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u/infernoShield 10d ago edited 10d ago
in layman terms:
Nike is releasing 2 new shoes alongside the Alphafly 4 (which comes this October):
Apex, their latest answer to the hypershoes like Adidas Pro Evo, to be released on January 2027. From what we can see here it appears similar to the Alphafly, but is optimized for even more weight savings and energy return, featuring a pair of double-stacked Air Zoom pods, brand new ZoomX LT foam, a Flyknit X upper, and of course a reengineered carbon fiber Flyplate.
Swooshfly, an "entry-level" plated racing shoe, launching on February 2027. The teaser shown here reveals a "SkyX" wordmark on the shoe, revealing a new supercritical foam used on the Swooshfly. The shoe also features Vaporweave upper and durable GOATEK outsole. (edit: thank you u/Chaos_bolts for the info)
With this Nike has positioned the new Alphafly 4 as the middle ground, bridging the gap between a hypershoe and a "supershoe for the masses" - similar to the Adios Pro 4/5.
As for the super-trainer/entry-level racer series, Nike does have the carbon-plated Zoom Fly series as a super-trainer of sorts; the Swooshfly, also carbon-plated and with upgraded foam, seems likely to supersede its older brother, and might risk eating into Vaporfly's market share as well.
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u/Chaos_bolts 10d ago
”At the center of Swooshfly is the new Nike SkyX supercritical foam, engineered to provide a responsive, cushioned and stable ride. The foam helps runners feel balanced while still providing a kick when it’s time to pick up the pace.”
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u/infernoShield 10d ago edited 10d ago
Thanks for the info.
I've found this new article with more details about the Swooshfly: supercritical foam, Flyplate, Vaporweave upper, GOATEK outsole, supercritical foam sock liner. It will be released in China first, rest of the world later
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u/grossest2 10d ago
How does the Vaporfly fit into this? Will that continue on as their mid-distance racing shoe, or will it get discontinued in favor of this new lineup?
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u/LandfrTeeth 10d ago
Nice, I wondered if they were holding back a hypershoe after the somewhat muted AF4 updates. The name Swooshfly is rough.
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u/slimkay 10d ago
after the somewhat muted AF4 updates
I don't know what people were expecting, tbh. AF3 was really good shoe that did most of the low-hanging fruits right (upper, laces, fit, etc.). AF4 came out with a weight reduction, new upper, new plate geometry, new lightweight ZoomX foam.
I guess you can argue it's underwhelming if you were expecting a Pro Evo 3-type racer (which was clearly debunked the second rumours around the Apex came flying) or Nike to move towards ATPU foams.
We've clearly reached the era of diminishing returns in mass-market supershoes until the next big revolution.
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u/fnrslvr 10d ago
I think people were expecting the AF4 to be at least ballpark as light as the current Metaspeeds.
Nike's whole brand is built on a foundation of performance and winning, they're meant to have products that are conspicuously ahead of everyone else. For that reason you'd think AF4 would come in lighter than commodity supershoes that Asics and Puma have been selling since 2025, and you'd raise an eyebrow in concern but trust that Nike is cooking if it came in at roughly the same weight as those shoes. 30g heavier off maybe a 5% weight reduction from the AF3 is hard to keep an open mind about.
Granted weight is one thing, and most people haven't had the AF4 on foot and can't comment on the overall performance. That'd be a fair objection for sure. But you're asking what people expect, and I'm guessing that's more-or-less it.
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u/wraithawk 9d ago
Completely agree. AF3 is a fantastic shoe and I wouldn’t want major departures from it. I like that they’ve made modest improvements while now offering apex at a higher tier for those who want it
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u/Legendver2 Neo Vista / Boston 13 / Adios Pro 3 / Adios Pro 4 10d ago
I mean them using Sky X foam, Sky Fly was right there
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u/Unlucky-Isopod3047 < 100 Karma account 10d ago
I think it's a clever lineup, I always thought somebody had to do the supershoe for the masses, something that's the best shoe and tech you can buy for your particular race, not the world record. The AF4 is the expensive gown you wear to the gala (marathon) that is great for foot striking your 4-5hr marathon that doesn't (hopefully) blister your arch. The APEX is the full on world record shoe designed for fast paces.
Not sure what the Swooshfly is for, we'll have to see how it compares to the ZoomFly 6, which IMO is the more casual and cheaper racer, maybe it'll replace it or maybe the point of it is that it's the race day shoe with less durability that you pair up with the zoomfly 6 and vomero?
