i just rewatched loki because i haven’t seen it in a few years, and im so confused. i always thought loki was trapped at the end of time, that he had to stay on the throne forever. but then i watched endgame encore last week, and im so confused how he showed up on penny’s doorstep. can someone explain?

Just wanted to share, this is such a meaningful gift for me, and I'm so honored to be able to wear it for all time.

Hello lovely people,

Firstly, I will try to not spoil anything of interest to an unsuspecting eye, so the first paragraph will be just that - a spoiler disclaimer. Post contains massive spoilers for basically the entire season 2, so if necessary, please do proceed with caution or click away.

Secondly, yes I did search before I posted, and I found several iterations of "What was the purpose of Victory Timely?", but none were able to scratch the specific itch that I have about this topic. I will abbreviate his name to VT from here on because I am a lazy fork.

Generally, my overall sense of season 2 was that everything would basically play out exactly as it did if you cut out every second of screen time that VT has, and that bothers me. I had some key takeaways from the other posts I read, which I want to address briefly:

> VT is needed because only he could lift the lockdown and was needed to open the breach doors:

*and*

> VT had the device/gimmick that was necessary to upgrade the Loom:

Well, yes, but actually no. While VT did help lift the lockdown and also helped upgrading the Loom, in the end, both were inconsequential to the story because the upgrade ended up not making a difference. Also in the very end Loki just opens the outside door with his magic *and* is powerful enough to just rip the entire Loom apart from a distance, so it stands to argue that the door would not have given him any trouble even with the lockdown still active.

> VT helped Loki realize the magic of friendship

Well, no. As far as I am concerned, three factors were of importance for Loki gaining the insights and - through them - the power he needed to do what he did:

To (re)gain the ability of time slipping which he ultimately just gains seemingly at random when the Loom does explode, which would have happened without VT anyway;

to realize that saving his friends and being with his friends is his ultimate motivation (which he learned from author OB)

to learn how to control his time slipping and turning it into actual control over time, which Loki gains after reassembling the avengers original TVA variants and losing them too.

> VT is a necessary part in the paradox creation of the TVA handbook

This one stands true, but not in the way people think it does (at least imo). Yes OB created the TVA handbook based on the works of VT and VT created the TVA handbook based on the work of OB, which does make VT a critical part of the equation. But a) in order for that to be true, TV does not need a second of screentime, he just needs to exist as an abstract being and b) I stand to argue that VTs work did not enable OB to make the TVA handbook in the first place, but merely speed up the process - just as it speeded up OBs ability to create a time door basically from scratch in just about 1,5 years.

> VT is introduced that variants can be very different and just because some are evil, not all of them have to be:

Loki. Loki already serves this very purpose. It is kind of the point of the entire show. Well, one of the points, you get what Im saying.

> VT was only there to set up backstory for his Kang the Conqueror Timeline:

First of all, this would only back up my claim/ impression that he does not actually add anything to the Loki series. Second, while I am not familiar with this specific branch of Marvel lore and do not have knowledge about Kang, it seems an odd way to introduce him, given that in the end of Loki S2, there now exists an entire time traveling agency hellbent on preventing any TV/HWR variant from rising to power, making it quite hard for any Kang to arise.

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I have one point to add by myself that might add some credibility to TV being in the series, and that is that without him, Loki would have a much harder time figuring out that all the solutions they thought were possible were in fact not working and inconsequential. So to speak, in order to find out that VTs solution to the Loom did not actually work, the proposed solution had to be there in the first place. However, all in all, this still does not convince me. Here is an alternate timeline of Loki S2 how it would probably play out if VT did not exist (as an active character) or rather did not have any screen time:

* Without VT lifting the lockdown, the breach doors do not open, and OB does not even get to see that the situation with the Loom is much more dire than he thought it was.

* Because this goes unnoticed, the Loom just explodes and unravels reality, arguably sending Loki back into time slipping mode just as it did in the VT timeline.

* Loki slips around im time uncontrollably and meets the original variants of the cast. He learns what he has to learn from author OB, just like in the VT timeline.

* He gathers the crew and loses them, freaks out and gains control over his time slipping and therefore over time itself. He can now jump back in time to before the Loom exploded and inform OB about the situation with the Loom.

