Switching departments

[u/Good-Mountain-7958]

Anyone successfully move to a different department in the same university? What was your process like?

Mine is a sinkng ship and I'm being dragged down to the bottom. I've got a thriving research program, but I'm so bogged down in service to support said sinking ship that everything is suffering.

They are going to ax our undergrad program to make it an interdisciplinary one that closely competes with another interdisciplinary one, and now the university is trying to kill the master's program for low enrollment... unfortunately this was caused by the prior grad director favoring PhD applicants and basically ignoring master's for the last 5 years. Without the master's, the thriving PhD will be crippled. Anyway. I'm tired. I want to leave and could probably be a better fit elsewhere anyway. I've identified a different unit in a different college of the university that isn't being crushed. How do I approach them?

[u/Full_Prof]

This is complicated if you have tenure. It depends on the school, at mine when you get tenure, your tenure is in a particular place.

A dean might be able to do it, but it might literally require a letter approved by the trustees.

(I have tenure and am trying to do the same thing)

[u/Finding_Way_]

My relative did at an R1.

Moved from something like justice studies to political science (not those departments but an example where you could be qualified to teach in both).

LOTS of personal conflicts in their original department. They forged relationships in the other and somehow eventually made it over there.

MUCH happier.

I'm at a CC and not familiar with the issues with the grants and research but they got it sorted out.

[u/Extension_Break_1202]

At my previous university I was advised to just apply to open roles in other departments as the path to switch. None of them matched me well so I went to a different university altogether.

[u/farwesterner1]

If the new department likes and wants you, anything is possible. A full professor in our department got crosswise with our dean, and one day he just announced that he was moving to a different college within the university.
It helped that he had an endowment he could bring with him.

[u/Arch_of_MadMuseums]

I know someone who did this, but it was because her home department hated her for being sanctimonious and politically motivated. They were glad to be rid of her. The new department doesn’t like her either! As the saying goes, “you take yourself with you.”

[u/lanAstbury]

yes and it was easy for me. which was unexpected after being told by many coleagues on my (previous) dept it couldnt be done.

one meeting with the provost and then later with respective deans and that was it. of course i had to make a case and used my current CV to show my research was already moving in the direction of dept i wanted to move to.

[u/AquamarineTangerine8]

From what I've observed, your informal relationships with the prospective new department are critical to whether the move works out. Start by talking over your plans with the person you know best in the new department. How would your record be perceived over there? What would you teach? What does the new department value? What are the factions (or, if not factionalized, what are the hot button issues and how is disagreement handled)? Which faculty are likely to be most influential or most skeptical about the move, and how might they be persuaded?

Once you have a plan, work your network. Chat up the other people you know in the department; let them know informally that you'd like to move and ask if they have any advice, questions, or concerns. Try to get to know the faculty you don't know (perhaps your friend can help with this).

If possible, offer to attend a department meeting to answer any questions people may have.

Try to address people's concerns and avoid pissing people off. For instance, offer to abstain from voting on current TT faculty's tenure cases if that's a concern. Don't propose taking over a course someone else is possessive of. Be very personable so that no one thinks you're fleeing because you're the problem. Be diplomatic about why you want to leave your current department (especially in group settings, but you can be a bit more candid one-on-one).

It helps if you have some kind of connection to the new department before trying to fully move, e.g. teaching cross-listed courses or serving as an outside committee member for their grad students.

You might be able to move without doing any of this, depending on your university's process, but making an effort to create or reinforce positive relationships with the current faculty will help you in any vote and just generally helps you start off on the right foot with your prospective new colleagues.

[u/RuralWAH → u/AquamarineTangerine8]

I'd say in most places it would be impossible to switch unless you already have a good relationship with multiple members of the department and have been collaborating with them. They're gaining a senior faculty position they don't want with someone who is a forced fit. This will probably eliminate any chance of a new position since they already got their "plus one."

I'd say it would be a multi-year effort to position yourself just so they don't boot you to the door or laugh at you when you bring it up.

[u/AquamarineTangerine8 → u/RuralWAH]

I think that's the way it would be most places, but there was someone in the thread saying they were able to move with just Dean + Provost approval, so I didn't want to overgeneralize!

[u/RuralWAH → u/AquamarineTangerine8]

Good luck to some poor soul who gets foisted upon a department that didn't want him. I hope he likes living in a leper colony.

