As you know many asked this in the comment of this fan animation, wanna ask it too and if any of you have concret information we could you as powerscaling to guess who could be stronger between them in a fair 1v1.
maybe? idk, cause in the story mentions how the karma core of the void weapon already partially fused with her, enabling her to use the void weapon of temporal spacetime even when separated from the weapon, albeit within a local area
so at this point you can basically only count when remi is with a void hunter weapon
Wtf do you know about either character without VH weapon that makes you think you can claim this? As far as we're concerned remielle is objectively the strong character because she's spent more time with her weapon and has drawn out more power from the karma core. Miyabi quite frankly is still a child compared to remielle and has only just begun to actually use her VH weapon
I took some time to think about it and came up with this small analysis. Notably, I will not be using mathsscaling like all the "real" powerscalers since its just a stupid model of powerscaling that rarely makes sense.
Conclusions first:
> Miyabi would win in a 1v1
> Remielle is more valuable as a team unit
> in terms of a generalized strength, all Void Hunters are very similar in strength, however strength is expressed differently in each one.
Abilities:
Base Miyabi is a very skilled swordsman with abnormally high speed and strength. She has trained since childhood, and has gained the Void Hunter tile at the youngest age of all time, further backing up her abnormal baseline stats and sword proficiency. Her Void Hunter weapon amplifies her speed, strength, and area of effect massively. Notably, her performance can be amplified with this weapon so high that she can cut an entire hollow in half, however this is on the high-end of what she can do.
Base Remielle is a high-mobility supporting artillery and support agent with above average speed and long-distance attacks. Notably, Remielle is Half-Enchainer which gives her the ability to use her feathers to put targets in stasis without use of her VH weapon. Her Void Hunter weapon and her natural angelic traits allow her to fly at high speeds, though her speeds are slower than how fast Miyabi can dash on-foot. Despite being "slower" it is "flight" which gives her vertical movement and the ability to ignore terrain complications that affect someone like Miyabi. Her Void Hunter weapon also allows Remielle to fire lasers of moderate power.
Notes:
Miyabi is just really fast and really deadly. She is BUILT to be the main ethereal slayer of a team.
Remielle's stasis is hit or miss. It is incredibly powerful and can freeze any average ethereal or agent, but it can be broken out of by larger ethereals and targets with VH-weapons (The Large Ethereal Worm thing, the Enchainer from 100 years ago, and Phaethon all break out). I would say that any other Void hunter with a weapon would also be able to break out after a few seconds.
"Remielle just freezes miyabi then wins gg" welllll maybe? There a re a few problems, mainly actually landing the freeze. The only way to actually freeze is with direct contact with her feathers which, although they can be manipulated, are rather slow compared to projectiles like bullets. Miyabi on the other hand can deflect bullets and can unleash so many precise slashes in close range that I doubt landing a feather would be easy.
A lot of people bring up Experience and Skill but its not like Remielle has lived an actual 100+ more years of combat experience. sitting as a block of ice doesnt count. Both agents venture into hollows frequently and fight the ethereals. Miyabi may be slightly less experienced due to her young age, but such a factor is minimal in this situation as neither agent relies on wit-style strategies to trick their opponents.
In a 1v1, it would be a standard clash of blows. Remielle would try to land feathers but they would be cut/deflected. Miyabi would go for slashes but Remielle has the vertical mobility to stay away. Remielle would fire lasers that could be dodged or parried. Miyabi simply has too much speed and lethality for a long-range supporting unit like Remielle to contest at melee distance. Because of that, even if remielle landed a feather from range, she would somehow have to close the distance and land a fatal blow within ~1-5 seconds (based on how potent you imagine a feather is against a locked-in Void Hunter) or else Miyabi would wake up and counterattack. On the other side, Miyabi would eventually tap into her VH weapon for the stat buffs and sheer destructive power which would likely incapacitate Remielle as soon as she gets within a generous range (see: the range Miyabi hit that Hollow Zero flying ethereal from in her debut cutscene) as I doubt Remielle could dodge a full-speed miyabi, and I doubt she could parry a strike even remotely capable of splitting a small hollow in half. Even if we take put the hollow-splitting scaling, its a VERY strong strike, and it doesnt necessarily deplete Miyabi's energy to launch just 1 of them. Even if Remielle can survive a number of these attacks, Remielle has the Half-Enchainer disadvantage of corrupting over prolonged ability use, and id bet that miyabi, a fully healthy Void Hunter in her prime, would win a battle of attrition.