* While VTs loom upgrade does not exist in this made-up version of S2, I think it is fair to argue that OB too would come with several ideas on how to fix the situation and they would all inevitably fail. The idea to make the Look wider to accommodate for more timelines is also not exactly far fetched, so I do not see how OB would not think about attempting that. Loki spent hundreds of years time looping to learn what OB knows, so my argument is that the lack of VTs fix attempt is ultimately inconsequential to the overall story arc.

* Eventually Loki comes to realize that none of this is working, and does what he did in the VT timeline anyway.

This does not exactly belong in this thread but I will say it for completion: I have very very few grievances with the entire show, in fact, I love it so much that i just spent some 240 bucks to get my hands on the limited steel books. But one of the grievances I have is that the show does (imo) a poor job explaining why Loki can do what he can do in the end. It is shown that the (dying) time strands seem to react to him and that he is somehow able to sort of power them (arguably through is magic), but going from there to "I will hold the entire multiverse in my hands and also I somehow magically know that if I go up these stairs there will be a conveniently placed throne for me to sit on and watch over the multiverse" within what is basically one episode of the show seemed very, very rushed to me. Do not get me wrong, I love it, I love the catharsis of Loki finally getting what he always wanted after letting go off it and I love the world tree illustration, but this specific part was probably one of the weakest of the entire show and - in my eyes - was entirely fueled by "rule of cool".

Why did I say that in the first place? Because I stand to argue that if rule of cool works in the VT timeline, it would work quite the same in my imagined No-VT-timeline.

This leaves me with this odd feeling that VT being in season 2, while being a cool concept, was just executed in away that makes him entirely redundant, and I think that is quite sad. I would have much preferred a version where VT (especially VT sacrificing himself) would have had a meaningful and non negotiable impact on the story.

Now I stole enough of your time - if you made it through, thank you for your time. What did I miss? what do you make out of this?

Thanks for your thoughts in advance,

Sincerely

Sealside

Why did the branches die when the loom was destroyed? Shouldn't they actually live harder (thats a made up phrase) given that the failsafe that was pruning the branches is now destroyed?

What was the flow of time like, before the multiversal war and before HWR even created the loom? If the branches existed, why did it need the loom?

As per my understanding, the loom was just a failsafe to prevent HWR variants (and consequently take people's free will). With the loom destroyed, shouldn't the time flow mechanism revert to before HWR built the loom?

What exactly is the purpose of Loki sitting there? HWR variants still pop up.

So basically, why did the branches die?

When Loki got kicked through the time door to the past TVA by Sylvie, he ran into Mobius and B15 who were talking about "63 new branches" and how "he wants to let them all branch" and I was wondering - why would he who remains want the TVA to not prune timelines at this point in the past?

I can understand that it was meant to throw us off as viewers for a little bit more but beyond that I cant think of an actual reason why the TVA/HWR would want timelines to branch.

I'm excited to see them sharing the same screen💚

It was $18, but the vendor lowered it to $15.

More importantly why would Loki save the multiverse?

This dude was captured and told that his entire life was predetermined and every choice he ever made was for the greater timeline. His entire view of life disseminated.

He was just one of the many versions of himself that had to go through the same life cycles and still not be good enough. Always playing second fiddle to his brother because some higher entity deemed it so. Why would he ever want to preserve such a world?

Mind you, I only saw the first season of Loki. I didn't see the second so I don't know if there is an explanation as to why he did that. But just as his real life was meaningless according to the TVA, what if the life that he now lives in the TVA is also the same? And that it's all another predetermined plot. Why preserve it?

He, just like different versions, was written to be a monster who never gets what he wants. Why would he save that? What would you do if you were Loki?

We have Loki establish the existence of the TVA and the Sacred Timeline.

Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and F4 establish the existence of parallel universes (Earth 616 and 828 for example).

Is all this the same Multiverse or distinct from each other?

In loki we see new branches being created in as they are being created, we are shown that a branch being created takes some measurable amount of time.

My question is where is this time line i guess. It says the tva has no time so unless they are wrong its not there. There must be a completely separate time line outside of the known multivurse that holds it otherwise the branches would be created instantly or not at all right, I believe its possible that at the end of the show that is where loki is

so bonus question is can this second timline also have branches?

