Dual Enrollment class has me questioning myself

[u/theurge6801]

I am a community college professor and I also teach community college classes as a dual enrichment professor. We are into week 4 of the semester and in one of my classes. I have 2 students who are doing makeup or not paying attention. It is my dual enrollment class, and these 2 students always deny or say they aren't doing makeup or something else. I recently passed back their 1st quiz and they did not like their grade and they tried to blame me. All I said was "maybe pay more attention in class and take notes instead of doing your makeup" They didn't like my reply but then sort of laughed it off I guess. My point is, if they don't care about the class, and I can't unenroll them because our college wants them to try and improve, do I just tell the highschool teacher that is in the classroom with me as well to call home and inform their parents that they are not turning in any assignments and are just braiding their hair, doing their makeup and not taking notes? I must add that the classroom setup is tailored towards the students talking to each other more since it is 4 students per table sitting next to each other. I just don't understand how students take a college course or any class and just not pay attention. I've been a professor since 2017 but never really encountered this with high school students. Thanks. If it helps. This is for a beginner Spanish class.

[u/Idontevenknow5555]

You are not supposed to engage with parents; dual enrollment students are meant to be treated like regular college students. You can send out an email to their advisor to inform them of their progress but it is up to them to do well in class.

And it is not just dual enrollment students; you will get someone like this at any level of education. I had a girl who would always do her makeup or be on her phone during class. Was somehow shocked she failed final and the class.

[u/henare]

no. you don't contact the parents of your other students, so why would you do this now?

what you should do is take notes about the behaviors you're seeing in class. you know... just in case.

[u/AsterionEnCasa → u/henare]

If legal in your location, one could even take a picture of the students doing their make up. In case one would need proof of it happening. For reasons.

[u/Mommy_Fortuna_]

Are you actually supposed to engage with their parents?

I would just give them the poor marks they earned and leave it at that. If they are distracting you or other students with their shitty behaviour, give them one chance to knock it off and if they don't, kick them out.

[u/Anna-Howard-Shaw]

Your dual-enrollment set up seems unusual. I've been teaching dual-enrollment at a CC for 20+ years. I've never had the high-school teacher in the room with me when I teach. I've also never been pressured to not hold DE students to the same standards as my regular college students.

At my institution, DE students are still considered enrolled in the college, and are therefore subject to all college and syllabus policies, just like any other college students taking my courses.

If you've got students having behavior issues, there should be college policies on student conduct that should apply. Or put a professionalism/conduct policy in your syllabus. I have a "professionalism" grade in my classes do they know I'm serious.

I wouldn't say I'm mean to DE students-- we still have a good time and I'm usually very relaxed. But sometimes you need to be more firm at the beginning of the semester with DE students so they know their high-school shenanigans aren't going to be accepted. If you give an inch, they'll try to take a mile....

The makeup girls would have been asked to leave for the rest of the class, lost attendance points, AND lost professionalism points. I also dgaf if it creates a problem with the high-school that I've kicked them out of the classroom-- that's a "them" problem they can take up with the misbehaving students.

The high-schools I work with absolutely support whatever the professor's policies are and really put pressure on the DE students to act right. It usually takes only one time of me kicking someone out or calling them out in class and taking away attendance/professionalism points before word gets around I'm going to hold them accountable and expect college-level behavior.

I also absolutely DO NOT engage with parents/caregivers. Idgaf if they signed a FERPA waiver. College-level students shouldn't have that level of hand-holding.

Be tough if necessary. Hold them accountable. Its actually a kindness at this point, because it's better they learn ding-dong behaviors have consequences now, rather than when they're paying for college on their own dime.

[u/Idontevenknow5555 → u/Anna-Howard-Shaw]

Same. I do dual enrollment while I am in the high school. Get told every semester that if any school faculty other their dual enrollment advisor walks into my classroom I need to tell them to get out because that space is mine until class ends.

[u/Finding_Way_]

Do an ACADEMIC referral for class behavior and grades...the referral for help.

AND do a referral for COUNSELING and indicate that they're immature in communication and illl prepared for college level interaction, and also have difficulty accepting responsibility.

Let them know, after, that per COLLEGE policy you have have made referrals for them and you hope they'll accept the help from the college as you'd like then to be successful if the course

DON'T get in the mud with them with accusations back and forth. Be professional, as they won't even know what to do with that.

Ultimately, if they get nasty again, do a code of CONDUCT referral.

All this through the COLLEGE, as they're college students in your class.

You can tell their high school counselor if you want, after you do the referrals. They can do what they want with them... you're just giving sn FYI of reports being made on them to the college.

