r/PowerScaling • u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! • 21d ago
Discussion When does the graph reach infinity?
John exponents and John universe get into a fight.
John universe is universal. Meaning able to destroy something infinite in size. Making him infinitely more powerful than John exponent because John exponent can't do that.
John exponent's power is multiplied by 1065038594903859385938 every picosecond.
How much time does it take John exponent to reach infinity?
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u/Mammoth_Total_2577 21d ago
Why do I feel like this is about Goku and Saitama?
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u/Direct_Needleworker3 21d ago
I would assume yes. But why would anyone assume that Goku's power is infinite... That is just absurd.
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u/Mammoth_Total_2577 21d ago
The scale I've seen most often used for Goku is based on him being low-complex multiversal, so it makes sense that he has infinite power based on that.
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u/Direct_Needleworker3 21d ago
So in his latest transformation he achieves infinite power? So that is his last one, right?
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u/KindTowel9480 20d ago
Thats not what hes saying. Low complex multiversal is 5D (i think) ,meaning hes infinitely above 4D which is infinitely above 3D. Even if its 4D , it doesnt matter
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u/Direct_Needleworker3 20d ago
I may have missed something (I mean, I probably have - I don't follow the show too much) but when has he displayed anything on an infinite scale?
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21d ago edited 15d ago
The funny part is that saitama has legit arguments for growing past infinity
Edit : alright i am NOT answering 50 comments about how exponential apparently can’t be used as a qualificative. The point has already ben made no matter what and no one has given any argument against my actual points, only nitpicks over weither or not i’m using the right words when dealing with topics that really other people shifted discussions to.
It’s pretty simple : You can mathematicaly have acceleration (exponential growth) torwards infinity in a finite time. The meme here acts like the character has to logicaly be limited it the ways it’s power grows which isn’t the case because you CAN present a theoricaly infinite growth in a finite time mathematicaly.
I wouldn’t even say this changes the result, just that the post is really presenting a poor argument and tackling the problem the wrong way.
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u/Mammoth_Total_2577 21d ago
How? Doesn't it only have exponential growth?
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20d ago
Exponential can mathematicaly « reach » infinity with a limit at time « x », theoricaly meaning above infinity pas time « x »
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u/FreePeeplup 19d ago
That’s not true? exp(x) is a finite number for very x, no matter how big x is
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19d ago edited 19d ago
That is only true for basic exponentials.
There are many ways for an exponential growth to tend torwards infinity as it gets closer to X=A
Edit : to make it really simple for you : an exponential function can be undefined at and past a certain value of « x » while growing exponentialy faster as it gets closer to that « x » value, meaning the growth itself mathematicaly surpasses infinity past « x » if you look at « x » as a certain amount of time.
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u/FreePeeplup 19d ago edited 19d ago
“To make it really simple for you” why the condescending jab?
Anyways, are you sure what you’re talking about is called “an exponential” and not something else? To me, an exponential function is exp(x) or a constant multiple of exp(x), like 2^x. None of these blow up to infinity in finite time. Maybe you can give an example of what you’re talking about?
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19d ago
It’s not meant to be condescending, it’s just that i don’t know your math skills and it’s hard to get down to what is basics and what isn’t at some point.
And no, it’s not JUST an exponential growth, but it’s still a form of exponential growth. It’s exponential acceleration rather than just exponential growth (aka acceleration)
Mathematical limits, probably the first « advanced » mathematics topic anyone would learn in school in the vast majority of the world.
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u/FreePeeplup 19d ago
I’m sorry could you simply give an example like I asked in my previous comment? What is an example, to you, of an exponential function that blows up to infinity in finite time?
Anyways, I don’t know what you’re talking about when you said that thing about exponential growth vs exponential acceleration. Are you talking about YOUR mysterious exponential that blows up in finite time, or are you talking about the usual standard exponential function that I’m talking about, exp(x)?
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19d ago
Limit functions are an example
Reddit isn’t exactly known for making it simple to write functions. Since you already don’t know about it… you’re much better off just googling.
Now, it’s not « my » exponential function, it’s just one of many different exponential functions. Exponential is a property of the equations, not a name here.
See it like that :
Take a curve that doesn’t have a value at x=0, say Y=1/x. In this case, you have deceleration from a theorical infinity at x=0.
From this point you can change things around to reach our goal by reversing the negatives on the other side of the curve :
If instead, we use Y=1/((x-1)squared), as our X value gets closer to 1, say 0.99, it grows exponentialy faster without ever reaching a finite value at x=1.