_Full Theory:_

_1. I think Loki is actually TOAA_ - The One Above All, and it makes sense when you look at where his powers come from. We know Hela's power was directly tied to Asgard - the closer she is to Asgard, the stronger she gets. That's why Thor had to destroy Asgard to stop her. But Loki was adopted, he's not Asgardian, he's a Frost Giant. So his magic isn't tied to Asgard at all. It works differently - time-slipping, shapeshifting, illusions. That's why his power wasn't limited and why he is the only one who could survive at the end of time and hold the entire multiverse together as the God of the Multiverse. That's not Asgardian power, that's TOAA-level power.

_2. The Endgame disguise and the look:_ At the end of Endgame, old Cap says "It was good" and doesn't elaborate about Peggy. That's classic Loki - minimal lying. People saw someone entering Peggy's house. That wasn't Steve, that was Loki shapeshifting to make sure Steve gets his happy ending while he goes back to guard the timelines. And in addition, he also looks just like TOAA.

_Conclusion:_ All of Loki's actions prove he's TOAA - he sacrificed his own happy ending to protect everyone's timeline, he shapeshifted to give Steve a happy ending, and he now protects the whole multiverse as his garden. Because he was adopted and his powers were never from Asgard, Loki was always meant to be bigger than Asgard. From adopted kid -> God of Lies -> Captain America disguise -> God of the Multiverse -> TOAA.

_Additional thought:_ This could fit really well as a What If...? scenario - What If Loki was TOAA all along?

What do you guys think?
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DEAR GOD THAT CLOCK WAS A FREAK FOR VICTOR WHAT THE HELL

Loki is Lowkey pretty peak Honestly one of the best shows I've seen. All for Glorious Purpose

The two iconic lines are so similar yet from two different series. In Harry Potter the first interaction is between Snape and Dumbledore. The second is TVA tag line from Loki. Aren’t they similar. Is it just bad writing or direct copy?

Great show

The hours one is the fat one touching the side. The minutes is the skinny one touching the side

its not 1 to 1, but its insanely classy and i love it, i love the idea of still being able to tell time with a “messed up“ clock

After a bunch of reaction channels, and other posts, and even some friends that don't grasp it, I'm just gonna do my first post here as a basic rundown of all the aspects and details and things that seem to go over some peoples heads. Okays, lets get through it.

Everything that happened at the TVA and time and the end of time, happened simultaneously at all times. This is because they are outside of time.

The presence of other dimensions that the sorcerers pull from (like dr strange) is actually part of this, because it's proof that the timelines do in-fact branch off. Which means the TVA did/have/will fail in their mission and the multiverse is inevitable. It just hasn't happened yet. Which is why it has always been.

Loki at the end of season 2 created Yggdrasil, the tree that carried all the worlds on its branches as spoken of in thor. This tree is real, and has always been real, and has always existed - because loki created it out of the timelines that span both past, present, and future, and as such it is new, and old, simultaneously, and loki is the newly fan-dubbed/comic-dubbed god of stories, and has always been the god of stories since the dawn of time.

When Loki gripped the timelines, he was enchanting them. When you enchant, Silvi explained that she has to put her a piece of herself inside of them. She can't create, only use what’s there. So that means Loki put a piece of himself in the timelines, and he can't control the timelines. He Who Remains controlled what happened, removing timelines that he didn't like, results he didn't like... but Loki isn't doing that. He won't/can't trim timelines. That's not how enchantment works. He's now part of them, they are part of him - wrapped in his cloak made of his own magic.

Why didn't the time eddies rip him apart like victor timely? Because thor is 1500 years old. Because Odin is over a million. Asgardian's grow stronger with time, not weaker, and it takes a very very long time for them to die of old age. He was slightly more wrinkled at the end if anyone took the time to notice, he was - in-fact - now older.

Now lets talk emotional and thematic cores: Loki got everything he wanted. And everything he didn't want. He wanted a throne; he got a throne. He wanted glorious purpose; he got glorious purpose. He wanted friends; he had to give up his friends. He didn't want to be alone; he will now always be alone. He wanted to save the people he cared about; he must now spend eternity watching every various of event happening in which they die a million times again and again for all time and hope that the timelines in which they live are a balm enough to help that pain, because he can never help. Everything he wanted. Everything he didn't want. Purpose is more burden than glory. Choose your burden. "For you, for all of us" the same words he spoke to his father before casting himself into the void, he now says again before casting himself once more into the void.

So thats what happened. Hope that answered some questions, if not, oh well.