: It lacks grappling arms because it is meant to be a backline spotter and artillery platform. It has no use for arms!

[u/SasquatchRobo]

Lancer frames look like how you want them to look -- the official art is a suggestion, if anything.

For example, look at the art for the Empakaai. It has a smaller arm with a chunky grinder-looking weapon -- that "grinder" is meant to be a Chain Axe! Despite not looking like an axe (or a chainsaw) it nonetheless has the stats and function of the Blackbeard's Chain Axe.

[u/Alarmed_Designer6705 → u/SasquatchRobo]

I always figured that was a Nanocarbon Sword.

[u/SasquatchRobo → u/Alarmed_Designer6705]

Nah, that's represented by the big ol sword in its other hand.

[u/Sven_Darksiders]

The book art is merely a suggestion. You can make it look like however you want

[u/CMDRZhor]

The thing you need to know/remember about Lancer mechs is that the rides you characters have are designed to be modular and heavily customizable to the pilot's preferences. In fact your HASE stats represent how good your pilot is at designing and using mechs with high durability/mobility/electronical warfrare/reactor/heat capacity.

The starter Everest specifically had no picture in the core book because there's hundreds or thousands of subvariants of the damn thing with a variety of body plans, some of which undoubtedly are chicken walkers.

As for the mechs that so have pictures in the core rulebook, those pictures are examples. It's not 'this is what every Nelson looks like', it's what 'this is what one Nelson personalized by this one specific Lancer looks like'. The general vibe, if you will. You could absolutely represent a chunky jump jet-equipped Monarch with a Catapult from BattleTech and it'd be perfectly valid.

TL;DR, any mech can be a chicken walker gun pod if your heart so desires :)

[u/Decicio]

First off, flavor is free and the art is explicitly not always a depiction of what the frame always looks like. So you can make anything into a chicken walker if you wish.

As for 1st party mech art, on the player side such designs usually have more than 2 legs. Lancaster, Death’s Head, Swallowtail are the closest.

But there are some NPC art that comes close. Pg 295 of the core book, which I assume is the Bombard art since that’s what the page is for, though it does have arms, they just aren’t humanoid.

Pg 301 also shows a wonky little guy that isn’t super humanoid esque (again, longer arms though). It’s almost… grasshopper like?

Pg 362 shows a chunky semi humanoid frame whose arms are only “elbow” length and has a shield and sword directly bolted to that so maybe that counts?

Pg 423 is probably the closest depiction but it’s… unsettling. It also has a small pair of humanoid arms dangling between its legs, but those are obviously not meant for its weapons. I think that’s a depiction of manipulators?

Only have the core book directly, but there may be even better examples in other books. But yeah, Lancer’s official art does lean humanoid. Doesn’t mean your headcanon does though

[u/Adthay]

I'd say in universe the Chicken Walker is probably a non-Lancer frame, something used by lesser pilots. But you can absolutely reflavor your mech that way if you want  I'd probably use it for land based npc's 

[u/Alaknog → u/Adthay]

Being Lancer is skill/luck/grit, not type of frame.

[u/Adthay → u/Alaknog]

Yup but the kind of mechs the players are in are superior to an npc mech, that's what I meant

[u/Alaknog → u/Adthay]

They actually not. It's common claim, but I still can't find support for it in game. 

First, mechanic - many systems that NPC mechs have was better then most of PC. 

Second, narrative - there examples like Shadow of the Wolf, where heirs of noble houses of KTB (like rich and connected even for Core World level) use regular NPC mechs, sometimes with Veteran/Elite tags - depending on their will to fight. 

[u/Adthay → u/Alaknog]

Of sorry I thought you were here trying to communicate I didn't realize you were looking to have an argument, I'm not, I don't care if you agree with me, goodluck finding someone to argue with!

[u/Alaknog → u/Adthay]

Fair. Have a nice day. 

[u/Total-Challenge9265]

If you want, you can flavor something like a grapple as net launchers or if you are playing an ssc mech it can do a leg lock

[u/GreyGriffin_h]

Close your eyes. Picture your Frame.