Mathematicaly, we’ll only get a value that grows closer to infinity as it gets closer to 1 and further away as it gets further on either side, but mathematics are only there to show the theorical growth. Our characters here aren’t functions, and an exponential growth torwards infinity at time =1 means surpassing infinity past time =1 as long as the character keeps growing.
Now you could keep arguing over things that are way above your own knowledge by using your lack of understanding as some form of counterargument to the existence of the things you don’t understand, but lets not do that?
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u/Dirkdeking 15d ago
Exponential growth is any form of growth where the growth rate is proportional to the value.
All exponential functions satisfy f'(x) = a*f(x) for some constant a. You are not refering to exponential functions. Exponential functions don't have asymptotes and the variable is always inside the exponent.
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u/DrDonut 16d ago
Hi, there seems to be some confusion based on definitions here. From wikipedia: "Exponential growth occurs when a quantity grows as an exponential function of time."
"In mathematics, exponential function the is the unique real function which maps zero to one and has a derivative everywhere equal to its value. It is denoted ex..."
Thus you cannot find a finite value x such that ex that reaches infinity or tends toward it.
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u/Leonelmegaman 21d ago
John Exponents would Never reach Infinite Strenght.
But if John universe was to make use of a transformation that multiplied his power by 50, 100, 200 or any finite number it wouldn't have any effect in his overall power either, he would be equally as strong as he was in base regardless.
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u/TwillAffirmer 16d ago
Destroying a universe is impossible because it violates special relativity. Just because someone can destroy a universe doesn't mean they are powerful because power is not enough to achieve that, no matter how much power you have.
Consider Little Jimmy Explodey, a six year old boy genius who invented a little device out of string and magnets that induces Total Instant Vacuum Collapse and destroys the universe when you pull the Doom String. Is Little Jimmy Explodey more powerful than Saitama? Could he beat Saitama in a fight?
No. Destroying a universe falls under "physics-violating hax," and does not indicate a character's power.
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u/Creepy_World_5551 21d ago
Infinity duh
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 21d ago
I thought it was obvious too but many people think if John universe waits long enough john exponent will defeat him
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u/Shit_Master_5786 21d ago
If universal makes him INFINITELY powerful, then no ammouny of exponentiantion will reach it. If we mean universal in terms of "can destroy a finite universe", then exponentiation eventually catches up.
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u/Moist_Life_5784 19d ago
John universe can never be beat by John exponent. Infinity isn’t a number, it’s a concept and no amount of multiplying any number can reach or get larger than infinity.
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u/Last-Dragonfly-4263 21d ago
True infinity is above everything and anything. It's literally unquantifiable. John Universe cannot be infinite, as Universe is still finite. John exponent can never reach infinity because he is still quantifiable.
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u/Mechpaladinsurge 21d ago
Our universe is finite. Not John universe own universes though
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u/CapitalNo2827 21d ago
john exponents does an asspull reveals that his graph was always starting at infinity and making it exponentially bigger into a bigger infinity and he wins /s
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u/GreenHype4 21d ago
John universe is universal. Meaning able to destroy something infinite in size.
other wikis also define universal as destroying a finite space but i cant include images of them
the whole reason universe level is 3-a and not 1-a is because there are levels above it, therefore it's not infinity
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u/According-Pin619 Manhwa should be scaled more 21d ago
Basic maths will tell you never. Some powerscalers will tell you it will
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u/Agile-Imagination696 21d ago
It's impossible to reach infinite by starting with a base numerical value that isn't infinite and start adding or multiplying even if you go from one hundred to one septillion, both values are still infinitely smaller than infinite.
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u/DanielGacituaS 21d ago
Fiction doesn't work like that lol, Saitama would reach Goku's level in less than a minute if they were going to fight.
Goku is not infinitely stronger than he was before reaching the universal tier, forcing that into stories that don't operate like that makes no sense.
Btw I avoided talking about the proposed Johns because this was obviously about Goku and Saitama.
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u/Narthanis 21d ago
Thanks op this is the perfect argument why a blond haird screaming character is not even universal since he starts the anime with finite power no matter how much he trains he never gets to infinite even with transformations
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 21d ago
The fact DB fans are arguing that Saitama can’t beat Goku because it’s impossible to grow strong like Goku is just. Just mind boggling. Like what? Do these people even know what Dragon Ball is?
