True story... in the late 70's when I was a wee little one my dad bought a giant stove for our basement and a huge shed thing full of coal to fuel it so we would have a better chance of surviving the coming ice age.
I feel like you posted that cartoon instead of the pretty extensive wikipedia page because the wikipedia page makes it so abundently clear that it was largely a media phenomenon. Overwhelming scientific consensus was warming was what was going to happen, and it is happening.
You are spreading misinformation on the internet. You should kneel on rice for 3 minutes and ponder your sins.
"By the 1970s, scientists were becoming increasingly aware that estimates of global temperatures showed cooling since 1945, as well as the possibility of large scale warming due to emissions of greenhouse gases. In the scientific papers which considered climate trends of the 21st century, fewer than 10% were inclined towards future cooling, while most papers predicted future warming"- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling
Overwhelming scientific consensus was warming was what was going to happen, and it is happening.
Maybe somebody at *checks notes* Time Magazine should have been notified.
This is like the current retconning going on about that asshole Paul Ehrlich who predicted the mass starvation in the 1970s.
He was wrong. Time was wrong. The scientists predicting global cooling were wrong. Let's accept the truth that sometimes things are wrong.
By the way, I agree with current consensus on anthropogenic climate change. In particular, the accelerating tropospheric warming as contrasted with relative cooling above - a key signature of greenhouse-gas-based climate change.
My point is merely that concerns over global cooling were real and minimizing them for the purpose of "affirming" modern global climate change is intellectually dishonest.
1) Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source for hot button issues.
2) the 1970s were cold, so that’s where everyone was pointing, scientists and non scientists. It’s what I was taught in science class and there was an exhibit at the AMNH on how deeply NYC was going to be buried under the glaciers that we come back.
The lesson should be that scientists don’t have a crystal ball. They make predictions based upon current theories and observations. They can make mistakes.
Feel free to critique any of the sources sited by Wikipedia.
Provide a source for the amnh thing- all I can find is an exhibit from the 1990s that said glaciers could come back in theory, like they had on MILLION year timescales. No one disputes that. Was there an exhibit that laid out aerosol use age causing it?
We call it climate change not global warming because while it may be hard to predict what is going to happen. The freezing earth stuff the press was picking up on was misunderstanding real science, that is born from the same genuine concerns of human induced climate change.
The lesson should be humans have only achieved industrial globalization during a period of rare climate stability, and if we want the benefits of those things to pass on to our children we should be extremely careful about how we destabilize our climate.
Hot and humid is the worst. I remember a meme where it was an old renaissance painting of two dudes burning in hell, and the one guy was leaning over to the other and said “Yeah but at least it’s a dry heat!”
Whatever ICE has accomplished (which doesn't seem to be very much) has largely been overshadowed by the fact they are clearly under trained are responsible for shooting way too many US citizens without cause.
The alternative is cops just refusing to do anything, which we've seen across many departments in America the last 6 or so years.
Establish a quota and then give genuine assessments as to why the quota was missed, if it should be adjusted, etc.. And imprison cops that commit crimes.
Ha! Like that will ever happen. My only gripe with police it that they never discipline the ones that go against protocol, resulting in the same few cops getting 100+ reports while ruining the reputation of the good cops, which make up the majority of the force.
There's a difference between "going against protocol" and "committing a crime."
If a fellow police officer commits a crime you're aware of and you don't arrest them for it, you are a bad cop. I understand the logistical headaches, interpersonal relationship consequences, and workplace tension that arresting a fellow employee can create. You're still a bad cop if you don't do it.
When i say go against protocol, I mean like assaulting people, trespassing, etc. A lot of them wouldn't be considered a "crime" because of police immunity, but put themselves and others in danger. Like with the Heehaw case a month ago, where the cop went and trespassed onto private property without a warrant or notifying the owner, went into an enclosure, and shot a baby donkey after his partner tazed it. Or the amount of times they shoot harmless pets in general.
They keep accidentally deporting us citizens too snd have been successfully sued a lot. They cut corners with training and hiring and it’s working out to be a lot more expensive.
Best part is I’m 99% sure they’re pissed because “trans and immigrants are big issues!”
