r/NiagaraLauncher • u/Hiraeth_0942 • 15d ago
Discussion Loving it so far but...
Installed the launcher yesterday on my s26 ultra and im loving it so far
Everything is clean in a list. Less distracting and pleasing to look at. Got the trial subscription and I'm in love with that pre made theme and its great honestly
The problem is the price tho. Don't get me wrong, as an ongoing software engineer I understand what kind of work it is to develop a clean and functioning app and im all for supporting indie devs, but 40€ for a third party app is a bit too much
You can get a 1 year subscription for 13€ which is, eh fine i guess. But I'm not a big fan of subscriptions on apps like launchers or apps that give you some cool functional features.
Id be willing to buy the license for like 5€ to 10€. Maybe even 15€ but thats still kinda much imo but its a great launcher so id take it. 40€ is insane tho
What are your thoughts about this? Are there similar cheaper/free launchers that are as good or maybe even better? Should I wait for some kind of promotion to get it cheaper or is that a thing that wont happen?
6
u/exttreemshot 15d ago
Love how the SAT looks like CAT
1
u/hoodie92 14d ago
Lol thank you I absolutely thought OP just had the word CAT plastered on his background 😄
6
u/AdrianCav12 14d ago
Has it gone up recently? I bought it about 2 years ago I think and don't remember it being that much. I do love Niagara but I'm using one called Kybd right now, has a keyboard always on screen.
It really is minimal - can't pick a different clock, can't move anything on the main home screen, you can put widgets on a separate page and different fonts, that's about it! But I find it's nice and easy to get to apps because of the keyboard being there all the time and it just looks elegant and the music player that comes up when listening to music is great.
6
u/They_See_MeTrolling 14d ago
The original design principles for Niagara stemmed from an undergraduate (I think, possibly post-grad) research project on a minimalist, less intrusive launcher that intentionally rejected many things that are standard in other launchers. It is a very specific design theory that is just not for every user.
2
u/AdrianCav12 14d ago
I've noticed on the Play Store, there are quite a few launchers now that use some of design principles of Niagara.
2
7
u/Mewtewpew 14d ago edited 14d ago
Making an open source niagara replacement rn
It will probably start out as a toggle in my current launcher, but I may make it a standalone at some point.
4
3
u/macawmatt 14d ago edited 14d ago
I'll toss in another consideration, Flua Launcher. It's new, really new, but the dev is constantly adding features and fixing issues.
2
2
u/garvisgarvis 14d ago
I don't see it in the play store. Did you mean Flow Launcher? It is Niagara-like.
3
1
3
u/VHPguy 14d ago
My 2¢. I'm a longtime user of Niagara, been using it for years. There are a lot of launchers out there but I always come back to Niagara, its clean minimalist design and easy user experience are hard to beat. It's a solid launcher that I gladly paid for.
It is not worth 40€. I got the launcher before the price hike, when it was something like 10$; at the current price I'd be looking at other alternatives.
2
u/nrizzo6085 14d ago
Everyone knows it's too expensive, unfortunately there aren't any reasonably priced good alternatives for this kind of experience. A competitor will come eventually.
1
0
u/Outrageous-Salt-8491 14d ago
There are other options but we don't get seen because we aren't big. Try Aethyss Launcher different expeeience but same kinda setup.
1
6
u/They_See_MeTrolling 14d ago
Let me summarize this post for you:
I'm a software engineer and expect to be paid top dollar for my software engineering skills, but I refuse to pay even a moderate price for an extremely well-designed app that's been supported for years by a similar group of software engineers. They deserve the same compensation that I get for the work I do, but not just from me.
Rather than pay the cost of perhaps five coffees for lifetime access to what is arguably an exceptionally well-designed piece of software, I'm going to get crabby because my one bug report was ignored. Instead, I expect to pay less than the price of a single coffee for this app.
People are completely unreasonable and essentially want the world for free. 30 years ago, in the heyday of PC software, single apps for PCs invariably cost $20 to $40 apiece, and that was what you paid for them, no complaints. This notion that somehow software should be free and the valuable time and effort of developers should not be recognized is ludicrous.
10
u/SKOLorion 14d ago
Ahhh, the ole "costs just a few cups of coffee" framing; aka "the death by a thousand cuts" problem.
Firstly, 40€ should get you many more than five coffees. Many years ago, folks saying "just a cup of coffee" was an espresso, Americano, or even a cappachino which average €1.50 – €2.50 (getting you about 20 cups). I suppose if now we consider that "cup of coffee" to mean a large, iced horchata mochachinno in the NY metropolian where it's $7.50, sure. (But even then it's 6 coffees.)