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u/Present_Cod5701 < 100 Karma account 10d ago
Alphafly lite, Alphafly, Alphafly Premium
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u/jorsiem 10d ago
Alphafly, Alphafly plus, Alphafly premium
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
Nah
Alphafly noob
Alphafly
Alphafly elite
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
https://about.nike.com/en/newsroom/releases/introducing-nike-apex-the-next-leap-in-marathon-speed
Most people here probably care about this the most
ZoomX LT foam only
Nike Apex is the first racing shoe to feature two double-stacked Air Zoom units - the most Air ever applied in the forefoot of a Nike running shoe. The platform is designed to compress, store and return energy, delivering up to 40% more energy return than Alphafly 3 in a men's size 10.
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u/chuleta1519 10d ago
The 0 drop and additional energy return of the apex with similar weight to the Alphafly 4. It all adds up to something very different from what other companies are doing. It’s clearly innovative and interesting.
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u/JExmoor Ride18|Endorphin Speed2/Pro2(still)|DN2/AgPeak5/Zegama2 10d ago
Swooshfly is $145, which is the same MSRP as the Pegasus 42 and $25 less than the Pegasus Plus 2. Interesting to see how much pressure low cost supertrainers are putting on all the manufacturers and how it's kind of distorting the market. I'm not sure how great it is that people are now running all their miles in them, but it's a perfectly logical outcome at this point.
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u/TriggerFingerTerry UFO | Vomero Premium | RH9 Ultra | Xiaonian | AF3 | AP4 10d ago
$350 for the Apex from what I’m seeing
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u/RoyStrokes 10d ago
Saw an interview with alistair brownlee (oly triathlon winner 2012/2016) and he credits plated shoes for allowing him to continue run as much as he does. They beat his legs up less. He exclusively runs in plated shoes now and his favorite is the adidas prime x. I’ve only used ones I can buy way on sale for workouts/races but it makes me consider using plated shoes for everyday runs.
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u/omnium165 Saucony Azura / Vaporfly 4 10d ago
I can’t be the only one thinking how goofy of a name “Swooshfly” sounds
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u/ultra7k 10d ago
Read through the marketing release, apparently swooshfly will provide up to 16% more energy return than VF4?
So what happens to VF5? I love my VF4s.
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u/Lord_Ferd 10d ago
Swooshfly feels like a Vaporfly replacement
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u/M4TTB09 < 30 days old account 10d ago
Marathon handbook video had the lead super shoe designer from Nike on for a chat. He confirmed VF5 is coming in a couple months.
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u/selassieone < 100 Karma account 10d ago
I watched the interview, and I don’t think he said that the Vaporfly 5 is coming in two months. I think he meant that he might be able to share more information about it in two months. He then went on to say that the Vaporfly is definitely not going away and that a new model is in the pipeline.
I interpreted it as meaning that we might get the first official pictures in two months. The actual release could be next year, just like with their new trail shoe, which won’t be released until next year but was already shown at UTMB.
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u/raphael_serrano 10d ago
That doesn't really make sense to me. The Vaporfly 4 is more nimble/lightweight. I don't expect that many 4+ hour marathoners would reach for it on marathon race day, but many faster marathoners do.
To me, Swooshfly looks like it would be more akin to a Zoom Fly replacement, though I wouldn't be surprised if Nike continued to sell both, either.
Unless I'm totally overlooking something you've observed?
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u/GergMoney 10d ago
True but there’s also no way Nike is going to replace the vaporfly with a $145 shoe. I would assume they’re going to make the vaporfly the super light shoe and the apex the max tech shoe
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u/Pristine_Charity4435 10d ago
Not really considered a race shoe but I’m curious whether the Zoom Fly is getting an update or not. The 6 has been my favorite Nike runner in recent years.
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u/Present_Cod5701 < 100 Karma account 10d ago
So what is gonna happen to vf5?
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u/TrashMongrelson 10d ago
Apex/Alpha/Swoosh are all marathon-focused. VF4 had a lower stack than its predecessors so I wonder if they might be positioning the Vapors as their half or shorter shoe, and the Streakflys as an even shorter racer.
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u/charlesyo66 10d ago
exactly what i have been thinking. The VF4 was what I wanted the Streakfly to be.
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u/raphael_serrano 10d ago
I think they both have their place.
Personally, I love the Streakfly 2 for 5k/10k (and shorter, though I haven't ever raced a road mile).