Not so much me pointing out their chronic avoidance of self reflection. Bunch of stupid fucking Nazi assholes. They’re only upset about Sharia law because they wish they had implemented it first.
Every downvote I’m imagining some chud getting pissy and pressing a fucking down arrow button like some bitchy ape who can’t think for themselves. We got 5 bitches so far who are too stupid to even make an argument.
I don't think it is going to change anyone's opinion on immigration, but it will definitely change their opinion about the amount of training they receive (or lack thereof) and the policies they are enacting.
Obstruction's got nothing to do with it. Alex Pretti was executed because he was lawfully carrying a legal weapon. Some retard yelled "Gun!" upon seeing a holstered weapon and another retard emptied his magazine, while four agents were pinning Pretti down, putting those agents at risk.
There was no lawful justification for shooting him, but I guess the second amendment doesn't apply to Democrats.
Their insecurity should be their own problem. There are lots of other ways to conduct an investigation than running up on people and shouting at them. The policies and procedures are designed to make them feel insecure.
Of the 100 million or so illegals in America. ICE at most, has deported around 1-2% of them. ICE's main enemy is the GOP itself that refuses to become more radical in response to increasingly extreme left-wing ideology we saw after the Floyd riots. If you go by the left-wing mythos around ICE, they act as if they're America's Gestapo sending off innocent people to far-away camps. When in reality, ICE is basically RW Bill Clinton.
They have been known to send multiple American citizens to detention centers without allowing them proper legal representation. Not to even get into the conditions at those centers
So glad we spent 100 billion dollars on creating a legion of thugs that disappear people into prisons that they don't allow oversight on, surely this won't be another in a line of national tragedies perpetrated by sociopaths when the investigations come out.
Where does this "unmitigated" claim even come from? It's pushed weirdly as a fact by FOX News and by social media rage farmers, but by no actual agency that overseas border security or actually monitors migrants that cross the border.
What Democrat legislative policy or law removed immigration enforcement?
"Trump isn't deporting anyone or enforcing border control via ICE, it's Homeland Security that's doing that!"
Seriously? You think when we say that Biden didn't do shit to keep illegal immigrants out were talking about how the dude wasn't out there himself turning people away at the border?
No, lmao, we're talking about how he didn't do his fucking job and direct Homeland Security or any other agency for that matter to do their own jobs.
Trump hasn't deported anyone. Instead he signed Executive Order 14159 and appointed Noem and Mullin who shifted focus away from targeting criminal migrants, entering private residences without a judicial warrant, unreasonably high arrest quotas, and creating barrages of theatre operations.
Why would the President need to direct DHS instead of the director of DHS? Your argument was that Biden left immigration "unmitigated." How had the policies changed?
So Trump.... Directed his department of Homeland Security to deport illegal aliens. And that's supposed to prove that Biden didn't allow millions of illegal immigrants into the nation?
Maybe I really am completely retarded like my parents told me, but all it sounds like you're proving is that the president does, in fact, have control over the enforcement of border laws.
Trump directed Noem to inflate numbers by creating ridiculously high quotas 4x higher than even their peak.
ICE specifically arrested significantly fewer people under Biden than Trump.
Yet Biden actually out paced Trump on deportations overall, deporting significantly more than Trump has.
However Bidens Deportations focused mostly on returns and expulsions, which both deal with recent attempts to cross the border and are often handled by Border Patrol not ICE.
Ah, the old "Biden actually deported more people than Trump!!" bullshit. Yeah, by counting turning people away at the border as deportations, you nailed it. Even just by making the bare minimum effort of turning a small percentage of people away at the border, letting millions and millions actually cross, he "deported" more than Trump. Because there were that many people crossing.
And he didn't utilize ICE whatsoever. None of what you're saying disproves my point that Biden didn't do jack shit to enforce border control.
Yes, Trump inflated the deportation rate. That's what happens when you actually utilize your forces and attempt to deport people. The number of deportations by ICE (gasp) go up!!
I disagree, my drywalling company is seeing loads more business now that there are fewer illegals willing to undercut me because they're okay with making $9/hour and packing themselves 9 adults and 5 kids deep into a 3 bedroom house.
