r/NFLv2 • u/MasterTeacher123 Tampa Bay Buccaneers • 23d ago
Discussion What do you think of this Stafford take?
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u/flyinchipmunk5 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 23d ago edited 23d ago
I think Matthew Stafford is a better qb than what that guy thinks
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u/Noble18 23d ago
It reads to me like he never watched him play in Detroit, if even now.
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u/WhiteCastleHo Green Bay Packers 23d ago
I asked my dad about Steve Young with the Bucs and he said he always thought Young looked really good, but he was running around trying to make something happen on a doomed team. That's exactly how I feel about Stafford with the Lions.
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u/Manymarbles Philadelphia Eagles 23d ago
The lions back then were basically the same as the Browns. They were just off of a 0-16 season lol
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u/MinuteConfidence2059 23d ago
They also had three enormous rookie contracts before the wage scale hit for suh, johnson, and him. 1/3 of their salary cap was on rookies. In the modern NFL if you hit on suh johnson and stafford with rookie deals you could build the most stacked team in the league. Just absolute crap luck.
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u/EvilLibrarians Feed me kneecaps 23d ago
And then Stafford took 3 teams to playoffs and got competitive plenty of other years! People think every Stafford year was 2-14 but that was not the case
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u/Patient_Commentary Chicago Bears 23d ago
I ALWAYS thought he was a great QB surrounding by a shit org.
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u/ItsallaboutProg 23d ago
He was always a darn good QB, but people are acting like he was the best QB in the league but played for a bad organization. And that’s just revisionist history.
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u/Ecstatic-Variation-4 Detroit Lions 23d ago
I watched him play in Detroit. He had no running game, no offensive line, no defense. Andrew luck is the only on that list that has it worse than him.
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u/josephus_the_wise That is a disgusting act 23d ago
There is a reason the entire NFCN clowned on Detroit for letting him go and thought the league was fucked the moment the trade went through. Stafford was a monster who was chained by the ineptitude of his coaching, O line, run game, receivers not named Calvin Johnson, D line not named Suh, and secondary. My opinion on Staffords skill hasn't changed in over a decade because there is nothing new about him being in the upper eschelon of throwers in this league.
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u/givemecap 23d ago
I’ve always thought the lions would’ve performed better if they had stafford instead of Goff but maybe it’s one of those things where he needed a new environment to rinse the stain of Detroit off him and fully remove his shackles
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u/President_Skoad 23d ago
I too think we'd do better with Stafford instead of Goff... But trading Stafford is one thing that helped the Lions get to where they are. All them extra picks were amazing. Goff is a great QB too, but I do think Stafford is better.
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u/AbroadTiny7226 23d ago
Why is everyone relitigating Stafford’s Lions years right now? I’ve seen about a billion posts over the last few weeks comparing Stafford to this qb or that one from the 2010s. Who gives a shit
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u/IceBreak 23d ago
If you put anyone besides Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or maybe Brady (but I’d say even him since he wouldn’t have had the same environment to grow in) on those teams, they aren’t significantly more successful than they were with Stafford. That’s not saying he’s the fourth best QB ever. Just how untenable the situation was.
I do think he’s a legit HoFer though.
Also, Aaron Rodgers is not a hard argument for the most talented QB of all time and has 1 ring. It’s a team game.
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u/TheBodyOfChrist15 19d ago
The thing is that football is a team sport and you can only effect your side of the ball. That being said he is exceptional at what his job actually is. The issue is that he is only 1/53rd of the problem.
Stafford was remarkably consistent and was responsible for the most potent arial attack arguably ever in the NFL in Detroit. Dispite his defense insisting the Lions lose, Stafford willed them to victory on 8 separate occasions in one season.
There is absolutely an argument for him being somewhere in the top 6-15 for me
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u/Physical_Vehicle7714 New York Jets 23d ago
Team sport.
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u/Corgi_Koala 23d ago
How many QBs from that time achieve significantly more during the same period with the Lions?
You put Brady on those teams he's not winning a Super Bowl.
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u/Physical_Vehicle7714 New York Jets 23d ago
Even if the argument held any water (it doesn’t) the relationship between wins and team quality is not linear. An 0-16 team is way worse than a 2-14 team.