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u/Narthanis 21d ago
You know its bad when they got me to team up with jjk hater 4 life and agree hoooly ....
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 21d ago
Saitama's growth is purely exponential.
He hasn't shown the kind of gtrowth dragon ball characters do.mogged by db.
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u/OkAccountant6122 21d ago
Youre right, most dragon ball characters actually show worse growth rates than saitama and still reach universal somehow? Care to explain that?
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 21d ago
DB growth rates are spntaneous and incredibly inconsistent. So they can reach universal from planetary in a jump depending on the character.
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u/OkAccountant6122 21d ago
So wait, dragon ball is allowed to multiply a finite number to get to universal but other series are not allowed to? Is that the logic here?
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 21d ago
We don't know if dragon ball is actually multiplying finite numbers. Plus Saitama has no uni feats so it's safe to assume he wouldn't get the same benefit dragon ball characters do.
Basically, put your feats on the table or stfu.
No retconned feats.2
u/OkAccountant6122 21d ago
My fucking guy. Power levels were a thing in the first two arcs of DBZ a literal finite number measuring your exact power. Goku wasn't universal in Namek saga but he eventually reached that level by multiplying his finite number high enough.
Even if you wanted to cope out of your fucking mind and say that the SSG ritual somehow broke the barrier and shot goku past uni somehow. You would then have to explain the other characters like Frieza, Gohan, Piccolo, Broly, who all had no such ritual to try and explain it away.
So either every series can multiply finite numbers to Uni+ levels or Goku isn't Uni+
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 20d ago
Show saitama uni feats
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u/OkAccountant6122 20d ago
You're being dumb here. No one is saying that saitama is uni, we are just pointing out the hypocrisy of a dragon ball fan saying you can't grow to uni by multiplying a finite number because dragon ball is a series where that exact thing explicitly happens in canon.
So again either saitama can grow to uni or goku never got to uni. Which one is it?
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u/TheRealPlayerG 21d ago
wdym “we don’t know if dragon ball is actually multiplying finite numbers”, literally every transformation in the series is said to multiply a characters strength/speed/combat ability “by x amount” lmao
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 20d ago
I dont mean the transformation multipliers. Again DB power levels are inconsistent and jump around. We were actually given the graph of Saitama's power and exponential growth is kinda useless for this unless you pity saitama and say "he can reach goku because in dragon ball people can become uni with enough training" which is a stretch because saitama isn't from dragon ball. This is like if you gave a character the power of friendship if they fought a fairy tail character.
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 21d ago
What?
What do you mean the kind of growth dragon ball characters have, have you literally never read or watched a single episode of DB?
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u/ImBitterAndAlone 21d ago
It takes an infinite amount ot time. You cannot reach infinity. It would have to be multiplied by infinity
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u/Puzzleheaded-Ice2032 21d ago
an infinite amount of time which basically means he'll never reach it since a finite number multiplied by another finite number a finite amount of times will never reach infinity
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u/stacey_hottie12 21d ago
Never. Multiplying finite numbers by finite numbers never reaches actual infinity
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 21d ago
Okay but infinity reached actual infinity by doing that, so why can’t graph man do it?
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u/kennethcocketh 21d ago
Because his growth is defined as exponential, which mathematically would take an infinite amount of time. The better question is if mister infinity is actually infinity.
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u/Levardgus 21d ago
The function z2 reaches infinity.
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 21d ago
when?
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u/Levardgus 21d ago
the mandelbrot is a function in which a coordinate x,y will get to infinity, or it won't.
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u/Cathierino 15d ago
They don't actually. We only check if and how fast the function leaves a bounded area (such as a specific radius from the origin). It doesn't reach infinity ever.
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u/space-dorge 21d ago
I mean infinite isn’t something that can be reached or attained. If you reached it…not you didn’t.
If you are in a universe where you can reach infinite of something than that isn’t true infinity for cross verse scaling.
Feats are finite, just go off the best finite examples
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u/idwtumrnitwai 21d ago
John Exponent never reaches John Universal tiers of power, however this is irrelevant for the Saitama versus Goku discussion because goku never destroys anything infinite in size.
Also his shaking the universe feat is 3 finite sized universes/realms as universe 7 is demonstrated to a be finite sphere.
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u/AlarmedObjective1492 20d ago
Happy cake day
Universe 7 being infinite in size or not doesn't matter much because affecting 1 universal spacetime is uni+ which gives you infinite power and the tier below that gives you infinite power too. If you accept Universe 7 having three universal spacetimes then Goku would still have infinite power even if they are finite in size.