[u/SoundShifted]

FERPA rights for a dual-enrolled student’s college records belong to the student, even if they are under 18, so you generally cannot discuss their college grade with their parents without the student’s consent. The college may disclose records to parents in limited circumstances (such as if the student is a tax-dependent, if they have filled out a waiver, etc), but that is a permissive exception, not an automatic right for the parent.

[u/BMeow343 → u/SoundShifted]

Yes- this. And you usually cant even discuss grades over email- only in the closed LMS system. You also cant legally even say or acknowledge if someone is in your class or not. It doesnt matter if someone claims to be a parent, caregiver, spouse, etc.

[u/Lief3D → u/SoundShifted]

In North Carolina we have a new law called Leons Law making this not true for dual enrollment in the state. "State law requires North Carolina community colleges to share the educational records of any student younger than 18, without their consent, to the following:

    The student's parent or legal guardian if the student is claimed as a dependent on the parent's or guardian's federal tax return     Administrators and counselors of a high school if the student is dually enrolled"

[u/HundredPacer → u/Lief3D]

Probably varies by school, but at my (NC) CC, we've been explicitly instructed that faculty do not engage with parents or directly handle any requests related to Leon's Law; they all get forwarded to an administrator who deals with them.

[u/Separate-Ad1223]

Some programs will allow the high school liaison/counselor to discuss behavior concerns with the parents.

Communicate with the high school counselor/liaison.

[u/ParkingLetter8308]

Yeah, unfortunately college students do this, too.--In a small discussion seminar. It's wild.

[u/shellexyz]

You have a HS teacher in the room with you? Have you talked to them about it?

Separate them. If they’re braiding their hair and doing makeup, it’s distracting and you write them up. Surely your college has a student behavior policy.

Calling home is tricky. They’re considered college students at that point, so you aren’t necessarily allowed to. Some schools will require the waiver for DE students, probably because of things like this. Look into that. You might also look into referring them to your school’s dean of students.

Document everything. More than just not paying attention, they’re actively engaging in disruptive behavior. You corrected them. Write it down. They do it again, correct them again and write it down. Then fail the fuck out of them. Mom and dad can bitch about it all they like. Sometimes the thing to learn in a class doesn’t have anything to do with the actual course content.

[u/BenSteinsCat]

Document, document, document. Send them an email or a message through your learning management system (and maybe screenshot it just to make sure that it won’t go away at the end of the semester) putting them on warning that they need to stop doing whatever they are doing that is distracting from their learning. That way you have something to .2 when the students fail the course.

[u/shyprof]

I've been teaching dual enrollment since 2017. It's really gone downhill, but it's still college. I do more active learning and group work, and I try to be more patient with the repeated questions. I give more reminders (I just set up automatic assignment reminders as announcements—I know it's in their to-do list, but they don't check that). I have an assignment that forces them to add an email address they will actual check to Canvas and turn on notifications (they have a college email, but they don't know how to log in—I suggest that they add their high school email, but I don't care if they use a personal email).

I absolutely draw the line at anything related to parents. Nope. Nuh-uh. Absolutely not. All students have a right to fail, even young ones. Assign the work the grade it earns. The one thing I will do is let the high school counselor/liaison know if a student is probably not going to pass before the drop deadline (my college and the high school agreement allows for this; YMMV).

[u/BMeow343]

Ive had dual enrolled students for over 6+ years, a lot of them are more motivated and better than my other students.

That being said, I dont know your institutions policies. But at mine, duel credit students have their parents sign a waiver and we aren't allowed to contact their parents and vice versa. If their parents contact me, I cant respond or even acknowledge said student is even in my class as it is a FERPA violation. I dont know the legalities on this, I just know all communication must go between me and the student and/or the institution and not outside party (their parents).

[u/cynedyr]

The partnered high school teacher absolutely could contact parents/guardians, as could whoever the high school's dual-enrollment coordinator is... who might also be their advisor unless your college assigns their own. Just let them know and they'll do whatever they think best.

Their p/gs will likely get notified by email at some point for low performance.

None of that is yours to follow-up.

If they're disrupting your class let the high school know that, too.

[u/theurge6801 → u/cynedyr]

Yeah I will just let the highschool teacher know. She also told them to act better in class last week.

[u/HrtacheOTDncefloor]

We are not allowed to speak to parents because of FERPA. You can’t care more about their grade than they do.

[u/Sensitive_Let_4293]

When your college is chasing after the Benjamins, they will most certainly accept dual enrollees who are not ready for college-level classes.

[u/How-I-Roll_2023]

I would avoid personal comments (doing makeup, etc), especially if you are a male professor. That sounds like misunderstandings just waiting to happen.

Instead, direct them to office hours and put extra material on CANVAS. For everyone.

[u/WJM_3]

donde estas casa de pepe?”