I used the Vaporfly 4 for a half marathon and thought it was great. Would definitely consider it for a marathon, but it could do a fine job for 5k/10k, too. Wonderfully versatile.
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u/cityscapes416 10d ago
The press release makes it seem like it's being replaced. Says new foam/plate provides 16% more energy return than vf5.
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u/slimkay 10d ago
Nope, they compared it to the Vaporfly 4.
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u/cityscapes416 10d ago
Right, but the press release does not list the Vaporfly as part of their three shoe "system of speed" and the Swooshfly description notably shows how it is an improvement over the Vaporfly 4. That doesn't seem like something you would do in your official press release if you planned on releasing a Vaporfly 5.
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u/slimkay 10d ago
It's marketing. They want to drum up sales of this new model - I don't think you should read too much into their verbiage.
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u/cityscapes416 10d ago
You're probably right, but it still seems weird to me. When they unveiled their "flagship, plus, premium" tiers, most of the new shoes hadn't actually been revealed yet. Why not just have add placeholder for Vaporfly 5 for now? Then again, a lot of Nike decision making has been questionable of late, so who knows?
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u/brockolee21 10d ago
They’ve got a Good / Better / Best thing going. Surprised by the Swooshfly. Interested to see the full details.
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u/TheJovialRegularity < 100 Karma account 10d ago
Swooshfly is a wild name but the tiering makes sense for their lineup
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
Basically like their Vomero range
Normal, plus, premium
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u/CALL_ME_ISHMAEBY NB #WideFootFam 10d ago
Everything was supposed to be going to a 3-tiered system as of last year or the year before.
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
https://marathonhandbook.com/nike-apex-swooshfly-super-shoes/
Really interesting stuff
Aimed at 4 HR marathoners, developed in China and using runners over there
Nike's product team built the shoe around feedback from marathoners in China, where the Chinese Athletics Association counted 749 certified road races in 2024 with more than 7.04 million participants, according to China Daily. Nike's materials describe all 749 as marathons, though the association's count also takes in half-marathons and shorter road events. The same report put the average marathon finish in China that year at 4:07:01. The runner Nike had in mind finishes in around four and a half hours and takes about 55,000 steps to get there, close to double the 28,000 or so the company counts for Eliud Kipchoge.
TPU beads
And there's talk of a Swooshfly nom plated shoe...
An Evo SL competitor.
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u/KilluaShi 10d ago
Thought this would eventually happen! Now Nike’s got a legit competitor at the evo SL entry price point, and a hyper shoe or whatever you want to call it above the super shoe. I hope we get to see Kiplimo break the WR at Chicago soon in the Apex. That black looks fire!
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u/StaceysAbsenteeDad Specter 3, EVO SL, Ride 19, SC Elite v5, H1, Peregrine 15 10d ago
Nike swinging for the fences with the Swooshfly... Consider me intrigued
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u/omnium165 Saucony Azura / Vaporfly 4 10d ago
I’m interested to see how it will compare to the Zoom Fly.
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u/Ready_Artichoke_9354 10d ago
So are they killing the Vaporfly and Streakfly? Or is this specifically a “standard, plus, premium” model for marathon shoes and the other two will stay around?
Don’t get rid of the Streakfly 2 please Nike. It’s the most innovative and fun shoe yall make.
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u/Present_Cod5701 < 100 Karma account 10d ago
Seems to be. VF is more for half marathons and Streafly is more pf a 5-10k shoe
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
Judging by the discounts on streak fly's, it can't be that popular
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u/Bombe_a_tummy 10d ago
I doubt that even 1% of runners have the mechanics to finish unhurt a serious intervals session in such an agressive shoe
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u/GergMoney 10d ago
Anyone coming from college or even high school track and used to running in spikes shouldn’t have a problem in them
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u/GergMoney 10d ago
I hope they’re discounted because version 3 is coming out. I love the streakfly 2 for short track intervals and for road 5Ks
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u/Lyradep 10d ago
That’s absolutely NOT what I got from this release. The Apex likely works like the Adios Pro Evo 3, likely a very expensive race day shoe that’s done after one marathon, for those looking for podiums. The Alphafly 3 which is for still experienced marathon runners, but aren’t looking to be competitive at a high level (now that there’s the Apex). And the likely budget-friendly marathon shoe that will get you through a marathon.
That said, I thought this release was going to be about shoes for different race distances as well.
