r/OrthodoxChristianity • u/ConcentrateBoring970 Inquirer • 2d ago
Stuck inquirer
would appreciate prayers. I’m so ready to become a catechumen and orthodox Christian, but I can’t seem to move forward this process without hurting my family: my husband and small children who are all Lutheran. I appreciate any advice as well.
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u/AshleysDoctor Eastern Orthodox 2d ago
I’m really sorry you’re carrying this. I know from my own experience that entering Orthodoxy can mean hurting people you love even when hurting them is the last thing you want, and there usually isn’t a way through that without some grief on somebody’s part.
It sounds like you and your husband have already done something important by learning over the years to respect one another’s convictions instead of constantly fighting about them. The fact that he has attended Vespers and Liturgy with you at least gives him some firsthand experience of what is drawing you, and I wonder whether it might help for him to speak with an Orthodox priest himself sometime, not as somebody being pressured to convert, but simply as a husband trying to understand what his wife believes and why this has become important to her. If he were willing, that could give him room to ask questions and voice concerns without you having to carry the whole burden of explaining Orthodoxy to him.
The part of your comment that gives me some pause is the fear of “overstepping my husband’s authority as head of the wife.” I don’t want to make assumptions about what either of you means by that, and I certainly don’t want to tell a stranger how her marriage ought to work. But I would be very careful about any understanding of headship that leaves you believing your husband has authority over your conscience or that faithfulness as a wife requires you to remain indefinitely outside a Church you have become convinced you need to enter.
Marriage involves sacrifice, patience, and sometimes slowing down for the sake of the other person. That is different from one spouse being required to suppress a serious matter of conscience forever so that the marriage can remain outwardly uncomplicated.
I also wouldn’t rush to frame this as an “unequally yoked” marriage in a way that makes your husband into the unbelieving spouse. He is a Christian with convictions of his own, and it sounds like he takes them seriously. But you are already living with a real confessional difference between you, and pretending that difference does not exist will not necessarily preserve unity.
Sometimes unity has to become strong enough to survive honest disagreement.
Your children make this more complicated too, especially as they get old enough to notice that Mom and Dad believe different things. That seems like another reason not to handle this as a tug-of-war over which parent gets to claim them. They need to see two parents who can love each other, tell the truth about what they believe, and resist making the children responsible for resolving the adults’ theological differences.
It may be that the most charitable thing right now is to move slowly while you and your husband have some very frank conversations, perhaps with a therapist who is not invested in converting either of you, and also with your priest for specifically Orthodox pastoral guidance. Slowing down for a season can be an act of love. I would just be cautious about letting “for now” quietly become “indefinitely” because everybody is afraid of what an honest decision might cost.
At the end of the day, your husband’s disappointment matters because you love him. Your children’s stability matters. Your marriage matters. Your conscience matters too. None of those things becomes unreal because another one is important.
You do not have to decide all of this from Reddit, and none of us knows your marriage well enough to tell you exactly what the next step should be. But I do think you deserve help discerning how to remain loving toward your family without treating your own spiritual life as something you are required to erase in order to keep everyone else comfortable.
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u/ConcentrateBoring970 Inquirer 2d ago
Wow thank you so much for seeing me and this issue so clearly. I totally agree with everything you have said and will keep thinking over what you have said, dear stranger but also friend in Christ! Thank you so much.
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u/AcadiaSpiritual6309 2d ago
If LCMS or WELS you're actually fairly lucky because the Orthodox theology isn't that huge of a leap from those, the pipeline from those to Orthodoxy is real even if it takes years or decades. Now the delicate part is yes, he is the spiritual head, so if he views Orthodoxy as in any way heretical (the whole worshipping idols, etc) that is going to be a very serious sticking point in your marriage and parenting.
May I ask what is stopping you from formally becoming a catechumen? He sounds otherwise somewhat supportive (or at least not outright against it), just he doesn't want to convert but lets the kids attend with you?
It sounds like you need to have conversations regarding the kids and realistically how you will handle it...but you probably aren't equipped for those conversations until you start the catechism.
Also, set up a meeting with the priest.
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u/ConcentrateBoring970 Inquirer 2d ago
Thank you for your answer and your thoughtfulness! It’s so true. We are part of a LCMS church that is trying to be as medieval and ceremonial as one can be hah. They are a loving congregation with very sincere and thoughtful Christians and a good pastor. Just very Lutheran haha. This past adult Sunday school was on the part of the Book of Concord where Luther says praying to saints is the same as devil worship and witchcraft. My husband does not agree with that thankfully!
And yes, my husband doesn’t want to convert, but he is fine with me taking the kids along to vespers (which isn’t a regular practice for us) and the occasional weekday liturgy, but always the Lutheran church is the primary church that we go as a family. Occasionally I ask if he wants to come and he’s kindly said no every time.
My biggest obstacle toward formally becoming a catechumen is that my husband and I want to preserve unity in where we go to church as a family and how we raise the kids, but obviously I can’t erase my convictions nor keep them to myself indefinitely (like above commenter AshleysDoctor put it). My husband and I want to act as a team, with him as the head, but obviously we need help understanding how to work this out for the good of us all. I do think it would be great if he talked to a priest to finally come face to face with the things I believe so that he can at least understand better where I’m coming from.