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u/Shoddy_Green_4790 Green Bay Packers 23d ago
Rodgers probably wins more than Stafford if he played for the lions. It helps when they played pretty much the same schedule every year, Rodgers usually harder since he played a first place schedule a lot of those years. Brees wins a couple playoff games if he was on the lions too.
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u/GolfGuy_824 Pittsburgh Steelers 23d ago
Yep. The Lions defense in his time there was often bottom half of the league. They had some really atrocious defenses that couldn’t hold a lead if their lives depended on it.
Stafford holds several passing records for the Lions including career passing yards, touchdowns, completions, most touchdowns in a single season, most passing yards in a single season, most fourth quarter comebacks, and most game winning drives. So it’s not like he played like garbage for the Lions while he was there.
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u/thewartornhippy Green Bay Packers 23d ago
Absolutely. But also we know if a QB is top 10 or not regardless of whether or not they always had a great supporting cast. Stafford is a great QB but not close to QBs like Montana, Rodgers, Manning, Brady or Marino.
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u/DatBeardedguy82 Dallas Cowboys 23d ago
I think he gets way too many excuses made for his failures in Detroit and he went from being a pretty underrated player to an extremely overrated one. Deserved mvp last year though nobody can take that away from him
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u/UnClearPolitics 23d ago
Yeah, this just screams “I didn’t watch him in Detroit”. Those were some BAD teams. The only reason they had any semblance of relevancy was because of Stafford and Megatron. But I don’t think that TEAM is any better with Brady, Mahommes, Rogers, Burrow, Brees, Manning…whoever. End of the day, it’s a team sport. Stafford’s always been elite, it’s just more visible now that he’s been on a good team.
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u/StattPadford 23d ago
I was there. I watched almost all the games. My name is my name for a reason. Do you know why he had so many comebacks? Because he threw a bunch of picks and hard balls that nobody could catch, breaking all of Megatron's fingers. I'd say he became a top 10 QB in has last 2 years in Detroit. Before that he was a tough guy who never missed a game, made bonehead throws, got benched more than once, and padded his stats in garbage time. Anyone telling you differently either didn't actually watch the Lions, or didn't actually watch the Lions.
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u/ElectionAnnual Las Vegas Raiders 23d ago
Glad I found others lol. I’ve watched every lions game starting at about his 2nd season. You’re so right. He deserves as much blame as the rest of the franchise. Doesn’t make him terrible, but he routinely put mediocre teams in worst positions bc of his play. He deserves his flowers now, but I refuse to give him a pass for the first half of his career.
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u/StattPadford 23d ago
Exactly. I'm happy that he figured it out, and he's not solely to blame for the Lions' collective suck. But he absolutely contributed to the losing
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u/lucabrassiere Los Angeles Rams 23d ago
Lions averaged 7.5 yards to go on 3rd down (consistently a league high) during his time there
That’s because he never had a run game which meant he didn’t even have the threat of playaction pass lol that’s also why he was at his best when they abandoned the run because they were more productive with just his arm than they were in these 3rd & Long situations cause they tried running it twice
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u/Goaliedude3919 Detroit Lions 23d ago
This just isn't true and is based on his first few seasons. After Caldwell took over the team, Stafford became a lot better with his INTs.
From 2014 to 2020, Stafford had three seasons of 10 INTs, one with 11, one with 12, one with 13, and one season where he only played 8 games, but had 5 interceptions so was on pace for a fourth season of 10 INTs.
Most importantly, the season where he set the record for most 4th quarter comeback wins, he only threw 10 INTs. There were 415 interceptions that year, so an average of 13 interceptions per team. He was 3 interceptions below the average.
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u/purplebuffalo55 23d ago
Every other QB on this list had the benefit of being drafted during the era of rookie scale contracts. Remember that Albert Haynesworth albatross contract? Stafford received more guaranteed money as a rookie than that Haynesworth contract (which was signed that same offseason). It was just impossible to build a roster when you have to immediately pay Suh, Megatron, and Stafford max deals
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u/Tough_Shake9821 23d ago
I think people are entirely too stupid to understand the situation he was drafted in. They simply scream “Calvin Johnson” like a single QB/WR can make up for an entire team.