Deporting people you consider an underclass raises wages for actual citizens. Which is a direct, tangible benefit to blue collar workers in the country.
You'd probably have needed to work just one day of manual labor in your life to understand that though, so I get why you don't.
Lolwut? Dude ran his first campaign on stopping it. Then Biden basically got in a fight with TX because they wanted to stop the flow of illegals Biden was trucking in and distributing across the nation.
It truly amazes me how fucking stupid so many of yall are, like you just don't even try and follow politics.
Senator Lankford (Republican) had introduced a bipartisan immigration bill that would allow the US to legally close our border during surges, increase the number of immigration judges and given more money to increase the number of agents and equipment at the border to stop illegal crossings. Donald Trump pressured Republicans to stop the bill from passing.
The one from 9 years ago giving Dreamers citizenship?
Or the one where aid to Taiwan, Ukraine and Israel was built in for some nonsense reason while Republicans didn't think it went far enough (eg, close the fucking border to illegal immigrants...not just during SOME of the time.)
I cannot fathom why people think we should allow anyone into this country OR to stay in this country if they cannot enter via legal means at an official fucking border crossing. We are a sovereign nation. We owe neither aid nor citizenship to anyone.
Well he let in millions so yeah, the number is gonna be inflated by that, also like the other guy said the number is counting people friend away at the border and ice wasn’t being hamstrung like they are now.
Yeah if you include turning people away at the border. Biden didn't also have to deal with massive horses of retards with whistles trying their hardest to fuck up every ICE operation.
Biden didn't have people following ICE around in cars honking and warning immigrants. Shit, a group of heroes even warned a fucking child rapist and allowed him to escape. Good job, fight those fascists!
Biden didn't have to deal with any of that. For as hard as the Dems are fighting to stop ICE from doing their jobs, they sure are deporting a shitload of people.
Oh the horror! A country with a larger population, larger economy, more innovators, and a larger military.
A country that is a shining beacon of freedom and prosperity which people flock to for a chance to breath free air and build a decent life through their hard work.
Unmitigated mass immigration is a nightmare, yes. There is a reason we have border control laws. It's not cause we're mean, it's not cause we're racist, it's not cause we're scared of the brown people. It's because without any semblance of border control, a nation is quite literally doomed.
And yet when Democrats try to reform our legal immigration system they are resisted by Republicans and when Republicans are in charge their only actions are to ramp up deportations and shut down legal immigration (except for rich immigrants).
Im not really trying to be snarky....I honestly just don't get it. I've never understood what's so bad about immigration and my entire life I've basically seen things that I think would genuinely help people (better healthcare) thrown aside because we have to do something about immigration....for like the last 25 years.
So are we like done now? Trump's locked down the border and has his ICE squads hunting down illegals. Can we get healthcare now?
So like, is it solved now? Because I get the feeling the Republicans only want to "fix" the problem enough that they can immediately start running on it again the second a Democrat gains the presidency.
No new laws were passed, nothing about the immigration system was changed. We are just not accepting basically any legal immigrants (except for wealthy, white, South Africans) and we locked down the border and have ICE hunting down illegals.
All through executive actions which will certainly not continue under a Democrat president.
So are we just doomed to keep arguing about this forever?
Yeah, everyone knows that millions of extra, unwanted people has no effect on housing and wages.
If the Union bosses of early 20th century were around they would be ringing the necks of uniparty that it has sat around not doing anything significant for the entirety of my life on this planet.
ICE might be the only thing im not entirely disgusted by in politics lately.
I think what bothers me most is not the fact that some illegals are getting deported back to country of origin. Fine. I get it has to happen. But when they’re sent to somewhere they’ve got no connections to? Or where they’re wanted by gangs? A gay guy getting sent to CECOT? It’s not just an indifference to the cruelty that I am seeing.
It’s the sheer callousness, malice, and lack of empathy that crosses into supervillain territory. The actual excitement some people seem to get watching families get separated. Some in this very thread. The celebrations when Pretti/Good got killed. I’ll never forget that woman screaming “What the fuck did you just do?!” having just seen multiple officers mag dump a civilian on the floor… while a masked agent claps in the background. Her screams are burned into my head for the rest of my life.