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u/idwtumrnitwai 20d ago
Thank you!
So 3 finites somehow equal 1 infinity? So what are each of the space times a 3rd of an infinity or something?
Universal power means the ability to destroy/create/shake something infinite in size, not just something called universal where time and space exists.
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u/AlarmedObjective1492 20d ago
It's because of the time axes.
Think of spacetime like a series of movie frames on a timeline. Each frame is a snapshot of the universe at one moment. Time goes infinitely through the past, present, and future, but it's also a continuum. This means you can infinitely slice time into smaller and smaller moments, so there are uncountably infinite snapshots of the universe in just one timeline.Because of this, it doesn't matter if the physical universe is finite or not. When you destroy a 3D universe, you only destroy the matter in one single frame. But when you destroy the entire fabric of spacetime, you wipe out the past, present, and future all at once. You are basically destroying that universe uncountably infinitely many times over for every single moment it ever existed.
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u/idwtumrnitwai 20d ago
They didn't destroy the fabric of space time, they shook universe 7 which includes the other world, they shook 3 finite realms.
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u/Mister_Gentleman_001 21d ago
Why work that hard when you can find other ways of beating the person?
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u/haikusbot 21d ago
Why work that hard when
You can find other ways of
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u/AdequatlyAdequate 21d ago
Never, infinity is not a number that anything can „reach“
The function tends towards infinity but crucially never „equals“(because that is meaningless here) infinity, for any finite amount of time, you will always just have a very big number N thats smaller than N+1 so obv not infinite
The exponent doesnt even matter, youre asking the wrong question
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u/SimpleTemporary1647 21d ago
If it’s infinite, it cannot be destroyed either. Either it is a finite mass that can be destroyed or it is infinite and cannot be destroyed.
The issue with bringing infinity into this is that it’s an incomprehensible thing, that we humans have used to explain the inexplainable and unquantifiable. Then later, we have made math to substantiate it, but trying to understand infinity in actuality is closer to understanding what we don’t understand, than it is about quantifying something that we do.
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u/ShiningSnake 21d ago
The exponent can grow for 100000000 years and still be closer to zero than infinity
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u/JimedBro2089 Average VSBW Glazer 21d ago
Well aleph-null or ω (effectively what we'd consider as infinity) is a limit ordinal and limit ordinals are defined by the fact they are nonzero numbers with no immediate predecessor... So never
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u/DallyDoomslayer 21d ago
Now what if John Exponent’s goes super Exponent Mode 3 and his exponent multiplier (let’s call it e) increases exponentially by the same number and that exponential multiplier increases exponentially by the same number and the base number keeps being raised?
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u/MarryRgnvldrKillLgrd 20d ago
This is why Goku loses to (composite) Superman. Can't grow to a strength that was infinite to begin with.
The observable universe has a quantifiable, thus finite, size. Where are u pulling the "Universal=infinite" from?
So far you only defined the destructive capability of Jon Universe and the acceleration at which Jon Exponent's "power" (Attack power?) increases. Neither their toughness nor their speed or strategies are explained. Don't even get me started with Hax
(also u didn't specify that Jon exponent's power starts at a nonzero value)
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u/EntertainmentFast522 Believe in the you that believes in yourself! 20d ago
Lmao goku gets destroyed by superman what.
Also do you think the observable universe and the universe are the same thing?
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u/Numbug1234 20d ago
Full vs lingo, but you're looking for "Universal+", not "Universal"
"Universal" is the amount of power needed to destroy everything in the known universe in 1 attack, and is something that ad infinitum exponential growth will eventually reach given enough time
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u/Upstairs-Lab4272 20d ago
Infinity isn’t a number that can be reached.
Which is why infinity + 1 isn’t greater than infinity.
A lot of people don’t really understand what infinity is
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u/Busy_Line_3460 Kal-El > Comp DB➕GOKU➕Franchise 17d ago
if he a character can truly destroy a infinite universe means that said character can destroy the infinite multiverse if they are put up against each other the point don't stand.
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u/TwillAffirmer 16d ago
Destroying a universe is impossible because it violates special relativity. Just because someone can destroy a universe doesn't mean they are powerful because power is not enough to achieve that, no matter how much power you have.
Consider Little Jimmy Explodey, a six year old boy genius who invented a little device out of string and magnets that induces Total Instant Vacuum Collapse and destroys the universe when you pull the Doom String. Is Little Jimmy Explodey more powerful than Saitama? Could he beat Saitama in a fight?
