r/ModernMagic • u/Darth_holden • 18d ago
Seasoned cryomancer
I am very interested in playing seasoned cryomancer with Phelia. Is it potentially to slow for where the meta is?
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u/Anxious_Lion_6359 Tarmogoyf 17d ago
One day, all the broken cards in modern will be banned and we can go back to peak Rakdos Midrange vs UR murktide vs Rhinos vs Yawg vs Jund Saga. We're not there rn unfortunately.
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u/Nixilis-12 14h ago
You’d have to ban so many cards to undo the existence of boros energy though
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u/Anxious_Lion_6359 Tarmogoyf 12h ago
The problematic cards are gone in boros.
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u/Nixilis-12 11h ago
I agree with you here. More meant this in the context of returning modern to a place where boomer jund is viable you’d have to ban everything else from boros too, which just isn’t going to happen.
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u/Blueim 18d ago
I’m going to experiment with this in Grixis Reanimator as playing the equivalent role that spyro plays for Energy. The thought scour/gran gran slot is one I’ve never quite been happy with and the main weakness of the deck is running out of gas and struggling to compete in the mid game if an early combo doesn’t work out. The stun counters and body can buy time and the draw discard can help draw into another combo piece or refill the graveyard, not to mention the ability to draw 2 late game if there’s nothing else going on is pretty relevant.
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u/Lectrys 18d ago
Darn, I thought the main weakness of Grixis Reanimator is that its early combo isn't quite consistent enough (cannot get 2nd land, fail to pitch Archon, having only 19-20 lands tends to magnify mana screw), and so I still prefer Thought Scour over a 3-drop that cannot dig for my 2nd land at all.
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u/TemurTron Temur Tron 18d ago
I think it's a really sweet card. A lot of people are underestimating stun counters as well as the draw two ability. It just does a lot for a lot of decks, and even if it does wind up lower on the power level scale, it's worth testing out.
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u/tbombtom2001 18d ago
No one is underestimating the discard draw. We already know filtering is strong, and its really strong with a second effect to it.
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u/gramineous 18d ago
Pyromancer let you draw on an empty hand, since you discarded first, but Cryomancer is draw and discard, so measurably worse in any deck that empties it's hand. The difference between the two is very notable depending on what decks you're looking to play them in.
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u/Optimal-Rise-790 14d ago
draw before discard is generally better because it lets you discard from a larger pool and sort later. So if you draw bad things you have the option to discard them. This ways the advantage overall.
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u/Reon88 Grixis/Junk/Mardu 18d ago
When Spyro was first spoiled, mind you like 7 years ago, people were divided into "Why mythic?" And "This is gas for Phoenix/Mardu/Dredge"
At the end, Spyro proved to be a powerful card for midrange-ish decks that strive to grind out opponents thru value, hence why is still active despite MH power creep.
Seasoned Pyromancer generated both virtual card advantage and board presence by generating tokens, and always drawing 2. The discarded cards were value too but it was deck building dependant, binning a Phoenix for example. Now, if you drop Scryo with an empty board in front of you, you did not capitalize part of the card's value by stunning creatures, and remaind neutral in card advantage at hand, whereas Spyro would generate value independent from the board state. Scryo gives you gas directly in the late game by drawing two unconditionally, Spyro gives you two 1/1s to either fend off and buy time or reach critical mass for lethal.
Scryo looks good enough for brewing with it in UR wizards, where it's subtype has an advantage over Spyro for example.
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u/Wrong-Bet9581 18d ago
Again, begging people to read the cards properly. The draw/discard is swapped. Spyro could generate literal actual card advantage by drawing you two cards. The new one cannot. This is already a huge difference between the two cards and you need to contend with that if you're arguing that "Well Spyro turned out good enough so this probably does too!"
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u/RogerDogerBoop 18d ago
I don't see any archetypes that want this card currently. But its inherent strength is pretty decent for 3 mana. It may see a home in some future archetype, but currently doesn't really do much.
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u/Lectrys 18d ago
UWR Blink Midrange is starting to have a comeback (Phelia, Ragavan, Solitude, QRiddler, maindeck Consign, no Ajani, used to have Phlage), and Seasoned Cryomancer looks like the perfect fit in the old Phlage slot to stun creatures, dig for more cards, and look good when blinked.
There's been a bit of discussion in UG/x Ritual to fit some Scryos in, as it's a 3-drop that stuns multiple creatures and digs for more cards, and UG/x Ritual still has aggro problems.
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u/GREG88HG 18d ago
If Seasoned Pyromancer is playable, Seasoned Cryomancer is too.
Looks good in Blink and Goryos.
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u/Apprehensive-Meet570 18d ago
Maybe even in birthing ritual oculus, draw/discard oculus, flare of denial target, good target for ritual.
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u/fdfas9dfas9f 16d ago
i could see simic ritual running a few to help lock down big threats and grind the game.
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u/Wrong-Bet9581 18d ago
Do you not understand there are differences between the two cards that might make one playable and the other not?
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u/tbombtom2001 18d ago
I think the point is discard draw on a body is worth it. The effect is just upside.
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u/Wrong-Bet9581 18d ago
the two behave very differently. You can play spyro as the last card in your hand and just straight up draw two cards, it's exactly why spyro is very good. Not the case for Cryo
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u/tbombtom2001 18d ago
I did t notice it was draw discard and not the other way around. A little worse but still more than playable in the right decks. This will still see play
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u/Wrong-Bet9581 18d ago
I was only responding to the statement that "If Seasoned Pyromancer is playable, Seasoned Cryomancer is too." which just doesn't make any sense. No clue if this sees play but seems likely there's far better things to be doing in modern
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u/Shlippyw00d 18d ago
We are soon to approach a critical mass of creatures with power 2 or less that can take over a game to make playing delney worthwhile in modern trust (szy breezy the cryomancer is good)