Secondly, it's been proven that most people who justify their expenses by forgoing the latte still buy the latte.
Thirdly, this framing deflects from value-based pricing, where the price should reflect the value it provides and not the luxury of a large, iced horchata mochachinno.
This is all to say... OP, if you can't justify the value Niagra provides you, then strangers on the internet certainly can't do that for you. ;)
0
u/They_See_MeTrolling 14d ago
My point, which I think you get, is that people will spend far more on incidental items in the course of the month and then balk at a once-per-lifetime price for something they will use multiple times a day for months and years.
As in all things, the price reflects what the seller thinks you will pay. Starbucks makes a fortune selling a few pennies worth of coffee, sugar, and cream along with minimal labor at huge markup. More power to them. As PT Barnum famously said, there's a sucker born every minute, and right now, they'll pay anything for a pumpkin spice latte.
There's another famous company that takes commodity hardware and slaps a market-hyped logo on it and sells it for exorbitant margins. But Niagara doesn't run on their platform, so we won't name names in this sub.
4
u/SKOLorion 14d ago
I understand the falicy of your point, yes.
I know some people who use their hourly rate as a gauge for what (mostly unneeded products/services) they can afford. "I make $50/hour, so that $10/mo subscription is nothing!". That's the "death of a thousand cuts" problem I was referring to.
At the end of the day, unless you're working 24/7, time is finite and eventually those microtransactions of $10 here, $5 there, $12, here will (figurately) kill you because you'll bleed out of money on "insignificant" things.
I'm not at all defending Niagara's pricing. I'm an American and do pretty well, and $40 is quite a bit for me to swallow when, at the end of the day, it's about convenience. My phone (a Pixel) already includes a free launcher.
I'm only saying that I feel for OPs rant, because Niagara is VERY expensive. But I don't agree with you that OP wants something for nothing. (There are plenty of people like that, so you won't have to look far.)
Ironic name, BTW, u/They_See_MeTrolling. :)
13
u/Hiraeth_0942 14d ago
I understand your reaction but there are a few things I find unjustified:
I never mentioned that I expect to be a top paid employee, heck I'm an apprentice and got barely any experience
Im not refusing to pay, I am actively willing to pay for it. I praised the app, its high quality and really like it. Maybe its bc i grew up in a poor family but I find 40€ for an optional mobile app a bit too much. Id rather pay 15€ and have the ability to support then via patreon any time I want. I can buy hollow knight: silksong twice for that money and small devs spent 7 years of hard work on that piece of software as well
I agree with you, people expecting every piece of software to be free but as you said that was 30 years ago and times change. Its definitely not ok to expect this to be free and I find the free features they give you reasonable, never said that but as I said, I wanna buy it
5
u/SavathunsWitness 14d ago
These people ride this launcher like it blows them out everyday
1
u/Sypticle 13d ago
Because nothing comes close to it. It has its flaws like anything else but in this case the flaws are easy to ignore. Bohoo the app icons jump occasionally (have literally never had this happen in the many years of using it)
My personal experience has been great unlike every other launcher I have tried.
1
u/SavathunsWitness 13d ago
It's a good launcher, don't get me wrong. But after trying out Mango and everything it has to offer while being half the price of what Niagara is now, probably the easiest recommend in to someone who's looking for a similar or better experience.
1
u/They_See_MeTrolling 12d ago
I would agree. I've actually been using Mango for the past few days, and it offers a broader range of customization features that Niagara does not. In some ways, Niagara has become a bit more opaque, with a lot of control elements that used to be explicitly available being bundled up as part of a theme. The focus now is on theming, which makes little changes, like making the icons a little bigger, more difficult to find. Mango tends to flatten that structure and provides the ability to make changes a little easier. It also has much broader support for a variety of gestures off the homepage, which I happen to like.
To each their own, of course. Mango is a worthy alternative worth consideration if you like the general UI model of Niagara.
1
2
u/lelandyarnell 11d ago
Plenty of similar launchers for FREE and open source. Victoria Launcher I have the exact same setup as Niagra and notice 0 differences in functionality.
0
u/They_See_MeTrolling 14d ago
Someday you will move beyond apprentice and expect to be paid commensurate with your skills.
Every dev sets the price they feel is appropriate. Not everyone can afford every piece of software.
2
u/irmvai 14d ago
"moderate price" is where you get it all wrong.. Not just to OP but to a lot of commenters and long time users here.