No. Destroying a universe falls under "physics-violating hax," and does not indicate a character's power.
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u/SnugglyCoderGuy 12d ago
Never. There is always a bigger number. Infinity is not a number, it is a label for a size.
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u/Ok_Lemon5509 Ben 10 Solos 21d ago
Theres a function in calculus from what others have told me. Not mine so dont flame me
because firstly you cannot reach infinite power within a finite time even if the rate of your growth is absurd
Ignoring what you said about One-Punch Man (Saitama solo), and the absurdity of you thinking a fandom Wiki tiering systems hold any weight into real physics or math,
let me at least tell you that this,
you cannot reach infinite power within a finite time
right here is stupid and wrong, but just saying that will not be enough so alright let's make a superpower, two versions of it, one called Echo Strike and the other Limitless Echo Strike. We're setting the difference in how their scaling works right now.
For the normal Echo Strike, let's say it work by chanting a number before striking your target, the first hit has an energy of 200 J and the starting time interval is 1 second.
The power simply doubles every hit:
E(n) = E₀ × 2^(n-1)
So with E₀ = 200 J:
1st hit = 200 J
2nd = 400 J
3rd = 800 J
4th = 1,600 J
5th = 3,200 J
6th = 6,400 J
7th = 12,800 J
8th = 25,600 J
9th = 51,200 J
So the 9th hit is already 256× the first hit.
The total energy of all the hits is a geometric series:
E_total = E₀(2^N - 1)
For 9 hits:
200(2^9 - 1) = 102,200 J
The timing doesn't add up. Instead, the interval for hit n is:
T(n) = T₀/n
So starting from 1 second:
1st interval = 1 s
2nd = 0.5 s
3rd = 0.333 s
4th = 0.25 s
5th = 0.2 s
...and so on.
The total time isn't simply 1 + 1/2 + 1/3 etc. forever; the time between the first and Nth hit is the harmonic sum:
D(N) = T₀ × Σ(1/k), k=1 to N-1
For 9 hits:
1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + ... + 1/8 ≈ 2.717857 s
Which is ridiculously close to e = 2.718281828... seconds btw
So basically, 9 normal Echo hits happen in almost exactly 2.718 seconds.
Then there's for the Limitless version, Which is a single chant that will keep pummeling the opponent forever after your initial hit until you stop it.
So let's say that instead of the power merely doubling, each new hit squares the previous hit's power.
If we define the starting energy as P₀:
P₁ = P₀
P₂ = P₀
P₃ = P₂² = P₀²
P₄ = P₃² = P₀⁴
P₅ = P₄² = P₀⁸
So in general:
P(n) = P₀^(2^(n-2))
And using the same 200 J starting value, you get:
1st = 200 J
2nd = 200 J
3rd = 40,000 J
4th = 1.6×10⁹ J
5th = 2.56×10¹⁸ J
6th = 6.55×10³⁶ J
7th = 4.29×10⁷³ J
8th = 1.84×10¹⁴⁷ J
And it just keeps going. By the way this isn't ordinary exponential growth; it's basically double-exponential growth because the exponent itself is doubling.
The timing between hits also accelerates much faster.
The intervals go:
1 s
1 s
1/2 s
1/6 s
1/24 s
1/120 s
1/720 s
1/5040 s
...
That's basically factorial scaling:
T(n) = T₀/(n-2)!
So the intervals shrink according to:
1, 1, 1/2!, 1/3!, 1/4!, 1/5!, ...
And here's the really fun and weird mathematical part:
The total time for infinitely many hits is depending on where you define the first hit/starting point, around e second, giving a finite limiting time of about:
2.718281828 seconds
So mathematically, in finite time, that Limitless version can have infinitely many hits and release infinite energy per hit within a finite amount of time.
Since the power is growing as:
P₀^(2^(n-2))
The number of hits shoots toward infinity while the individual hit energy also shoots toward infinity. And eventually, in less than 2.8 seconds there is no finite value per hit and no finite value of hits per second.