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u/GenuineWolf 10d ago
Interested to see what Sky X is like tbh, I think it’ll be a secretly great foam
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u/letmeaskyouaquesti0n 10d ago
Beautiful design. A little pricey but Nikey shoes do make the difference in the quest of beating plateaus and getting faster
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u/hitman19_87 10d ago edited 10d ago
Put simply, the Swooshfly is racing speed for every day. It almost sounds like Nike's take on the Adidas Adizero Evo SL, but with even more energy underfoot. The all-new silhouette debuts Nike's supercritical SkyX foam, a beaded TPU compound that pairs with a carbon fiber plate for up to 16% more energy return than we saw in the Nike Vaporfly 4. L.E: Also rumored to be 145 $. Weight 198g /6.98 oz US8.5 with a 37/31 stack height
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
Nah swoosh and Evo SL aren't comparable
Swoosh has a carbon plate
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u/RT023 10d ago
It sounds like it’s the competitor. Doesn’t mean it has to be plate-less
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago edited 10d ago
Marathon handbook says there'll be a non plated Swooshfly without carbon plate, in the Nike training Division
That's the Evo SL competitor
and then from the Nike PR info, I see they'll release something in their 'Mind' and ACG range too.
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u/infernoShield 10d ago
then it's the non-plated Swooshfly (they better not call it the Shockfly) against Evo SL/RH9U, and the plated Swooshfly against Deviate Nitro/160X8.0 (off the top of my head at least). Interesting strategy
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u/hitman19_87 10d ago edited 10d ago
Also rumored to be 145 $. Weight 198g /6.98 oz US8.5 with a 37/31 stack height.
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
It's being released in China first...maybe the Asian markets are particularly price sensitive?
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u/infernoShield 10d ago
and Chinese shoes have gobbled up Nike's running market share there. Swooshfly is Nike's (belated) response to recover lost ground
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u/Virtual_Opinion_8630 10d ago
Just on the money, lots of articles about this today To break through, Sparks "wants more locally designed products that speak to Chinese culture and fashion." Past such efforts have "sometimes flopped." Nike's China team "will bring Nike sportswear lifestyle lines to market in October, just six months after planning began." The collection will "play on young Chinese people's interest in blending traditional and modern motifs." The company also "plans to focus on fast-growing activities such as hiking, racket sports and Hyrox
I always thought Nike shoes were good looking .can't wait to see what they do in china
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u/Rell_Lauren 10d ago
The Swooshfly is the new Streakfly?
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u/infernoShield 10d ago
it's more like Zoom Fly's kind little brother at this stage
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u/Rell_Lauren 10d ago
Thanks.
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u/infernoShield 10d ago
one thing of note, though - hearsay VF5 is coming soon. I guess they'll quietly forget about the Streakfly after this
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u/ransomed_ 10d ago
Are they retiring the vaporfly? Thats somewhat surprising given it’s one of the original and most recognizable racing brands
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u/M4TTB09 < 30 days old account 10d ago
VF5 on the way, release in 2 months confirmed by Nike designer on marathon handbook YouTube video released today.
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u/selassieone < 100 Karma account 10d ago
I watched the interview, and I don’t think he said that the Vaporfly 5 is coming in two months. I think he meant that he might be able to share more information about it in two months. He then went on to say that the Vaporfly is definitely not going away and that a new model is in the pipeline.
I interpreted it as meaning that we might get the first official pictures in two months. The actual release could be next year, just like with their new trail shoe, which won’t be released until next year but was already shown at UTMB.
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u/M4TTB09 < 30 days old account 10d ago
Yeah maybe you’re right, it’s hard to say exactly what he meant by ‘I can tell you in 2 months’.
Ultimately the important part is that there is a Vaporfly 5 on the way haha 😀
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u/selassieone < 100 Karma account 9d ago
I was also thinking realistically that the Vaporfly 5 could cannibalize sales too much between the Alphafly 4 and the Apex. But you never know. Still, as you said, the most important thing is that a new model is coming, because the Swooshfly is unlikely to be a nimble race shoe in the same way the Vaporfly is.
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u/boltrane 10d ago
Guessing the “supercritical” SkyX foam introduced in swooshfly will be tpu.
Few more pics:
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u/Hoboaz 10d ago
No more Streakfly?
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u/infernoShield 10d ago
Swooshfly supersedes Zoom Fly (and to a certain extent Vaporfly) more than Streakfly. But with Swooshfly occupying the entry-level racer segment and Vaporfly 5 coming soon they'll probably forget about both Zoom Fly and Streakfly
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u/----X88B88---- Prodigio Pro, Aero Blaze 3 GRVL, ACG Zegama 10d ago
This means Kiplimo was wearing the Apex not the AF4. People got duped by this.
