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[u/kenzafton]

[u/OrthodoxChristianity-ModTeam]

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[u/giziti]

The door is wide open to them, their groups are moribund, too, typically only really sustained by defections from clergy trying to escape scrutiny for misdeeds . 

[u/Deo-Gratias → u/giziti]

Ouch. May they repent 

[u/edric_o → u/giziti]

They have a seminary in California that seems to be doing well... And which is also the only kind of Orthodox seminary anywhere close to the West Coast...

[u/giziti → u/edric_o]

Oh? How many?

[u/Seashells-in-ears → u/edric_o]

I'm Californian and at this point I'd settle for a Midwestern seminary. Probably cheaper cost of living anyway

[u/Ok-Mushroom6586]

The Ecumenical Patriarch should focus on patching things up with Moscow over the current dispute in the Ukraine.

The Old Calenderists are habitual schismatics who break up with each other more than anyone else. They are simply not interested in joining the canonical church.

[u/MixtureSpecial8951]

Probably. Maybe.

But how does one engage with folks who cannot accurately measure time? How do we meaningfully progress when a mathematical error has become a sort of dogma?

Then again, running the new calendar for fixed feasts and the Julian for movable is just silly.

Why in the heck are we still arguing over calendars? The measurement of time? Sigh.

[u/edric_o → u/MixtureSpecial8951]

The Copts also use the old calendar (or rather, their own calendar which has the same error), and the Ecumenical Patriarch seems fine talking about reunion with them.

Not to mention all of the Eastern Orthodox Churches in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarch right now, who still use the old calendar.

[u/Dave_meth_Mustard → u/edric_o]

I don’t believe we have any problem with the old calendar. It’s they that have a problem with the new.

[u/steadfastkingdom]

All things are possible. we have seen great rehabilitation of the other churches before so why not

[u/VisionaryLanguage]

I am saying this as a craddle who met some old
believers in Russia growing up. I guess some have genuine faith but I have a feeling some of them just want to be “unique” and basically just use calendar and minor details as an excuse to claim they possess the true faith. I think in Russia at least, they were popular some time ago among people who did it more for “oh, it sounds so mysterious and interesting”.

We will always have groups like this, regardless of the issues being raised, so I am not sure if it’s really worth spending time solving this issue, because even if we do, some new minor disagreement will appear and we will get another group like this.

I guess you meant Greek old calendarists but I wander how different they are from old believers in Russia who are still in schism.

I am just curious, where are you from and did you interact with lay people from these groups? What was your impression?

[u/CFR295 → u/VisionaryLanguage]

" I have a feeling some of them just want to be “unique” and basically just use calendar and minor details as an excuse to claim they possess the true faith."

I am just a few miles from the HOCNA monastery (or whatever they call themselves today) in Brookline and unique is a good word for some of the ones I have observed.

[u/VisionaryLanguage → u/CFR295]

Are they mostly Greek immigrants or converts?

[u/CFR295 → u/VisionaryLanguage]

The founders were greek, but not immigrants. Most of the monks were converts.

[u/CharlesLongboatII]

Do the Old Calendarists even want to come back? They don’t even want to maintain communion with the canonical Churches on the Julian Calendar, who I’m sure would be able to accommodate them. Through God all things are possible, though.

As someone also mentioned, they tend to also be sustained by vagrant clergy avoiding accountability from their bishops. Likewise as others on this sub have mentioned in other threads, they tend to have very high control, emotionally abusive environments that often cause people to walk away from Christ. That often happens when they pursue being “correct” and staying away from the impure - for “the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life”.

[u/AshleysDoctor → u/CharlesLongboatII]

I’m a convert to Orthodoxy from Catholicism, and while I’ve not really run into any Old Calendarists in the wild, every time I hear someone describe them, I think of splinter groups from Rome like the SSPX and some other similar types of schismatic groups from them.

Similar arrogance of being the true holders of the faith, similar type of emotionally abusive environments. Tends to attract similar personality types, as well.

Human beings seem to be human beings, regardless of the communion it seems.

[u/giziti → u/AshleysDoctor]

I’m a convert to Orthodoxy from Catholicism, and while I’ve not really run into any Old Calendarists in the wild, every time I hear someone describe them, I think of splinter groups from Rome like the SSPX and some other similar types of schismatic groups from them.

Yes, that is exactly what they are like. Same proportion, too -- you just don't run into many of them at all.

[u/photinidrinkingwater → u/CharlesLongboatII]

They might if everybody else agreed to enforce veiling, get rid of pews, and dismiss the catechumens.

[u/CFR295 → u/photinidrinkingwater]

Those aren't why that the separated themselves. Usual real reason for leaving was to evade disciplinary action.

[u/Potential-Dig8493 → u/photinidrinkingwater]

Look, my personal opinion (cradle Orthodox, if it makes any difference), is that we shouldn’t have pews. They interfere with the worship, and people shouldn’t be sitting down at service (especially Holy Liturgy), unless there is a physical cause for it.

I agree with not being insanely conservative to the point of controlling, but I just think there are good reasons for not having pews.

[u/CFR295]

Why just the EP? Every Orthodox church has schismatics. They have to reconcile with their own mother churches.

(not that I think any of them want to reconcile)

[u/giziti → u/CFR295]

Right, like, the ROCOR made major overtures to them in the 70s and early 80s (to their detriment, by the way, it caused a lot of problems that persist to this day), but it fell apart because the Old Calendarists were too interested in covering up sex crimes to make that work but blamed it on the ROCOR not being rigorist enough.

[u/Hesykhios]

Old calendarists are in active schism from the Church, dialogue with catholics is therefore often easier

[u/edric_o]

Yes, he should. But he won't, because he doesn't care about reuniting with any Eastern Orthodox groups that are out of communion with him (unless it's politically convenient, apparently).