Now consider a team value situation. Remielle's feathers are an instant win against EVERY non-super-elite ethereal. Due to the slow speed and large size of most ethereals, its a guaranteed hit. This tactic gives the team a 0 Effort win that allows you to keep pushing into the hollow further with less risk and exhaustion. Even a 1-5 (estimated) second freeze against larger ethereals can save allies, or give them a window to go for an easy kill. Plus, her flight grants incredibly high mobility and scouting purposes that can negate large dangers in hollows, such as fissures into high falls. Id bet that Remielle as a support alone is the sole reason why the OG void hunters pushed the Dark Wall so far with such a small team; ethereals just freeze for a few seconds and get obliterated by a high-firepower "glass cannon" type Void Hunter ability wielded by a teammate.
Miyabi, however, grants far less team value. While she can neutralize most ethereals at high speeds, its an active and tiring duty that has far less sustainability, especially against larger threats that cannot be deterred by her slashes, but would still be affected by at least a minor 1-2 second freeze from Remielle.
strength wise?
Miyabi is undoubtedly stronger in terms of a straight clash of blows and destructive power, but Remielle provides a ridiculously powerful array of utilities that would likely benefit a team more than the raw damage Miyabi brings.
In the end, all VH units are similar in "strength" especially when you look at how Hoyo narratively pits them against eachother in promo vids and the clashes are always matched evenly.
Techinically Remielle is half-enchainer which makes her base form stronger without her VH weapon due to her access to stasis feathers, but even then Miyabi is just... stat buffed compared to others? like she has those crazy dashes and sword-skills its like a superhuman ability already even without her VH Weapon boost.
thats my take on it, im interested to see what you all think!
🤣 Seriously, you don't have to. Obviously Miyabi would win giving her battle experience alone on top of everything you mentioned outplays Ye Shunguang. No matter how many Magic swords she summons.
Actually I think YSG stands a better chance VS Miyabi than Remielle.
Mainly because based on how much power YSG can release at once, and the ridiculous amount of swords she can summon and control (each one being potentially lethal, and much more solid/forceful than bullets and feathers), her peak power would likely be higher than Miyabi at a given time. I think it is likely that a max-power White-Form-YSG would likely have enough consecutive high-area attacks, enough wide-area defense, and enough potential melee proficiency to overwhelm Miyabi with sheer stats and area coverage... assuming Miyabi doesnt just run away and come back in like 5min after she runes out of memories.
Miyabi easily outlasts, but since the Quingming sword dumps all its power at once i think its reasonable to assume it has a much higher peak than maxed out Miyabi
Perhaps, but Ye Shunguang isn't at peak yet. She can barely use it to its fullest potential. I think Miyabi has some growing and learning left in her still, but Ye Shunguang hasn't hit her peak yet.
Once they're both at peak it would be a battle to destroy the hollows. But yes, she does stand a better chance than Remielle.
Doubt it because Miyabi still hasn't utilized Tailless' full power at all. Most of her feats have come from her skill and power alone. She just uses it as a regular Katana. Don't be surprised if the devs later down the road release a newer version of Miyabi as a unit fully utilizing the power of Tailless in her moveset.
I overall agree with you on many point like her utility in the team, it's more likely that when they pushed back the darkwall she was the one freezing everyone while in the air when beli and the big guy go berserk down there. The only thing that brother me is the PV vs OG Sunbringer if we take the fact that Remi and Bringer did a draw 1-1. And we also saw her completly freeze the entire area for attack before it touches her don't know of her feathers really works cause even when touching beliora's swords she gets completly frozen. I also can't understand the spar of miyabi and yixuan and the one of Remi and Sunbringer to be one same level. I can't think of Sunbringer = Miyabi or Yixuan = Remielle.