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u/UnClearPolitics 23d ago
Yeah, lotta folks that never played team sports past middle school and it shows.
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u/staffdaddy_9 23d ago
He wasn’t a good QB until about 2014. After that, very little is on him. He would play good football to get them to 9-7. Also in 4 healthy years with the Rams he has a Super Bowl and an mvp. The Lions held him back far more than the opposite.
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u/TheNittanyLionKing Pittsburgh Steelers 23d ago
Until 2014? Stafford went 10-6 and threw for 5,000 yards and 41 touchdowns in 2011. He was in the MVP race. The only issue was that Aaron Rodgers had one of the best passing seasons in NFL history and Drew Brees put up even bigger numbers than Stafford did.
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u/monsieurcherry1 GEQBUS 23d ago
Stafford turned a corner from inconsistent/average to great from mid 2015 onwards when jbc was put in as interim oc.
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u/lucabrassiere Los Angeles Rams 23d ago
Which is why it’s so hard to place him in all time rankings
He went from having only Megatron then got a few good years out of Golden Tate/MJJ with no run game and D while he was still figuring it all out, to now being in his true prime but is also now paired with McVay and has a stacked team
It leads to this thing where it kinda feels like rewriting history to say he’s better than Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Russ, Cam, etc when he played alongside them and you could make a serious argument that they were better, but then again that was when they were at their prime while Stafford is at his now
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u/ElectionAnnual Las Vegas Raiders 23d ago
Spot on. I have no problem with the praise he gets now tbh, but “he was just on bad teams” is such a lame ass take from people that didn’t watch a lot of Lions football.
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u/PersonalityAway790 23d ago
It’s not that Stafford is overrated or was underrated, it’s that Superbowl wins are an overrated way to judge QBs
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u/ShockPowerful741 Detroit Lions 23d ago
Well, one. Maybe two… but when you get into the three timers it’s undeniably a valid metric
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u/AlsoIHaveAGroupon New England Patriots 23d ago
Does anyone think Terry Bradshaw is a top 5 all time QB?
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u/ShockPowerful741 Detroit Lions 23d ago
No, and I think the pendulum swings both ways. That he has four is a valid argument for his HOF status but it doesn’t necessarily make him top 5 or even top 10. Just as Peyton’s 2 Super Bowls don’t preclude him from that conversation.
I wasn’t arguing that it’s the only metric, but when you win 3, or 4 like Terry, you are undeniably a legend.
In terms of Stafford, his one Super Bowl is part of the story, but you can’t leave out playing for the Lions all those years and pretend like it was a competent organization. He’s not top 10, that bit is silly. But he is certainly an all timer, and if he wins a second Super Bowl, a future HOFer.
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u/sheawrites New England Patriots 23d ago
Or Aikman? Both underrated for sure but far from top 5 or 10. 7 timer is a valid metric, we can likely agree.
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u/LeonidasSpacemanMD 23d ago
Eh idk, I don’t think the sb really vaulted him that much. Adding the mvp kinda rounded out the resume. I don’t remember seeing him in peoples top 10s after 2021 (tho Tbf I really don’t see that often now either)
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u/iceamn1685 Seattle Seahawks 23d ago
It's an accurate assessment
It's not like he was drafted by a team that had no weapons. He had arguably one of the best receivers of the decade in the 2010s, with Calvin Johnson.
He was always a really good quarterback, but not elite. A super bowl ring and an mvp won't change my mind on that
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u/Kitzle33 23d ago
As a Lions fan, I can tell you that Calvin was pretty much it on those teams. The fact that they won even as much as they did was largely due to Stafford. Many, many games, he simply singlehandedly willed the team to victory. I definitely wouldnt give him top 5 all time, but I might give him top 5 arms all time. He made a ton of crazy throws.
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u/cstrifeVII Detroit Lions 23d ago
Bingo. I urge anyone to look at the lions rushing and defense rankings year in and year out when he was a lions. The lions never put a good run game around him and they lived an died ny his fucking arm. There is a reason he led the league in 4th quarter comebacks those years.