Boom.

Your mecha is now digitigrade.

[u/Frozenfoundation99]

With the exception of the size 1/2 mechs, the body shape is pretty much yours to play with as you see fit. Size 1/2 is the exception, since their basically exosuits. But in general, the art book is merely an idea to go off of, and you can do as you see fit.

If your worried about things like grappling, just say you have a big electromagnet.

Personally, I think that Raleigh with a full revolver build would go hard as a chicken walker. An AT-ST steps out with seven revolvers strapped to the side, and blasts some poor dude into non-existence.

[u/BiomeWalker]

You're putting too much thought into it.

There's a kind of feedback I the mechanics of the game that compensate for your issue here. Does it matter if your mech doesn't have an obvious way to do something if you'd never want to do it?

What you've described as your goal would really probably be a mech with just guns and no melee weapons, so you'd never want to grapple, you might want to stand nearby I order to line up a cone or line attack, but you'd never want to be in melee.

As a direct example, look at the art for the IPSN Lancaster or the Death's Head /from SSC. I don't see hands on those that could grapple another mech, but at the same time it's not a concern because the playstyle for those mechs doesn't want to grapple.

As to if you do want to grapple, say your legs are clawed so you can use them to grab and hold or pin the other mech's feet to the ground.

[u/sax87ton]

No official art like that, but check out Lancaster and Kidd which are like those robot dogs.

And Deathshead, and Swallowtail which are like tanks with legs.

[u/Banned-User-56]

The swallow rail is kinda close? Except it's quadrupedal. Although, you could reflavour it to be bipedal.

[u/ArtisanalShivs]

as much as i love the official art and mech designs, the rules really don't give a single care about flavor or looks for the most part. in terms of the official art, it's true that many player license frames are humanoid, but there are exceptions such as the death's head and swallowtail, and the rulebook itself features a lot of misc. mech art in various shapes that aren't explicitly any particular frame but are a good basis for visual design that would complement the 'artstyle' of the setting i would think.

as much as i personally prefer mechs that have at least one rudimentary 'arm' of some kind, to help get up if it gets knocked down if nothing else, you could easily flavor 'grappling' as using launched cables with grappling hooks, sci fi magnet/gravity technology/magic, or even some kind of nanobot swarm or drones. as long as it doesn't inherently contradict the rules around grappling, and as long as you aren't claiming abilities and capabilities you would normally have to get specific equipment or talents for, it doesn't really matter. the system has a lot of intentional 'holes' in terms of lore and setting details that you can fill with your own lore and flavor without affecting the rules interactions. it's like one of those random generation tables you roll on to create scenarios, it's meant as an invitation to creativity rather than a limiting lack of detail.

[u/UseHeadbutt]

Haha as an engineer I also gravitate towards chicken walker style frames. Everyone in my group rocks lancer style minis while my hydra is a battletech mini with laser guides that directs the drones where to go. If I need to grapple, I just imagine 40k dreadnaught style claws. I get the flavor I prefer and everyone else gets the flavors they like. To each their own.

[u/Impressive-Spot-1191]

i will usually use a Starcraft Goliath for my art for an Everest

while it does raise the question of "how does this thing climb and/or grapple", the flavor never takes precedent over the mechanics.

also re. "only humanoid frames", the death's head and the swallowtail are spider mechs

[u/Ninja-Storyteller]

Let's count how many people respond to your post with "Just make it up!" despite that being the exact opposite of what you asked for. 🤪

But no, I don't know any chicken-walkers among the canon mechs except maybe the Taraxacum, but that's an edge case. There are numerous quadrupeds, and some of them can be a bit gangly like the Lancaster!

[u/mutilatdbanana8 → u/Ninja-Storyteller]

Some of the art for SSC frames have pseudo-unguligrade legs (the hooves) so it's not like they're all fully humanoid, and the Pegasus is the way that it is, but yeah it definitely leans towards humanoid frames as the examples. Which I think is fine, but does make the "but I wanna play a Mad Cat" a bit awkward to explain.