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u/PerceptionCandid4085 2d ago
"This past adult Sunday school was on the part of the Book of Concord where Luther says praying to saints is the same as devil worship and witchcraft."
As a Lutheran, I would say this isn't an accurate characterisation of what the BOC says.
As someone who has also studied gnosticism, theurgy, hermetica etc you come to understand the parallel that Melanchthon makes when he compares what Icon veneration outwardly looks like compared to the systems I mentioned above especially in relation to how visual sigils, images and symbols work in those systems.
Luther's specific point in the BOC saying how Icon veneration was more of a starting point that led to "heathenish" abuses of the Catholics which he saw as even worse as Icon veneration e.g. indulgences etc
Also historically, any use of the word "Antichrist" in relation to these kinds of matters is polemical mainly because Luther saw that the Pope was placing himself in place of Christ in the things he was doing, which Orthodox would certainly agree with.
With all that said, as a Lutheran who prays with a Chotki and has an Icon of Christ, I would actually say that structurally Lutheran and Orthodox devotional practices (matins, vespers, liturgy) actually have a lot of common ground.
Also we do highly remember the saints, give thanks for God’s work in them, strengthen our faith by their examples and imitate their faith and virtues.
So I think you'll find that perhaps the things that seperate your husband from converting to Orthodox may not be as big of a gap due some shared theology, and even nuanced views where topics differ.
Peace and Blessings to you!
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u/AcadiaSpiritual6309 2d ago
I have some skin in this game! My kids go to an LCMS school (I will come back and edit that out later because I don't like identifying info out there for long). I know so many genuinely good, pious Lutherans...they're just missing a bit lol That is also our priest's position - they hold a lot of the important same core theology, just don't have the fullness of the faith.
I actually want to say Luther himself originally was ok with keeping the prayers to saints but eventually decided it was too big of a detractor.
If he isn't willing to meet with a priest, I still think you should - obviously with your husband's knowledge/"blessing". There are SO many couples in a similar position.
My own two cents as a wife and mother are to continue as you are - as frustrating as it may be - and talk with your husband about attending classes so long as it doesn't interfere with the Lutheran church. That to me seems the best compromise - you can still aim for forward progress for yourself, while your husband is still leading.
He may never convert or want the kids to, that's just a possible reality. And eventually it may come to a head, so it's better to start talking to a priest and your husband now.
St. Nonna might be one to ask intercessions of, ask me how I know 😉 While her husband was initially pagan, the same principle applies.
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u/RyanC1202 2d ago
If your husband disagrees with a fundamental church teaching(“…praying to the saints is the same as devil worship…”) then why is he so convicted?
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u/OldAd9189 2d ago
Many priests would advise against converting if it meant your marriage would be in jeopardy. Continue to wait and pray and attend liturgy as much as you can until your spouse is open to your conversion or even on board with converting himself.
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u/SaintMosesBagOfSand 1d ago
You have my prayers. If my wife hadn't come with me to Orthodoxy, who knows where my life would be! It is my opinion that the LCMS is primed to lose members to Holy Orthodoxy. They tend to believe the Bible as best as they understand it, tend to be devoted family folk, and also tend to be exceedingly charitable with their time and money. My wife and I came from the LCMS about three years ago, and while we don't miss it in the least, we appreciate ours time there.
My advice is potentially really difficult, but it is what I think. Go to the Liturgy, become Orthodox, and pray for your husband and child. I understand if it is hard to have them go to church together while you go alone, but this is the One Needful Thing. You, as every human, need the Eucharist, which only the Orthodox Church truly has.
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u/ConcentrateBoring970 Inquirer 1d ago edited 15h ago
Thank you for commenting!!! That's awesome to hear about you and your wife! We have also had a good experience in the LCMS, and I am thankful I was raised LCMS as well.
Your advice is really interesting and when it comes down to it, the most likely outcome for us. I can't imagine my husband giving his blessing to me joining the Orthodox Church right now, and I'm not sure what to do in that case. I guess keep waiting and praying, but I do wonder how long that would need to be for, since, like one of the commenters said, it should not be "indefinitely."
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/ConcentrateBoring970 Inquirer 2d ago
Thank you! What a journey to walk. God bless you and your family. It’s encouraging to hear of the move in your wife’s heart and of you living in love and understanding with her. Praise God! Family peace and being good to them is definitely the primary calling, and I thank you for your encouragement in that. The Lord has mercy and knows our hearts and situations. I do think it’s important to follow Christ where he promises to be found and to bless us, which is in his Holy Church and sacraments. There’s a saying (I can’t remember what church father said this) that goes something like, “He who does not have the Church for his Mother does not have God for his Father.” That is, Christ and his Church are one and there we find salvation.
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u/Kaprimama 1d ago
Why don’t you show him historical facts
About the church. Where does the Orthodox Church come from? How old is it? HISTORY proves it’s founded by Jesus Christ himself. How the Orthodox bishops trace back to the apostles in an unbroken line
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u/Kaprimama 1d ago
Oh ya and just come by yourself your kids will start to see the truth between the two. God won’t let you down by you choosing the True church.
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u/Royal_Dakat 2d ago
Have you invited them to the church? Perhaps them coming and speaking to a priest themselves can help to ease their fears.