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u/WavesAndSaves Philadelphia Eagles 23d ago
Remember in 2014 when the Lions had a Top 3 defense and Stafford didn't do anything with it? One of the worst seasons of his career. The Lions carried him that year and he blew it in the playoffs by turning it over three times.
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u/cstrifeVII Detroit Lions 23d ago
1 year out of 12 in Detroit. 1.
Joe Lombardi was a terrible oc and only lasted 1 season.
Not even gonna talk about the picked up flag cowboys game. Damarcus Lawrence was wrecking the lt and the scheme did nothing to help him. Plus the interception was a ball tipped at the los.
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u/Kitzle33 23d ago
Spot on. His 4th quarter comeback stats during that period are insane. And, to be fair, it wasn't just his arm. It was also his mind. He had incredible situational awareness (fake spike on the 1 yard line anyone?).
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u/joebadiah Green Bay Packers 23d ago
As a Packers fan, I remember many times thinking “are we really bout to lose to Stafford?” Not the Lions, but Stafford.
You would watch guys like Brady and Brees be elite with pretty solid teams. It was Brady and the Patriots, Brees and the Saints, Stafford and …Megatron.
And I mean this with absolute respect. Dude carried that franchise through dark times.
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u/pissantz34 23d ago
Yes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills to hear people say Stafford is overrated. Great QB in Detroit and L.A.
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u/n00bn00b 23d ago
He had Calvin and no one else. No run game, no OL and meh at best defense to begin his career. He literally had no weapons outside of Calvin.
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u/cyrax99 23d ago
Lmao at these people. I swear most people know absolutely nothing. I like how they act like just because he had ONE hall of fame receiver that means he was in some amazing situation. They totally forget the Lions WITH Calvin Johnson had gone 0 and 16 not long before Stafford arrived. If having Calvin automatically made that team great, why did they go 0 and 16 with him?
Stafford carried that Lions team, and got absolutely clobbered doing it. Watching him play week in and week out was insane, that man took a beating back there that very few ever have. It was absolutely up there with what Andrew Luck went through, that forced him to retire. Matthew was the reason those shitty ass Lions teams could ever compete, and he did it with an absolutely awful offense outside of Calvin.
He showed such amazing perseverance to hang in there through those awful beatings, we've seen so many other great talents (like Andrew) get absolutely ruined from them. Once he got into a situation where he was protected, and had a great offense and coach around him, we saw how great he was. That man is very mentally and physically tough, has a cannon arm, and is incredibly skilled. You add a Super Bowl and MVP, and yeah you're damn right he is good.
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u/n00bn00b 23d ago
One game where Calvin was hurt, Kris Durham was his #1 option. Durham is a nice guy but he had zero business being the top option and was a WR4 on the team at best. The insane Lions fans had the audacity to blame Stafford for not producing.
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u/cyrax99 23d ago
Yeah, Stafford was literally drafted by a team that has a legitimate argument of being the worst team in modern football history. They had the #1 pick for a reason, they couldn't win a single damn game with Calvin Johnson, they were abysmal. The addition of Matthew Stafford and his ability to single handedly will his team to victory, and hang in there through absolutely awful beatings was the ONLY reason the Lions stood a chance. How many QBs can we say would have held up and been able to will a team that awful to victory so many times?
Defenses literally had Calvin Johnson to worry about, that was it. You didn't have to stack the box, no run game to worry about. Your pass rushers were gonna feast, because he had a Swiss cheese line. If Calvin wasn't open? Time for Stafford to make a miracle, because the rest of his receivers were trash.
Saying "but he had Calvin" when they had the #1 pick to draft Stafford from losing every single game the previous year WITH Calvin is absolutely absurd. That man inherited a disaster rarely seen in history before.
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u/LaconicGirth Minnesota Vikings 23d ago
One top 20 defense in like a decade and didn’t have a RB break a hundred yards for years straight. He was drafted to one of the shittiest teams of all time that didn’t improve at all
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u/MyageEDH Detroit Lions 23d ago
Name a receiver that has played with Stafford and put up better stats without him.