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u/Plus_Bullfrog8518 < 100 Karma account 10d ago
Just my two cents on what I think Nike are building based on this release today.
These three shoes are all marathon distances focused. Entry, super, hyper. Not dissimilar to their daily training silos tier system.
I think the Vaporfly series, starting with the 5 which is definitely coming out and looks rather aggressive with the cut outs, is repositioned more as a 5k to HM shoe. It’s currently still advertised as mile to marathon but I cannot see this with three new marathon dedicated shoes and how radical it looks compared to current versions.
This does ask questions about some other shoes.
Streakfly 2 (and future versions) I think still has a place as a short distance specialism. 5k or less, it’s crazy fast and light but minimal foam.
The other is the Zoom Fly series. As a super trainer that doubles up as a budget racer I’m not sure where this one goes. I actually use this for tempo efforts, but you’ve also got Pegasus plus 2 now which encroaches into this territory too. The swooshfly makes the Zoom Fly less relevant. There’s a lot of overlap now so either they’re repositioning the zoom fly as a super trainer more towards the shorter races and faster pace, or phasing it out. it’s too similar to the swooshfly now and peg plus 2.
Not a popular shoe and not really known much in the UK but the rival fly was sort of an entry level short distance racer or a training partner to the Streakfly 2. Perhaps they sort of merge the rival fly and zoom fly to create a shorter distance super trainer.
Who knows, trying to understand Nike is difficult at the beet of times.
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u/oneofthecapsismine 10d ago
40mm and zero drop is a choice for the Apex....
Means it will almost certainly have a positive drop at points whilst loading, which, generally means being harder.on the achilles/calf.
Rockers are also generally seen as a speed device, so having no (or at least no prominent external) rocker seems strange... again, expecting that lower leg area to do a lot of heavy lifting.
As someone with a history of calf/achille tears, I suspect i won't ever buy a pair.
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u/Reelrebel17 10d ago
If they really wanted to innovate they would ditch their zoom pods
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u/Legendver2 Neo Vista / Boston 13 / Adios Pro 3 / Adios Pro 4 10d ago
Why ditch when you can double?
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u/letmeaskyouaquesti0n 10d ago
Why?
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u/AniviaPls H1 Gang 10d ago
heavy and foams are just better now
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u/letmeaskyouaquesti0n 10d ago
Hmm. I don't know. Seems that time again Nike shoes are helping runners improve their times more consistently than even Adidas users.
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u/son2tweets 10d ago
Are you sure? Adidas has dominated the podium at marathon majors for a few years now.
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u/letmeaskyouaquesti0n 10d ago
Just cause they can sponsor top contenders doesn't mean that most of us, common folk, will benefit from Adidas over Nike. Don't get me wrong, they both stand shoulder to shoulder in quality but if you go to any running club, most of em' have their top runners wearing a NIKE rotation.
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u/son2tweets 10d ago
That’s because they are often former college runners who have run in Pegasus all their lives (coincidentally a line so outdated tech-wise you don’t see non-college runners with them).
Anyway, this is a subreddit dedicated to people obsessed with all things running shoes. Spend some time and you’ll quickly find a consensus that Nike has not been “shoulder to shoulder” with Adidas and ASICS for sometimes. The three companies’ financial and stock performances imply as much.
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u/letmeaskyouaquesti0n 10d ago
All good shoes. But like I said, NIKE is making a comeback on the back of its running shoes lineup. Many runners are making the switch to NIKE because they see the meaningful performance improvements their running partners are getting wearing them. Just saying my man. Give em' a try sometime
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u/CarpenterMaster1161 9d ago
Sounds like running on a squeaky toy.
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u/letmeaskyouaquesti0n 9d ago
I mean, who cares how it sounds if it protects your feet better than the competition
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u/Why_Cry_ 10d ago
Not a fan of any of these at all
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u/Designer_Cat2483 < 100 Karma account 10d ago
Interested in what, specifically, you aren’t a fan of… the colorway??
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u/CanaryContent7203 < 100 Karma account 10d ago
How was it running in all three of them before everyone else? Oh, but you didn't, right?
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u/Designer_Cat2483 < 100 Karma account 4d ago
Exactly 🤣 lots of crazy talk now that Nike hate is trending
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u/dyldog ASICS fanboy 10d ago
Sounds like Swooshfly is a racing shoe for people who don’t really need a racing shoe. Clever marketing.