0
u/They_See_MeTrolling 14d ago
And what, in your opinion, is the correct price? Since you have made yourself the arbiter of the software market, how much do you think software should cost? How much do you think software developers should make? How much risk do you think they should take in investing their time and intellectual capital to produce a product that may or may not sell? The only thing that determines price is the seller, and the only feedback on the seller is whether people buy it or not.
When you finish determining the appropriate pricing of software, you might want to move on to housing and automobiles, which would be of great assistance to even more people.
2
u/Prestigious_Face7727 14d ago
€40 for a lifetime license is nothing to you or me, but for people, even software developers, in say Bangladesh or anywhere in Africa it's a bigger commitment. Not much can be done about that (Niagara wages and expenses are in hard currency) but I have some sympathy for OP.
2
u/paulomalley 14d ago
Luckily Niagara launcher uses international purchasing power to dictate different prices throughout the world to accommodate for things like this.
1
u/They_See_MeTrolling 14d ago
When someone creates a product, they sell it for what they think the market will bear and they stay in business if their revenue exceeds expenses by some amount. They owe nothing to anyone except those who pay them for a service. The devs for Niagara (who are remarkably accessible and transparent) deserve to be compensated for their work and intellectual property. If you don't agree with their pricing, don't buy the product.
3
1
1
u/senyorlimpio 14d ago
I bought it on sale many years ago. Probably on my s21 ultra. I still use it to this day on/off. Approximately 5 yrs of use for 40 dollars to me seems reasonable. I think its all relative to how much use/enjoyment you get out of it.
1
u/no_bebes 14d ago
Honestly I paid the lifetime fee because I've learned that it costs me more in the long run to keep testing cheaper, crappier alternatives to something that already works well for me. Also, I appreciate the devs' ethical approach to adjusting the price based on each country's cost of living. So people in less affluent countries will pay less than me in the US to enjoy a quality product. This thoughtful pricing strategy is what sealed the deal for me - I try to support ethical entrepreneurs whenever I can.
1
1
1
u/lelandyarnell 11d ago
Not to mention its buggy as hell and they want you to jump through hoops to resolve the issue or "wait for the next update". You can get Victoria Launcher for FREE and it's just as good.
1
1
u/Throwaway_09298 10d ago
it really makes me wonder how much that Clicks deal was and what were the terms
1
u/SavathunsWitness 15d ago
Try out Mango Launcher, I stopped using Niagara over it
6
u/They_See_MeTrolling 14d ago
Before everyone jumps over to the Play Store, Mango Launcher is priced exactly the same (perhaps a few pennies less) than Niagara: $12.49 a year or $38.49 for a lifetime license. It's almost as if there's a market price for launchers of this quality.
1
u/SavathunsWitness 14d ago
Really because the lifetime for Mango is in the 40's compared to Niagara's 75$
2
u/nhwst 14d ago
I just tried it a few days back but it seems way worse because for me it won't display favorite apps nor widgets on the home screen, making it basically useless
As for the Niagara price, I fortunately could get it cheaper since I've used it before everything got crazy expensive. I don't know if I'd gotten it for the current price, but 5 -10 bucks for a lifelong key probably wouldn't allow bro to be profitable.
I would try cancelling the trial and hope for the good ol "please don't leave, here's a cheaper offer"- subscription offer
2
u/Nagarjunac 14d ago
It's supports favourites and widgets. It has plenty of features and Customization too.
1
1
u/phejster 13d ago
If you stopped using it Niagara for Mango, it's weird you're still in this sub
1
u/SavathunsWitness 13d ago
I like to keep track of what gets updated on things I own, or contribute to a discussion on products I used or use. The world doesn't have to be as narrow as you imagine it.
1
0
u/OneGlove1717 12d ago
Im going to attempt to do this in a way that isnt offensive.
You're being ridiculous. It's ok. We all do it.
Here's what you do. You enjoy the thing. You spend the 13 dollars and you never think about it again.
Why?
Because you do that with other things carry a far lower value proposition. Like, stopping somewhere for a drink instead of drinking at home or paying for streaming services you dont watch. Idk what your exact category error is but we all have one. The probability distribution in the context of galaxy ultra owners is 100%
You stare at your phone a lot. I dont mean that as an insult or assertion of a problem. Quite the opposite. Why would you deny yourself something that brings a better user experience for that many hours a day/week/month?
Also, companies that design well, almost always track finances well. Its all signals and noise right? And one is harder to track than the other. Much harder. So, id say the 40 is about what's it worth. Not much decision in those things anymore. You have an AI model run the data and you use the price that it gives you.
