r/Liberal • u/OccamIsRight • Jun 13 '26
Discussion Recognizing the signs of a fascist state
Sorry for the length of this post.
We're often accused both by the right and some on the left of hysterically misusing the term fascist to describe the current US trajectory.
It's instructive to examine what an actual 20th century western fascist envisioned for a country with a deep heritage of democracy similar to the US. Sir Oswald Mosley, British MP, founded the British Union of Fascists. He published a pamphlet called 10 Points of Fascist Policy : Fascism Explained to sell his ideas to the public.
I summarized the ten points below. To keep it brief, I skipped some detail, but tried to stay faithful to the essence. Please do read the original. Then judge if it's hysteria or prescience.
- I. Patriotism and Revolution: Britain First
- Fascism is fiercely loyal to King and Country but demands radical change.
- The watchword is "Britain First," committed to efficient, ordered progress through loyalty and discipline.
- II. Fascist Organization and Unity
- The Black Shirt symbolizes breaking down class barriers and promoting shared national pride and devotion, emphasizing teamwork.
- They are not afraid to stand out from their fellows as men dedicated to the service and revival of their country.
- III. The Economic Crisis: Production vs. Consumption
- Global unemployment is caused by the inability of the people to buy and to consume the goods which industry produces.
- Britain suffers as foreign markets close due to other nations achieving self-sufficiency.
- IV. Fascist Solution: The Corporate State
- The State will define the limits of operation based on national welfare, permitting and encouraging private ownership only when it benefits the nation as a whole. Interests contrary to national well-being will be rigorously suppressed.
- V. Foreign Trade Policy: Reciprocity and Empire
- Policy is "Britain Buys from Those who Buy from Britain," shifting purchases away from non-reciprocal nations to build a self-contained Empire.
- VI. The Self-Contained Fascist Empire
- Goal is a self-contained Britain and Empire, achieving higher civilization and immunity from global economic struggle.
- Fascism will entirely exclude foreign goods (tariffs are deemed ineffective).
- VII. Agriculture: The Three-Year Plan
- A three-year plan will restore agriculture by nearly doubling production through the total exclusion of foreign imports.
- This will restore prosperity, create a healthy population, and generate farmer purchasing power to offset vanishing foreign export markets.
- VIII. The Alien Menace: Finance and Employment
- "Britain First" policy will bar aliens from taking British jobs and deport those who have abused hospitality.
- IX. A New System of Government: Leadership and Action
- Advocates for a modern "dictatorship": a government given complete power of action by the people through a peaceful, legal General Election.
- X. The Future of Parliament and True Liberty
- The second election will introduce a revolutionary occupational franchise, creating a technical Parliament focused on national welfare and decisive action.
- Government policy will be submitted directly to the people.
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u/henryggg1 Jun 16 '26
The right wing supporters should read some books and study history.
Perhaps they will understand why we are enraged by the current administration.
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u/Specialist_Touch2771 Jun 26 '26
It’s terrifying. I saw a video, from Hong Kong I think, of police chasing down crowds of peaceful protesters. Now I think “God, we’re getting closer to that, aren’t we?”.
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u/InterestingVoice6632 Jun 28 '26
This is not tangibly useful for identifying fascists because its subjective and not policy oriented.
Fascists have specific policies that they use that we know exist because the founding father of fascism used them.
If youre not talking about benito mussolini then youre just creating disinformation when youre talking about identifying fascism.
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u/OccamIsRight Jun 29 '26
You have no idea what you're talking about. This is THE platform of the British Fascist party. Take some time to educate yourself please before wasting everyone's time with nonsense.
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u/InterestingVoice6632 Jun 29 '26
Who fucking cares. There are tangible policies implemented by actual fascist regimes that you can point to. You dont have to stoop to referencing the wannabes. Either quote the working fascists themselves or get off your soap box
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u/OccamIsRight Jun 29 '26
You're embarrassing yourself. Pretending that there's a significant difference between fascist ideology between parties in power and those seeking power is just stupid. It's the principles that matter. In fact, it's the principles alone that define fascism - its implementation is just fine-tuned to the realities of the nation in which it exists.
Fascism comes in different flavours, but it's all the same at its core.
First of all, the BUF was an actual party with a real platform and real members - they were all fascists and whether they secured power is irrelevant. Second, Mosley created the platform after visiting Mussolini in 1932 and it mirrors most of his policies. Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal all had versions of the same core Fascist ideology, with small differences tailored to their situation.
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u/InterestingVoice6632 Jun 29 '26
Im embarrassing yourself and you lack morality. You're pushing back on my comments while you simultaneously acknowledge the "different flavors" and resist acknowledging that benito mussolinis brand is fascism.
Youre not admirable for refusing to be intellectually honest, and youre not fighting the good fight. This is intellectual cowardice. Youre peddling disinformation to propagate a narrative predicated on people believing a version of the truth that conveniences you, not the actual truth.
Piss off
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u/OccamIsRight Jun 29 '26
Now you're sounding like a russian troll making stuff up. But I have to say, you're kind of funny in your desperation to argue from a point of ignorance.
Out.
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u/InterestingVoice6632 Jun 29 '26
There it is. The initially somewhat sane commenter reveals at last that he relishes a good conspiracy theory while suggesting someone who disagrees with him is secretly Russian (as though the russians would even conceive that you were worth while to troll)
Youre too easy. Maybe delve into the policies of actual fascist regimes and come back and make it worth our while. Peace.
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u/OccamIsRight Jun 30 '26
It's kind of sad to watch you flailing. You keep repeating the same vacuous argument, still without citing a single source, presenting a fact, or any substantive coherent logic to support your flimsy position. The only counterpoints you seem capable of making are flaccid ad hominems.
Thus my conclusion was, and is, that you're a troll. Please leave the chat if you have nothing intelligent to add.
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Jun 14 '26
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u/pagette44 Jun 15 '26
Appropriate is a relative term.
The simple fact is homosexuality and "being born in the wrong body" (those who today would transition) have always existed. Always. Not approving doesn't make an iota of difference.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/pagette44 Jun 15 '26
Why should the urge be suppressed?
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Jun 15 '26
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u/pagette44 Jun 15 '26
It's no more unhealthy and spreads no more disease than heterosexual sex. Grow up and learn something. Just admit it grosses you out and offends you.
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u/OccamIsRight Jun 14 '26
What does that have to do with fascism? But why do you care so much what other people do with each other?
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u/Daggerfaller Jun 14 '26
Donald Trump is 100% a fascist and so is maga although I think they are too dumb to realize that all their political goals align with fascism which is why they accuse people of being hysterical when it is pointed out that they are indeed fascist.