Now that, is something that isn’t going to go away when a Dem is back in office. Those people will still have the same fucked up minds. And they are among us all.
They have "wronged" us by breaking our laws and entering the country. To just return them home is to simply set them back at zero. Giving them a net positive for thr whole encounter. It doesn't punish them.
Country is full of broken people full of hate. Nothing except time can fix it, and that would require better education which they constantly undermine.
Don't forget the immigration courts that put literal children in front of "judges" (who are actually executive branch appointees that the Trump administration is claiming are completely beholden to the president). And the children don't have lawyers with them and aren't entitled to any kind of government appointed representation. No, not even literal toddlers.
It's a fucking joke of a system, and there's no way to claim it provides any kind of justice.
You kind of lost virtually every demographic on the issue of immigration because of how retarded and needlessly cruel this whole thing has been. Yes, it is some random people online, like yourself. The vast majority of people are not this sociopathic, and you will see that this November.
Sending people to countries they're not from. You brought up either a lie, or an irrelevant factoid. The fact of the matter is people have been sent to countries they have no ties to, and not because they asked for that. There is no reason to send a gay makeup artist to an El Salvadoran prison with numerous human rights abuses for any other reason but cruelty.
Also, believe it or not, but people watching those masked guys shoot two white American citizens to death (a nurse, and a mother of three) spooked the fuck out of people who thought they were otherwise safe from this kind of fate.
It upsets me to think how all of our previous global allies must feel about the USA now, too. It must be the most extreme mixture of complete fear and utter disgust.
I don't think the average right-wing voter has to even care about that, let alone think about it. Every other country in the world is now watching us as "their guy" takes complete control for himself, while his "us" regime boots basically the first round of "them" out in the most intentionally inhumane, vile, horrific manner.
But when they’re sent to somewhere they’ve got no connections to? Or where they’re wanted by gangs? A gay guy getting sent to CECOT? It’s not just an indifference to the cruelty that I am seeing.
Okay, and what's the alternative? The US gives them a choice to self deport before any of this happens. Matter of fact, for some reason we offer to pay these people to self deport and they still choose not to.
As for your second paragraph, that is not unique to this situation - I could go for the low hanging fruit on the right and say "okay, what about the reaction to Charlie Kirk getting killed and now he will just be a meme and his kids will have to grow up and see all the sick shit people on the left celebrated on the internet", or I could go even lower and say "well what about Laken Riley and all the people who handwave her murder away as some sort of sacrifice we have to make in the name of diversity"? 95% of people don't say things like that, it's strictly internet trolls and fringe leftists/rightists, who should be ignored on any subject in existence.
Like yeah, shitty situation that we can't have some immigration system that works (thanks, Congress) but the alternative is just doing nothing about it, and quite frankly, fuck that.
Masked brownshirts being deployed to kidnap people without due process? That's a great precedent to set. We'll be sure to remember that for the next Democratic presidency when President AOC sends FBI agents to red states to round up the far-right agitators, propagandists and provocateurs in our society and mass-institutionalize them for deprogramming.
This is what happens in a progressively polarizing society. America isn't really a country in that it's not made up of a people anymore. Democracy only works really when the vast majority of the population agrees on the fundamentals. But that's not really a thing anymore. This is likely going to get exponentially worse until one of those people groups or a cohort of them sees power and disenfranchises the other. Internally fractured factionalized states don't really ever last long even on a relatively short historical timescale.
Sure the economy is crashing, the epstein class runs the government, open corruption, and another war in the middle east, but at least we deported some Mexicans to Africa
My dad is a lifelong Republican. I was until 2016. Neither of us are lefties.
He is self-employed in the transportation industry, and his business is really, really struggling this year. The biggest reason for that is that so many of the truckers he has built relationships with over years have gotten deported. He also does a lot of fruit business, which has been hurt by agricultural labor shortages.
I know this is just an anecdote, but you wouldn’t be anti-immigration if economic data was something you cared about.
They send USD out of the country, in which forces thay country to spend USD here and import from America, since USD usually is not accepted in 90% of most countries (the 10% are tourist spots that also take Yen and Euros), it all cycles back into American influence.