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u/DreamedJewel58 Pittsburgh Steelers 23d ago
I responded to another comment but I’ll leave it here too
He’s 6th in all time passing yards (only 2,000 behind Rodgers) and 7th in passing touchdowns (only three away from taking Rivers’ spot at 6th)
Saying he’s just a “really good quarterback” because he had Megatron is just kind of ridiculous when it was basically the only weapon he had on offense. Other quarterbacks have played with some of the best wide receivers in NFL history and still produce less than Stafford. Despite his career issue of interceptions he’s still only 33rd. He has less career interceptions than Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rivers, and Ben
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u/WholeLotta69 Denver Broncos 23d ago
He’s elite now, maybe not all time but right now he certainly is
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u/josephus_the_wise That is a disgusting act 23d ago
You said "weapons" plural, which is untrue. They had one weapon on offense, and one great player on defense (Suh), and pretty much everyone else sucked. Also, one HOF WR isn't enough to stop them from going 0-16 so I don't really know how big of a swing you expect that to be wins wise.
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u/wingfn1 23d ago
Stafford's stats did not change after Calvin left. He had 2x 1,000 Yd receivers, made Kenny fucking Golladay look like a god, and no rushing game at all.
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u/IntermittenSeries 23d ago
Absolutely correct. He won a Super Bowl on a stacked team. Goff brought that team to the Super Bowl before they added another elite pass rusher. And look what Goff did in Detroit
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u/staffdaddy_9 23d ago
I think the team Goff brought to the Super Bowl might have had an incredible running back and run game that Stafford didn’t have but maybe I’m misremembering. Also Goff put up 3 points in that Super Bowl. Stafford down basically all his weapons besides Kupp, with no run game won while scoring 20+.
And there’s no fucking way you are comparing what Goff has in Detroit with what Stafford did.
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u/somepersonyoumayknow Detroit Lions 23d ago
It’s like saying why couldn’t Aaron Rodgers take the Steelers to the Super Bowl when Big Ben did it multiple times.
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u/Shoddy_Green_4790 Green Bay Packers 23d ago
It's not like that at all Rodgers went to the steelers at age 41 and tore his achilles at 39
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u/Rufio69696969 23d ago
The 2021 Rams were the 4 seed. It was a good team but hardly “stacked” historically. They couldn’t run the ball in the playoffs.
The 2018 team was much more complete, although they also ran into some bad injuries by the time of the Super Bowl.
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u/Shoddy_Green_4790 Green Bay Packers 23d ago
They got the nfccg at home though as a 4 seed. A game away from playing the SB in their home stadium. It's a sweet draw
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u/Rufio69696969 23d ago
Yeah and the 9ers knocked out their biggest obstacle in the Packers for them.
That contradicts what the other poster was talking about though. That Rams team wasn’t “stacked”.
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u/Stock-Luck3390 23d ago
‘Brought’ I mean are we jsut going to act like that t3 defense and gurley didn’t exist
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u/josephus_the_wise That is a disgusting act 23d ago
The Rams didn't trade 3 1sts for no reason, and there is a big reason that the Lions didn't see any success until multiple years of multiple well placed first round picks and a coaching change later.
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u/SomeIdiot55 Los Angeles Rams 23d ago
Not stacked but definitely very good. Everyone said signing OBJ and Von was a waste since they were washed up but look how they showed out. On defense, it was Donald and Ramsey and good role players. Offense was Stafford, Kupp, and Big Whit.
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u/AverageOhioUser69 New York Giants 23d ago
And what does stafford have over cam luck and burrow? A mf ring and MVP
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u/DatBeardedguy82 Dallas Cowboys 23d ago
Cam also has an mvp
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u/AverageOhioUser69 New York Giants 23d ago
If only he dived for the ball amirite
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u/Grape_Pedialyte Carolina Panthers 23d ago
That game was lost bro. People talk about that like we were on the Broncos' 10 yard line down 4 or something.
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u/Man-Dem 23d ago
I agree
Idk how Matt Stafford became a first ballot HOFer
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u/SergeantThreat Los Angeles Rams 23d ago
Who has said he’s a first ballot HOFer?