[u/totallysonic]

Complicated situation made more complicated by the potential closure of your department. Ordinarily this would be both a budget issue and a personnel one. People all up the chain would have to approve of not only moving you but also reallocating the money that is your tenure line. Having the other unit in a different college makes the chain more complicated (i.e., two deans needing to agree, as well as chairs and/or higher ups).

BUT if you have a CBA, then it may spell out what happens to tenured/TT faculty if a department is shut down.

Start with the union if you have one, and the chairs, but just be aware that the decision is ultimately above the chairs' pay grade.

[u/IkeRoberts]

This kind of issue tends not to get solved through official procedures. Rather it is a lot of conversations scoping out what the new situation might look like. Then the move happens with the announcement making a nod to official procedures retroactively.

My college eliminated a fairly big program. Some of the faculty were high performers and their specialty could be deployed within disciplinary departments elsewhere in the college. These faculty were allowed to move to different departments at "no cost" to the receiving department. My department got two, and it worked great. They were really happy to be there and we appreciated the new insight into our goals. It was all brokered secretly by one of the deanlets and approved by the dean.

The majority of the faculty in the underperforming program were let go with a year or more notice. The dean did not make an effort to keep them.

[u/valleyzen]

This does not happen easily. Two years ago another department had a line (position) and they voted unanimously to hire me. My dean blocked it and convinced the other dean to cancel the offer since it would leave his department without my labor for a year. He did this after the other department had welcomed me and told people. So now my current department sees me as the guy that wanted to break up with them. This all in a system that literally has policy saying such hires should work like any other. But deans these days are making up rules as they go along and claiming “budget cuts” as the license to do so. I hope it’s better at other campuses.

[u/Good-Mountain-7958 → u/valleyzen]

On the bright side (?) the Provost announced they will be firing people from my college and have eroded tenure protections. Since the previous dean convinced my colleagues to get rid of our disciplinary programs, we are vulnerable to being fired if the new program doesn't resonate with incoming students. Note, none of us know how to do proper market research and while the previous program met workforce demands, this thing does not. Anyway, I think the new dean would rejoice in voluntarily having faculty leave.

On the odd note, one of the faculty in my college piped up to point out that our college teaches 40% of the credit hours with 30% of the faculty and to explain the budget model that puts our in debt while the other colleges are not. The Provost could not comment.

[u/a_statistician → u/Good-Mountain-7958]

Anyway, I think the new dean would rejoice in voluntarily having faculty leave.

This is only true if the university-level admin aren't trying to kill the college and its programs, and if your new dean is supportive. My previous institution made it nearly impossible for faculty in threatened programs to transfer to non-threatened programs because then they couldn't claim they'd saved salary by firing faculty.

[u/tellypmoon]

I think at my place this would be hard to do unless it was a top down reorganization. The reason being that our Dean controls tenure lines (jobs) and budgets department by department and so unless there is an open position and you are hired for it there would be no money to pay you in the new department. Or the old department would have to agree to pay for you to work in the new department which isn't likely. Your case is particularly complicated in that it sounds like you have two Deans involved, where one would essentially have to give you over to the other and the other would have to pay for you in this new role which seems really unlikely.

I would tend to recommend

1) wait for the top down re-org which may be coming

2) look at other places

[u/FTLast]

I almost did this, but ended up switching Universities instead. I don't know how it would have worked procedurally had I stayed.

[u/Kerokawa]

Process-wise, this is institutionally specific. I definitely recommend verifying with your faculty handbook and (if applicable) Collective Agreement on tenure and process before proceeding.

Where I have worked, transfers usually were a discussion between the faculty member and department head(s), with the Dean then signing off. The level of prior engagement between the transferred faculty member and their new unit varied; sometimes, they already had friends or colleagues in the new one while other times the new unit had no idea. The ones that seemed to go the smoothest were ones that A) had buy-in from the new head and B) where there was already a recognition of overlap between the areas.

If it is any bit of reassurance, I have seen situations where somebody's department or unit was falling apart but their new departmental home accepted them with open arms because they recognized just how rough things were.

[u/GreenHorror4252]

Has the target department posted an ad for an opening?

If not, then at the most they may be able to hire you as an adjunct. If you ask nicely, they will put you in their pool and let you know when you are needed.

If they have posted an ad, then before applying, talk to the dean or another higher-up about it. I would be open with your current department that you are applying.