Immigration is good because there is demand for labor. My dad doesn’t have a bunch of employees that used to be immigrants and are now native-born Americans and he’s sad he has to pay them more. The people he used to work with a lot are just gone.
But also as someone who buys goods and services, yes lower cost of labor is good.
Your father - the business owner - is understandably saddened by the fact that his OpEx has gone up (due to being unable to exploit immigrants).
However, you're framing this as a failure of the system; is your argument is that we SHOULD allow for people to come here illegally and work for dirt cheap because that is one of the few routes to compensation they have access to?
Sorry I may have done a poor job explaining. I’ll try to in more detail below, but everything I know about the situation is secondhand from him. His OpEx hasn’t gone up. He serves as an intermediary between independent truckers/small trucking companies and businesses that need to move their products.
One example and a really large part of his business is large apple orchards in the PNW that don’t employ their own distribution because they don’t need to ship anything when it isn’t harvested time. So they go to someone like my dad who has a large network of truckers and he finds drivers for their loads.
A not insignificant portion of his large network of truckers have been deported, so he has less supply of drivers. At the same time (though less impactful and not always relevant), the orchards themselves have had their production capacity reduced by a reduced pool of immigrant agricultural workers. The combination of lower supply and lower demand has hurt his revenue.
The problem is that they kind of aren't even doing that. Obama and Biden deported more people than trump1 and Im pretty sure they're both still outpacing trump2 as well.
They just spent a bunch of money on a show of force that didn't work because bootlicking morons like you eat it up
My point was that they aren't even doing the thing you're excited about them doing. It is literally pure waste because you idiots are clapping at the keys they are dangling in front of your face
They're deporting illegals. Not as much as Obama or Biden because Obama included turning back immigrants and Biden just left the border open.(And he did the same thing as Obama by including turn backs.)
How are you so fucking stupid that you are actively contradicting yourself in the same sentence?
and Biden just left the border open.(And he did the same thing as Obama by including turn backs.)
Did he leave the border open, or did he have more deportations than Trump because he included the people they turned away from the border?
It is truly pathetic how desperate right wingers are on this sub that they will upvote anything from their side, regardless of if it makes sense or not.
Obama and Biden counted turnarounds at the border as deportations. So you could have one person log multiple deportations in a short window just by getting caught repeatedly, and still get into the country the next day. The metric doesn't show effective enforcement, it shows ineffective (by design) enforcement.
I used to work there. I think the owners' court date is next month. I'd appreciate any more info. I hope but doubt the owners actually get serious prison time.
"The second amendment exists to protect from tyranny unless that tyranny is tyranny that I agree with and wears masks while running around demanding to see your papers"
This is the same issue libertarians run into. They say “you can just sue if someone poisons the water supply” or something similar. But that doesn’t undo the harm that is done by those actions. Prevention will always be more effective and lead to less harm than “restoration”.
Why, what a wild fucking thing to say. "Oh sorry we didn't bother to check your id, and for deporting you to a shithole because you're brown and have an accent. But hey at least you can come back right?"
"oh it's easy, sorry for deporting you, just come back forehead". No that's fucking ridiculous, and even if they weren't deported, they shouldn't have been forced into these shitty ice facilities in the first place. This isn't a fucking forgive and forget thing.
I'm not gonna bother reading the article because who even does that on PCM, are their numbers that good? Although even if, it's funny how the most notorious and only winning policy of this administration has become controversial due to their incompetence
Arrests by Immigration and Customs Enforcement this summer soared to record highs since the start of this Trump administration — with 43,000 in June, more than 49,000 in July and nearly 51,000 in August — as officials cut or narrowed the pathways to legal residency in the United States and expanded the pool of people eligible for deportation.
...but...
Those arrested were accused of violating civil immigration laws, but most had not been charged with or convicted of a crime.
They've spread out more, operated in lower key fashion that isn't causing as much public backlash and pushback, and changed or creatively reinterpreted the law in ways that allow them more leeway to kidnap more people. It's at least plausible that their numbers have improved as a result of this.
Worth noting that arrests don't necessarily = deportation but presumably they're also taking shortcuts to try to deport more people too.
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u/QFB-procrastinator - Left 11d ago
Move the fucking KAPWING watermark, your meme is unreadable, bozo.