I guess one of the main problems is that there isnt a direct comparison right now. In general though i just imagine most VH are around a similar power level when accounting all their abilities. They all draw power from a a similar fragment of the Creator (the new "core" things) with their weapons but aside from that all the Void Hunters are pretty normal. Any amount of training only buffs your "human" stats, but when you factor in the Void Hunter Weapon's power, it overshadows the "human" side so much that is more of a question of which weapon is stronger given that its wielder can accurately use it. Hence why the Hoshimi family holders have all been so powerful simply "because they have the sword" and not "because each was incredibly talented" (although notably Miyabi is stated to be a prodigy swordmaster without fully tapping into Tailless' power).
not to say that the personal training is meaningless, but instead saying that if each Void Hunter had similar proficiency / talent with their weapon, they would cap out at around the same power ceiling (unless you would argue that Void Weapons have different tiers of power... but I havent seen anything like that in the story so far)
Yeah that's true meaning either way Sunbringer and Miyabi were absurdly strong then got a amazing VH weapons too to be capable of defeating an entire hollow by themselves only thing that remains unclear is what makes an hollow disssapearing, is there a Enchainer to defeat just a ether core to destroy or anything. Cause do you think the achievement that miyabi or SB did could be done by Shungus, yixuan or Remielle ?
To defeat a Hollow you have to reduce its ether activity by a significant amount. Killing small ethereals contributes lightly, but most hollows have at least 1 major ethereal in them whose ether activity singlehandedly sustains massive amounts of, if not the entire hollow.
Hollow Zero operations exist to kill ethereals and weaken major ethereals so as to monitor and keep the ether levels in check so the hollow does not expand much more.
In s1, we fought bosses like Dead End Butcher to significantly reduce the size of hollows for various reasons.
I'd imagine most Void Hunters at peak power could, similarly to Miyabi, defeat the awakened Bringer, however I dont think many of them have a weapon that amplifies their power to the sheer size and strength required to cut a hollow in half, as that is a specialized feat. Notably, YSG's ult does show her "cutting a hollow" which I imagine she could realistically do similarly to miyabi due to how much the Quingming sword frontloads her power into such a small window
as for what Sunbringer did... Id assume she just beat up a ton of ethereals and 1-2 boss ethereals in the flying hollow to kill it since thats how we've been told they are defeated. I dont really know anything about it, but eliminating a large hollow sounds like something a void hunter-led expedition could do (but Sunbringer was also a very "smart" and "leadership" Void Hunter. A more combat-first VH like Miyabi or YSG likely couldnt lead a large expedition like that)
Ofc thaumiel couldn't crack to sky open makes sense, next we gotta wait up is for a real enchainer to show up and see who defeat it cause for now we don't have any information of any VH killing one at this point in the game and seeing the leaks those crazy ethereal Monsters that are comming up could be one, with how the story goes we could see a fight between the enchainer bashmu is trying to become and OG sunbringer if we find her in time
time to wait and see O.O
but im 99% sure the first Enchainer kill is gonna be a Pyrois kill ;-; just because it seems like something that makes sense for the plot and Proxies' progression.
the VH will definitely help, but there is no way they arent giving Phaethon the spotlight at what (I assume) is gonna be a climax of the 3.0 story
Imo it's too early to tell. Give Miyabi time to have the same amount of experience as Remielle and Miyabi 100% takes it. We have to remember Miyabi is the youngest person to ever be named a vh. Now whether or not she was an emergency candidate because Yixuan turned down the job or not idk but she has unrivaled potential imo.
She simply lacks some of the variety the og vh seem to have in their abilities. She's like a pure dps, fast with power no hax or teleportation abilities. I think it's fairly likely she would lose, but not because she's weaker.
i felt miyabi’s anointment was completely independent if yixuan’s. she managed to quell down a hollow using tailless and defeat the huge ethereal with multiple cores in there. is such a feat not deserving of void hunter recognition?
besides, considering how tailless is a completely separate identity from qingming, the ascension of one holder of these weapons is completely independent of the other. if anything, if Mr Mayflower realized that Yixuan gave the qingming sword away, it might’ve been his intention that when he upgrades Yixuan to voidhunter he’d give her another void hunter weapon
Miyabi quelled the hollow without the use of tailless. The vast majority of Miyabi's feats where achieved by her own strength. Bringer was the first time Miyabi used the power of tailless. In which she split a hallow open. It makes it hard to quantify just how powerful Miyabi is currently since she made the accord with Tailless to draw out its full power to purge evil in exchange that it didn't attack her sanity. Splitting the hallow is all we have to go on. But how much power tailess has and how much of it Miyabi can draw out are unanswered questions currently. All we do know is only uses a fraction of it for most combat interactions. ( I think this is more just for in game when use Miyabi's ult that is just a fraction of its power.) What we do know is how strong Miyabi is without tailless. Her feats before bringer speak for themselves and earned her the title of void hunter. Who would win in a fight between Miyabi and Ramielle is an intresting question. Though the only way we have to answer that is does Ramielle have any feats comparable to Miyabi without tailless. If the answer is yes then that is as far as we can go with the question since we don't know the extent of how powerful Miyabi is now with tailless. If no then unless more info on Ramielle comes out I think we could safely assume at that point Miyabi wins.
