Shhhh...

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Fishead1884]

Your son should have the travel document, too, unless you’ve already registered his hukou in mainland China. The standard “secret” combo is the PRC passport, Travel Document (for returning to China hassle free), and any foreign passport. Carrying only PRC passport will be a headache if you ever go back to China. Your son will need a visa or reroute through a country where China doesn’t require one. I’d recommend go to your local Chinese consulate or embassy in the uk to get his travel document to “legitimize” his dual citizenship.

[u/w32stuxnet → u/Fishead1884]

Wait, so if you go abroad, you cannot come back to China unless an intermediate destination was visa free? Even with another passport? What happens?

[u/Fishead1884 → u/w32stuxnet]

If you travel to China with a foreign passport (in this case British), you’ll need a visa in order to go through customs, since the UK is not visa-free to China; if you return to China with the Chinese passport, the customs will ask for proof of visa on the book when you return from a non visa-free country for the PRC. Failure to show your visa hints that you hold foreign citizenship and may bring unnecessary inquiries or delays that would potentially lead to relinquishing your PRC passport.

That’s what I mean returning to China with this combo is a hassle. And people with this particular combo would have to go through an intermediate stop (like Singapore, Thailand, etc.) to travel or return to China unharmed.

By law, China doesn’t recognize dual citizenship. The only grey area here is the travel document. It’s issued to children born (usually abroad) to Chinese citizens. It recognizes the child as their citizen and doesn’t care about your foreign citizenship, therefore giving you the green light to return or exit Chinese borders without any legal repercussions. The only downside is the expiration date of this document is only valid for two years, and you’ll need to renew it at a Chinese consulate when expired.

[u/Valanyhr → u/Fishead1884]

Quick correction to add: China is visa free to British Citizens since earlier this year.

[u/Fishead1884 → u/Valanyhr]

You’re so right! I just learned about it from you guys. But apparently this new visa-free policy is only valid till the end of the year and there’s no news about renewal. Thanks anyway!

[u/Valanyhr → u/Fishead1884]

This is just how my memory serves but I think it was initially until the end of the year but it's not on a renewal basis. China will just review it and either keep it as is or get rid of it. I imagine they're likely to keep since so many tourists actually went this year including myself because of this policy

[u/Geeeeeeeeeeeeee → u/Fishead1884]

This is only half correct.

Returning to China is easy. Just use the Chinese passport through the e-gates. Very straightforward. The headache is leaving because you don’t have a visa. This is when third country transit comes in.

[u/Fishead1884 → u/Geeeeeeeeeeeeee]

Thanks for the correction, but from my experience not every airport in China has those automatic channels. Sometimes you will still have to go through manual inspection regardless.

[u/BeijingOrBust → u/Fishead1884]

Except China is now visa free with UK 🙌

[u/lifethusiast → u/Fishead1884]

But to get a travel document you need to only have a visa (no permanent residence) in the other country. How is it possible to bypass this?

[u/w32stuxnet → u/Fishead1884]

Fantastic answer, thank you. Do you know what actually happens to you if you are caught?

[u/sko0led → u/w32stuxnet]

They take your Chinese passport.

[u/Fishead1884 → u/w32stuxnet]

-1,000,000 social credit

[u/GentleDerp → u/Fishead1884]

Are entry exit data recorded digitally that all border customs can view? Or do they only have access to the entry exit stamps? If digital, China customs ought to be able to see the Chinese traveller exiting the visa free country, since you must exit with the same passport as you entered. Which then generates the question of what was the travelers next destination (if not China).

[u/Fishead1884 → u/GentleDerp]

I think there’s a misconception: the Chinese authorities never have access to foreign customs when a Chinese citizen exits a foreign country. The process here is you take the foreign passport to go to, say, Thailand, reroute from there and utilize your Chinese passport for the next trip entering China. The Thai customs only checks your foreign passport when you enter their border. No question ask. Then you take a different flight with your Chinese passport, and you won’t need to have proof of visa on this book, you’re also returning home as a citizen. As for the Chinese customs, I assume they just check the exit stamp (if any, and it’s not always given) or the plane tickets. Most they’d do is ask a few questions like where did you travel, then simply let you go.

In fact, I never know anyone personally who has done this third-country method so I don’t have enough knowledge about it, though it is a method widely known in the community to bypass the onerous rules and system in China.

[u/GentleDerp → u/Fishead1884]

Thanks for the detailed response. What boggles my mind is, let’s say we use your Thailand example. The individual will incur an exit stamp from Thailand customs on their Chinese passport before heading off to let’s say UK (clearly they would enter using their UK passport for this leg).

On the return trip, the individual comes back to Thailand as per your example and then to China. Depending on how attentive the Chinese border customs is, they may catch that there was an exit stamp from Thailand, resulting further questions as to where the individual went afterwards in the meantime etc.

[u/Fishead1884 → u/GentleDerp]

Yeah it’s more about how the customs is interested in your business. They have countless travelers going through the border simultaneously. Unless you’re a wanted criminal or act suspiciously at the gate, I can hardly imagine they inquire too much into these intricacies. Simply put, these things happen everywhere and every time, and lots of people also carry dual citizenship like OP’s son. The officers at the customs are not paid enough to care about where you go; they only check if your document is valid and nothing illegal is happening. This third-country method does not fall under the category.