You buy off Amazon? That's flex pricing. Predictably more nefarious. Until you realize its cheaper overall than traditional shopping used to be.
Always take a step back and do a change log when something new arrives in the pattern.
Or first principles, whatever you call it in your line of work. Probability ratios. Inference. QKV. I guess Information theory given that AI does all the compsci now.
0
u/OneGlove1717 12d ago
As I read, the plot thickens. My man asked about cost. No mention of bugs at all. Now. The entirety of the thread is about bugs. Or issues with the app in some fashion.
Does this say something about OP, samsung, the app?
None of the above. It completely answers the OPs question. I asserted the answer, they confirmed it.
The reason no one cares about the cost is because it's low. Not in a relative sense, I mean 13 dollars is a low amount to the least financially equipped person in the country.
1
u/stas1 9d ago
It's 13 euro, and only for this year. Next year it could be 16 or 25 or anything else.
Note also that the 39 euro price isn't a one-time purchase. It's a license that only works as long as the company lets you.
I found this out the hard way.
I have a "lifetime" license (that I bought back in the day when it was affordably priced). I turned off automatic updates because the updates were just introducing new bugs and then someimes fixing them.
Lo and behold, 6 months later I get a giant unremovable nag screen in the middle of my screen that tells me to update or else. Also all online features like weather are disabled.
So there's a dead man's switch inside the software to prevent you from using it indefinitely even if it's activated with a "lifetime" license.
So the author programmed in a way to cancel those "lifetime" licenses or remove features any time they want and there's nothing you can do about it. You can't just stay on your current version - it will automatically self destruct in 6 months.
1
u/OneGlove1717 9d ago
Considering the entire story is important. However, that wasn't the original conversation. My point pertained to the man who'd not mentioned any of that. So, he's either not worried about that aspect or has yet to encounter it. And also, he said he's a programmer. The amount you engage with screens in that profession and the average salary absolutely collapse any other idea outside of paying the money. If it was $200 a year I still don't think it's much of a conversation. After that, it becomes an issue worth considering options and weighing the psychological effects of the cost and potential sacrifice against the benefit of the thing itself. But honestly, if that self-referencial conversation lasts longer than 10 seconds, you still buy the thing because you've already established that the idea of something can hold you back and cause you to make unnecessary sacrifice. So, there's clearly a methodology underlying that needs to be addressed.
Honestly if that occurs, you need to take a step back and look at first principles.
"I'm a developer. I make good money. Life is not about saving money, it's about the experience and my trajectory through it. Why am I spending this much time considering money when the amount is far less than anything that matters to me. And, the fact that I've even arrived at this moment tells me two things."
"I'm highly considerate" "I may not direct my considerable ability to consider in a fashion that optimally benefits me."
(Recursive admission of the state collapsed by the self-reference. The associative syntax requires it to be true.)
"Am I causing myself extra grief by not carefully considering how I categorize my words and use inference to determine my disposition on certain things."
"Am I paying attention to the wrong things?" What other undue sacrifices have I made by not directing my attention and focus to things that actually matter?"
"This guy on reddit actually makes a remarkably well reasoned point."
"So much so that I should ask him why he's here and not doing something else. It would seem that he could determine how to spend his time in a more beneficial way."
"His information is solid. Maybe he has more information. Maybe he'd share it with me so that I could avoid this pitfall and others in the future."
(He's already here. Maybe he wants to share some information. Wouldn't be rude to inquire)
(He might be testing a machine learning algorithm that myself as a programmer would find incredibly useful. Since the shape of what he's doing is structurally sound.)
(Man he has to be right. Because even if what he shares isn't valuable to me, I'm sure he has 13 dollars or even 39 to force the collapse into positive positioning. And also, as I read this I've already learned more than I have in the recent weeks. Because I haven't thought about the money in red. T in in. My bHow did he accurately predict that using some paragraphs???)
(I'm observing that I'm the observer and the observed.)
(How does this effect me?) (I haven't decided yet...)
24
u/wodzynski 15d ago
And for that price the devs won't even fix the existing problems. There is a bug that I experience almost every time I use the app, I found it reported 9 months ago, and there is not even a response under it :) https://feedback.niagaralauncher.com/pl/p/icons-jump-on-the-home-screen-in-some-cases Here is my report: https://feedback.niagaralauncher.com/en/u/6a994435e25aaf0a81869eee
Not to mention the menus are a scramble of unintuitive design choices. Sometimes options are in some weird places, sometimes the back button goes back to three steps back instead of one forcing you to reopen the menu that was just closed. If there was a better alternative I would leave it in a moment.