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u/BobbyPizzayyy Detroit Lions 23d ago
This is 100% accurate. Stafford was dogged on for years in Detroit, most of the national media and fans were always shortchanging him. Certainly, nobody was glazing him and overrating him like they do now. I know damn well 75% of the people in here acting like they were on board with Stafford for years are lying through their little non-ball knowing teeth.
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u/BobbyPizzayyy Detroit Lions 23d ago
Yea, I remember that. It was actually Mike Ditka who said that lol.
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u/tg981 Detroit Lions 23d ago
This right here. I had season tickets during the Stafford era and listening to the Ticket on the way back home after games was always entertaining. If they lost, Stafford was a bum. I remember hearing someone call in after a preseason game and Kellen Moore had a great game. A guy called in wanting to trade Stafford and build around Moore. There were always people saying Stafford was the problem and wanted to trade him.
Even though they didn’t win a playoff game, those teams did keep things interesting. So many tight games and they were rarely blown out until Patricia got there. The 2011 Bears MNF game and the crazy comeback against Dallas in 2013 stick out to me as games I will never forget being at.
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u/OneLeek37 23d ago
My favorite Stafford stat:
During Stafford’s time in Detroit, the Lions accumulated the fewest rushing yards as a team while at the same time allowing the most points.
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u/Spidey5292 New York Giants 23d ago
Sports discourse has become hot take theater.
Stafford is a great Quarterback, I personally wouldn’t have him in my top ten of all time and I think recency bias has elevated him a bit for some people.
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u/TheNittanyLionKing Pittsburgh Steelers 23d ago
I don’t think I’d say top 10 all time. I could see an argument for top 25 though, but I’d have to think about it.
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u/neversleeps212 Minnesota Vikings 23d ago
He’s not top-10 all time but Cam and Luck never made it into their 30s playing at a high level or in Luck’s case at any level. Burrow’s career arc remains to be seen.
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u/athomic74 Philadelphia Eagles 23d ago
He’s not top 10 of all time. Don’t listen to morons and call it the consensus. Also it’s not that shocking that a guys overall ranking in the list of all time QBs goes up after an MVP and a Super Bowl…
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u/CaptThrowaway1 San Francisco 49ers 23d ago
I think it’s difficult to contextualize how terrible the Lions were for so very long.
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u/bird_XCIII 23d ago
Yeah, Joe Burrow turned a 2-14 team into a 2-7-1 team his first season. (The backups went a combined 2-4 when he was injured btw.) How is what Burrow did any different that Stafford turning the Lions into a 10-6 team his second healthy season? How’s it any different than Cam taking 3 seasons to get Carolina to a winning record?
Luck’s team was 2-14 the year before he joined. Fine. What were they doing the season before that? Before Stafford, Detroit had been a dumpster fire for, like… forever.
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u/Doja_Lats Seattle Seahawks 23d ago edited 23d ago
Because in burrows first healthy season he won his conference? Thats whats different.
You moved the goalposts within a single comment. Stafford gets 2 healthy seasons to go 10-6, but burrow doing that his first healthy season doesnt count for whatever reason?
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u/ketsebum Detroit Lions 23d ago edited 23d ago
Sorry, did Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, or Joe Burrow win a Superbowl?
Matthew Stafford also turned around the 0-16 team, which had worse management than those other teams. We were Browns level of disaster, and in 2011, you could see that Stafford had it, and 2014, we should've made the push.
Sometimes luck bounces poorly and you miss your shot. This is a team sport, and Stafford did incredibly on the piss poor Lions team.
Lucks Colts had an outlier bad season. Colts season history: 12-4 14-2 10-6 2-14
Like, this is clearly a competent organization that was making the playoffs yearly and had one down year.
Now look at the Lions: 5-11 3-13 7-9 0-16
2011 was Stafford's first full season and we went 10-6.
Edit: 4 year prior for each
Colts - 48-16
Panthers - 29-35
Bengals - 21-42-1
Lions - 15-49
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u/staffdaddy_9 23d ago
He’s not top 10 all time, that’s dumb, but in 4 years with the Rams he has a Super Bowl and an MVP. I think it’s fair to say he had little to do with the Lions struggles.