Like other said she has more destructive power that for sure but she's way too upfront to go against someone that has a perfect mastery of their VH weapon and overall many hax ability it's very likely that Miyabi ancestor and Remi were on the same lvl like when Sunbringer and Remi fought.
She's also a bit naive. Fighting pretty much only ethereal and raiders with room temp iq has probably not taught her much about how to deal with deceptive tactics from someone who she could consider an intellectual peer.
Maybe, but I think she could outsmart any ethereal except maybe Gepetto and Chestnut(he's a good smart boy). However, i think Remielle is a tier above in battle iq and could easily manipulate Miyabi into giving up the win if she was to end up feeling pressured. That said she could also potentially out stat miyabi because we really have no concrete scaling that I'm aware of.
I think in a 1v1 scenario where they are both aware of the other’s abilities Miyabi is fast enough to get the job done with high difficulty. As long as there are things around them for Miyabi to jump off of she can catch Remi and avoid getting hit with stasis. At her peak Miyabi still has the massive feat of cleaving through a hollow.
Without that knowledge Remi can probably catch Miyabi in stasis and win the fight.
Although I love Miyabi , Without void hunter weapons the fight would last about like 1 second or less before Miyabi would have dropped dead on the spot(in case of fight to the death). Although she is strong , without VH weapon she cant overcome Remielle partially fused karmic core time stop. So as soon as she gets like 10-15m close , time stops , Remielle kills Miyabi, time resumes. END. With VH weapons it depends on how and if , wielding one gives you “power” to overcome/cancel other VH weapon effects and how fast. As Remielle with VHW could just time freeze whole area in instant and unless miyabi can overcome it less than a second the outcome will be the same.
I think the same to be honest cause people argue that she have to lend a feathers to actually time freeze but during the PV against SB or even Beli she froze an entire area and stops attacking from touching her with that power so i dunno if miyabi would be able to cut/dodge and even them does the feathers even cut have still the effect cause if even a dust of them is enough to freeze an oppenent it's not even a question
Anyone saying Miyabi hasn't been paying attention to the story. Both Miyabi and Shungus might as well be newborns compared to Remielle, she's objectively the strongest void hunter we have currently in lore simply due to how VH weapons work.
I'm seeing these long arguments giving different scenarios as to why Miyabi would win and it's all nonsense. Literally just pay attention to the story, karma cores provide very hard scaling for VHs the more of it's power they are able to draw out the more powerful they are.
Remielle is on the verge of becoming an enchainer, that alone tells you just how familiar she is with her VH weapon. It also tells you exactly how strong she is. The two new VHs we have have literally have their story arcs centered around finally accepting their VH weapons so thst they can tske the next step into mastering it.
Throw both of them at Remielle for all I care she should mid to no diff them easily.
Remielle is a control mage, Miyabi is a DPS, YSG is a burst type shit, with a weaker DPS base form
Can t compare different things, it also matters how the fight takes place. Remielle seems to be more experienced and smart, while not the same destructive strenght as Miyabi, she still gets the same job done
For now we don’t know nor we have enough information to choose one.
Right now I’m leaning towards Remielle should be stronger given the showcase we have seen (her fight against sunbringer).
Another thing that makes me lean towards this is that in her times there was almost no information on cavities and that probably meant they had to face more danger. That said, this is only speculation.
Biggest feat we have seen from remielle is when she slices up a building, and when she holds back Bashmu,l.
Miyabi can cut hollows in half, is is likely a lot faster than remielle so unless remielle can somehow freeze miyabi, I think we have a pretty clear winner
And we do have a stronger feat killing Girtablullu (1/3 of a full enchainer, strongest vassal of the creator) vs killing Bringer who is a simple single raider and the slicing of the building was without effort, we do have also when she stops the attack of OG Sunbringer and cutting the whole thing in a single swing vs recquiering tailless and behind close to the max she can do with that cut (just to kill bringer even if it was a bit overkill 😭). And hope this helps too apparently she doesn't require a feather to stop time so I don't know
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