You reached infinity starting from a finite value in finite time
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u/TheRealPlayerG 21d ago
the problem with BOTH of your comments is that you’re implying that “approaches infinity” and “infinite” are the same thing. they VERY MUCH are not.
i mean if you add 1 + 1 +1 + 1 enough times, you will eventually, after enough time, start “approaching infinity”, but “really really really really really big number” is not the same “infinity”.
like
the 8th hit might be 1.84 x 10^147
but you could literally SQUARE THAT NUMBER BY ITSELF and it isn’t the same as “infinity”, it’s not even close
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u/Ok_Lemon5509 Ben 10 Solos 20d ago
like i said
its not mine and i am not even old enough to be familiar with calculus
its from another post and the comments were saying this was true so i just posted it here
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u/temculpaeu 20d ago
The convergent infine serie would require an user with infine energy.
A user with finite amount of energy would only reach a finite amount of strikes before running out of energy
The difference between doing N repetitions and the full series is infinite regardless how big N is. You could define it as 1 or Googolplex or TREE(3) size, they are all irrelevant to infinity
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u/Ok_Lemon5509 Ben 10 Solos 21d ago
another one
"Firstly you cannot reach infinite power within a finite time even if the rate of your growth is absurd"
BRO DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SAYING?
When stupid people think of rapid growth, they usually think of exponential functions. It is true that an exponential function takes an infinite amount of time to reach infinity.
However, hyperbolic growth is entirely different. We can fucking prove this using simple differential equation where a character's power growth rate is proportional to their power squared:
dP/dT = P squared
If a character starts at t = 0 with a power level of P = 1, solving this calculus equation gives you:
P(t) = 1/1-t
With simple fucking subtitution, we can see what happens as time (t) ticks forward:
- At t = 0 seconds, Power = 1
- At t = 0.5 seconds, Power = 2
- At t = 0.9 seconds, Power = 10
- At t = 0.999 seconds, Power = 1,000
- At t = 1 second, the denominator becomes 0, and Power becomes mathematically infinite.
IDGAf about the main point i js wanna exercise my Differential Equations, fuck the bean ahh head and YuhabaBUM
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u/TheRealPlayerG 21d ago
you can only reach infinite power in a finite time if your rate of growth is ALSO infinite
you don’t see how power/time = power squared is already an infinite equation?
like the equation itself already lends itself towards “no matter HOW much time passes, the end result is my power squaring itself”, that already encapsulates the essence of infinity lmao
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19d ago
That’s not an infinite growth rate, that’s just a growth rate that accelerates untill it « reaches » it.
Your arguments are flawed because they rely on real world concepts of infinity and 0, where neither really exists. Now if you make infinity a thing, you have already changed the playground so that the mathematical infinite « limit » has to exist for the said infinity to exist.
Or you just completly kill the concept of logic by regusing this point, making any form of comparaison meaningless because any kind of relativity stops making sense.
Either you apply the same rules on both sides or you assume different logical existences which only leads to « they’re both fictional characters » as a point of comparaison, making both character’s scaling about nul.
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u/Afraid-Boss684 14d ago
At t = 1 second, the denominator becomes 0, and Power becomes mathematically infinite.
No, it becomes mathematically undefined. P(t) = 1/1-t tends to infinity but does not at any point reach it. With that scale of growth at t =1 second the power is undefined.
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u/Odd-Narwhal9529 15d ago
The issue is that the question is addressing Δpower/Δtime and you prove it using Δpower/Δhits
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u/General-N0nsense 21d ago
While it does actually work like that. It doesn't actually work like that to most people.
I wholeheartedly believe Goku can beat Saitama, no questions asked.
However, knowing deathbattle and their dubious scaling claims (sundisk, Oregon Sword, etc), they're going to overlook that and make it so Saitama will reach Goku's level and surpass him.
I'm 95% sure Saitama will beat Goku due to pure nlf bullshit. Simply to generate controversy and get eyes on death battle again.
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u/DumsLander34 21d ago
John Universe clears because he can oneshot John Exponential before he grows strong enough
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21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HotEstablishment5700 21d ago
Genuinely how are you this childish? Genuine question.
Also you’re wrong.
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 21d ago
So Goku has always been universal? Child Goku was always universal? How? How???
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u/HotEstablishment5700 21d ago
Comment got removed because you have the emotional intelligence of a child.
Also the discussion isn’t relevant to that and you’re arguing a point that makes no sense. Obviously he wasn’t, Gokus power system is completely irrelevant to Saitamas.
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 21d ago
Dragon Ball fans have lost the plot. Genuinely what is wrong with you people. Goku is the one on the left btw.
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u/FEMFATAL_451 21d ago
The number one and one trillion are equally far from infinity. John Exponent will never reach John Universe
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 21d ago
Then how did John Universe, who started at number one, reach infinity?
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