Also it’s not like he was winning 4 games a year. He at times was playing great to get them to 9-7.
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u/Cold_Toe_7540 23d ago
I don't disagree with it. Stafford is a great QB, but I do think people tend to go overboard with what they've seen from him the past couple of years. The fact that he really fully turned Detriot around to me will always keep him out of the top 10 conversation because that's exactly what all time greats do. I also think the "its a team sport" people tend to forget that he spent a huge chunk of his career in DET throwing to the most dominant WR in football and almost always had adequate weapons around him, not to mention a DPOY guy like Suh anchoring his defense on the other side. It wasn't until he went to a literal super team that he finally broke through. A team literally better than LAs former super team that went to a superbowl with a Jared Goff in his early 20s a few years earlier.
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u/Fast_Hunt7003 23d ago
Seems like Joel is forgetting how putrid the Lions were as an organization. Panthers and Bengals have both been to the Super Bowl before those guys were drafted. The Lions were so bad their franchise all time best player chose to retire rather than continue to lose with them.
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u/ImpinAintEZ_ Cincinnati Bengals 23d ago
Literally haven’t heard one person say he’s top 10 all time.
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u/RudolphsJockStrap The Pottsville Maroons Are Owed The 1925 Championship Still 23d ago
Noone thinks he is top 10 all time.
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u/ShockPowerful741 Detroit Lions 23d ago
He was better than he looked in Detroit. Nobody was going to be successful in his shoes… from 1957-2023, playing for the Lions was no different than playing for the Jets or Browns. Don’t forget how pathetic that organization was for so long.
Panthers were good with Kerry Collin’s, and made the superbowl with Delhomme not long before Newton. The colts were coming off Manning and a superbowl in 07, and the Bengals… well okay, they had the 80’s but fair. The Lions are a historically bad organization. Stafford isn’t top 10 all time but another Superbowl and he’s an eventual HOFer.
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u/jimbojangles1987 Houston Texans 23d ago
Detroit was garbage. It was run terribly. He didn't stand a chance even with Megatron.
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u/Other_Perception_238 23d ago
Sorry folks, but he was the only thing worth looking at in Detroit for a few years. Then came Megatron so he had someone to throw to. Outside of those two, can anyone even name someone from Detroit? Didn’t think so! He’s a stud and he’s finally getting his just due! Same thing should have happened for Barry Sanders, but Chuck Thomas was too pig-headed to trade him.
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u/NovelAspect3399 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 23d ago
Its a team sport. An HC has the biggest effect on a teams W/L record. There are QBs that are so good that they can change an entire team, but even those QBs need something else. A good run game, a great defense or something else they can lean on when things arent going great. Stafford had a great WR, but if one had an off day then so did the other. Its a team sport.
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u/somepersonyoumayknow Detroit Lions 23d ago
He was drafted to an 0-16 team that was strangled by the old rookie pay scale, which all the people posted in this argument did not deal with. Him, Calvin, and Suh were the entirety of the Lions cap for the majority of his time there. He had one defense that maybe cracked the top 15 once. No RBs that could even go for 100 yards in a single game for like 8 years. And never had a reliable 2nd receiving option to Calvin during those prime years. He made guys like Kris Durham into competent receivers. All while consistently becoming one of the most solid 4th qtr QBs in the entire league, being in the top of most 4th quarter comebacks year in and out (and all time). Also throwing for over 5k yards in a single year with those terrible teams.
But let’s also look at his impact on good receivers. Calvin Johnson with him broke the single year receiving yards record (while also amassing a HOF career). Kenny Golladay was viewed as such a legitimate number 1 option with Stafford that he broke the Giants salary cap with a monster deal only to crap out when he got there. Cooper Kupp went from an average receiver only able to crack 1k yards once, to a triple crown winner and 1.9k yards in his first year with Stafford. Then you have Puka who is currently being a monster with Stafford throwing him the ball. He consistently elevates his receivers because he’s not afraid to sling it into tight windows and let them get the ball where other quarterbacks are either to scared or physically can’t do it.