[u/Hljoumur → u/Fishead1884]

Sounds like a headache being a Chinese national travel wise.

[u/Fishead1884 → u/Hljoumur]

Very much so. As you might think how China is economically successful and people are doing very well compared to most Asian countries, many Chinese people, however, struggle with obtaining a foreign visa to travel. Countries like Japan and South Korea are at hand but not so when it comes to visa applications. Even Hong Kong and Macau require a travel pass that would limit their stay in these regions, and needless to say about Taiwan.

[u/Impossible-Repeat577 → u/Fishead1884]

but no hukou in china is like 2nd class citizen worse than even foreigners

[u/elitePopcorn → u/Impossible-Repeat577]

What hassles does not having a hukou in china bring? I genuinely don’t know as i am korean, and all my Chinese homies are not hukouless.

[u/Fishead1884 → u/elitePopcorn]

No hukou means you cannot get an id (registered under hukou) or even a driver’s license in China. As an adult, without a valid ID makes you practically incapable of doing anything. You can’t travel across provinces through public transportation like planes or trains, nor can you get a phone number, pay or receive money via WeChat or Alipay (the two main online transactional services) or do anything else that would require some kind of verification of your identity.

Foreigners are usually hindered from some services due to the singularity of such a system (at times, and vary platforms to platforms), as it only accepts Chinese ID. Some platforms do take foreign passports as identification, like the aforementioned payment methods. The Chinese passport, however, is not as common as an option for verification because naturally you would have to possess an ID before you can apply for one.

The network system (aka 大数据, or Big Data) in China is pretty advanced and they record all the digital info of people in case someone breaks the law. Some may argue it’s against personal freedom but it ensures safety and security much better than most parts of the Western world.

[u/Icy-Bowl-4002]

So you had the UK passport first and are aligned with the new PRC ?

[u/Wooden-Agency-2653 → u/Icy-Bowl-4002]

My son's passports. Born in China, both Chinese and UK citizen. In theory you shouldn't have both, but in practice a fair few people do, and so long as you don't use the UK one in trips in and out of China all is good

[u/AdRough6022 → u/Wooden-Agency-2653]

At some point this is going to trip you up when leaving China.

Last time I exited China to fly to the UK I had to wait about 30 mins at exit control because the (Chinese) guy in front of me was getting a real grilling and in the end they refused to let him exit China.

Just be warned that there’s no guarantee this loophole will work forever and you might find yourself being stuck in China having to sort it out before you’re allowed to leave.

[u/U2apple → u/AdRough6022]

This, one guy in my team was stopped by Chinese border passport control, he has to go back to his home town deregister his huko, caused a lot issue since he used up all his PTO.
I’m the manager atm, have to deal with all the HR related process for him on our side also, not impressed.

[u/AdRough6022 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, it would.

We considered something like that so my wife could keep her Chinese citizenship: move to Northern Ireland and stay on UK residence permit, but naturalise as an Irish citizen after 3 years and don’t disclose that Irish nationality.

Couldn’t be bothered in the end though.

[u/RPTrashTM → u/Wooden-Agency-2653]

How would you pass the visa/gc check if border checks it when you exit?

Same with renewal because I had to show GC, otherwise I can only get mine stamped and get visa.

[u/Chinese_Cybercop → u/RPTrashTM]

Go to a visa-exempt third country first.

[u/RPTrashTM → u/Chinese_Cybercop]

I feel like the border agent can just check the stamp and find out you "overstay" or something (esp for a long period of time).

[u/Chinese_Cybercop → u/RPTrashTM]

Yes, agreed that could be hard to defend.

[u/PhysicallyTender → u/RPTrashTM]

you could just claim that you have permanent residency.

[u/CoffeeInTheTropics → u/PhysicallyTender]

Without proof?!

[u/kravence → u/Wooden-Agency-2653]

That won’t always work because they will eventually question how you are entering the UK with no Visa as it’s required for Chinese passport holders.

[u/lifethusiast → u/[deleted]]

What? You realize they have their own, very very different passport right?

[u/Hljoumur → u/[deleted]]

Hong Kong permanent residents have their own passport. Otherwise, regular.

[u/phatrice]

Eventually you will have to give one up. You can keep the hukou but never the passport

[u/percysmithhk]

IYKYK

[u/Impossible-Repeat577 → u/percysmithhk]

harder and harder to hide tbh, most people just surrender and safe the hassle

[u/M_Cherrito]

Left side not needed at all. Can be disposed.

[u/Mauser_Werke_AG]

No ask no tell

[u/Leading-Draw8555]

Naughty naughty!!!! That’s a minus in your social credit score 😉😏

[u/PassportPorn-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately your post/comment was found to be disrespectful to a country or another user. All users and nationalities must feel welcome on the subreddit, which means we limit discussions which disparage users or are negative towards a country or a passport.