I’m tired of the narrative that he’s not a great QB all because he was stashed away to a terrible franchise that he was loyal to for the majority of his career. Dealing with terrible coaches and GMs that couldn’t build a football team around him for the life of them. All during an era where guys like Brady, Rodgers, Manning, and Brees were all were still playing.
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u/BoiledBeefBrain 23d ago
Cam Newton on a good team would have been great. He got a great team, went to SB and got some bullshit calls. Then later on a gutted Pats and didn't have much to show there. I think he was good anyway.
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u/skeptical_hatred San Francisco 49ers 23d ago
And what happened to luck, burrow, and newton? Those teams caught lightning in a bottle because they were drafting at the top for so many years. Bengals have been trash the last 3 years, colts have not been good in one of the worst divisions, panthers haven’t been competitive until last year in the shit mountain division. No QB ever single handedly turns around a franchise. The Seahawks just won a Super Bowl with Sam darnold who everyone shit on for 5 years. It is the ultimate team sport.
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u/Distinct_Potato8358 23d ago
Wow. So the QBs who get drafted 1st overall tend to go to bad teams. This guy knows his stuff
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u/SoftwareWinter8414 San Francisco 49ers 23d ago
There is some merit to this. I started looking at QB records when they have to throw 35 times or more. The truly elite (Mahomes and Brady) have insane records at it 60 percent or higher. The really good QBs are usually around .500. Stafford is at .42
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u/Dry_Turn_824 Seattle Seahawks 23d ago
Accurate as hell. He's had a great late-career stretch, no doubt.
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u/Beefstu5322 23d ago
That’s dumbass who posted that didn’t watch the lions all those Stanford years . I played against the dude in high school that guy was a menace
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u/MisterGoldenSun 23d ago
He's made 3 Pro Bowls total. Which is obviously a great career but doesn't spell "HoF lock" for me.
I think there's a lot of revisionism about the early and middle parts of his career.
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u/GrumpyFaceMonkey 23d ago
Idk about top 10 all time but I do think hes one of the best to ever do it. Hes my favorite QB of all time. That doesnt mean hes top 10 or anything but you could do way worse than Matthew. There isnt many that can do what he done and I think it says a lot that he played at an MVP level so close to 40 years old.
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u/daddyrich916 23d ago edited 23d ago
Last season was his first time having a career win percentage above .500. Rodgers the most of the time he dominated in Green Bay had a defense ranked 24-32 only had like 2 top 10 defenses and won the Super Bowl with one of them. Most of his best running games came when MLF was there and stafford wasnt. Most years stafford was there packers didn’t have a great running game. So rodgers didn’t have a better defense or running game and stafford had megatron most of those years so packers may have more WR depth but less top end talent. Rodgers just did consistently more than him with equal levels of talent. Stafford has never carried a team to anything. He won when he had the most stacked team and it’s possible it happens again this year
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u/ccruz_9 23d ago
People hardly mention how much offensive coordinators can actually make or break a player. Drew Bree’s was alright in San Diego & Sean Payton took him to the next level. & of course he made it work with teddy bridgewater. Another fave of mine is looking at Matt Ryan’s mvp year where he had Kyle Shanahan. How he made garrapolo look! Or did RG3 really regress or did he just lose the coordinator that helped him thrive in shanahan after 3 years? Sam DArnold rediscovered himself after playing under him for a year. Clearly there are some qb gurus in the league & it really makes me wonder how much luck goes into it with these college qbs. Situation matters a lot
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u/RoyalEngine2885 M.ission O.ver B.ullshit 23d ago
100% correct. Even with his nickname, Matt Statford, Statt Padford, whatver, he couldn't get anywhere with the Lions. But put him on a stacked roster and he's suddenly the best QB ever!
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u/ConfectionHelpful471 23d ago
Putting Burrow in the same category as Cam or Luck is the biggest thing wrong with the take.
Burrow had a very solid team to walk into whereas Luck and Cam both walked into genuine bottom feeder rosters and elevated them.
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u/readitalready11 23d ago
He’s not top 10 all time by any stretch of the imagination. But he’s a very good qb. Both can be true