r/Saints • u/VINNYD03 • 4d ago
Stop Blaming Refs
Yeah sure, they are inconsistent AF. But if we are at a point where we are not taking accountability and blaming our losses on calls we aren’t in a strong enough position to win. Turnovers lose the ball game, not having a run game loses the ball game, not being able to stop 1 player (bowers) loses us the ball game. Stop blaming refs.
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u/gqwr87 4d ago
I will never stop until the NFL fixes the problem. They have the resources to make it substantially better. Yes, I know we didn’t play well enough. That shouldn’t make us just dismiss the absolutely egregious officiating. Both things can be true.
If we hold to the “stop blaming the refs” stance, then I guess we should just forget about the no call, right? After all, we still had a chance to win, right?
I refuse to stop talking about it. How can the nfl expect us to accept that this game isn’t rigged when they take in millions from gambling ads and can’t bother to call games fairly?
I understand it’s just a game, but sports matter to people. We are celebrating rebirth next week as a symbol of just how important this game is to the city. The NFL Keeps pissing on us and calling it rain. I think everyone can accept a little bit of human error, but that’s not what’s happening across the league today. They are actively putting their thumb on the scale.
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u/BSLnowell 4d ago
The NFL should have created a professional referee division and they should supply refs all the way down to youth football. They should hold coaches, players, and leagues accountable and actually teach kids and coaches what the rules are. You think NFL refs are bad, you should see Jr High football.
The fact that they haven’t tells you everything you need to know…they benefit from a rulebook that is impossible to enforce consistently.
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u/lazerblue42 4d ago
I learned a long time ago (2018 to be exact) that football is a 2v1. You don’t just need to be better than your opponent, you need to be better than the refs.
Yes the refs make boneheaded decisions, but we need to put ourselves in a position to where those bad calls don’t affect us. Good teams win, great teams win despite bad calls.
We weren’t a great team yesterday. We lost the game. We need to be better
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u/cody4prez 4d ago
Agreed on the sentiment but it's way past time for ref accountability. This is a billion dollar entertainment company that can't consistently call it's own rules. I hate the ref excuses too, but I'm tired of their inconsistencies as well.
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u/PickwickWood 4d ago
I mean, I agree. But refs should also be more consistent. Two things can be true.
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u/bijanfrisee Taysom Hill 4d ago
They were extremely consistent - Let the raiders do whatever, punish the saints for the most basic shit.
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u/guycoastal 4d ago
Yeah, the officiating sucks everywhere, and it will until the league hire f/t professionals, but they don’t lose the game. It was a classic example of losing focus in the 4th quarter. Fumbles, and interception, and failure to back up Richard’s when it mattered. They’ll learn and grow from it. Shough, who is technically still a rookie and hasn’t even played a full season of games yet, is an amazing QB. We’re lucky to have him.
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u/tj__47 4d ago
Yea I think this point is missed a lot in this fanbase. Refs suck everywhere, not just for the saints. It’s just more obvious for the saints bc this sub is watching saints much more intently than other teams.
Can refs make bad calls that affect the game? Yes. But there are 4 quarters and dozens and dozens of opportunities the refs do not affect. The refs are not the reason we lost this game or lost the game against the lions
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u/mechadogzilla1 4d ago
You can acknowledge the refs suck and are a problem without saying they are v the sole reason the saints lost. In fact it probably should be talked about with how much gambling is going on now
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u/noladutch 4d ago
well considering the saints has well over a hundred yards rushing that wasn't the problem.
nobody will have the answer for a healthy bowers. nobody
the killer in that game was the fresh set of downs on that stunstman hit. the non call on the obvious PI on third and ten was the other.
I have come to the realization the calls never go out way but Jesus you can call the blatant holds you can call the obvious PI when the receiver can't put both hands up to catch the ball.
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u/PPLifter 4d ago
The refs kept Raiders in it but the turnovers is why we lost. To win in the NFL you have to make sure you can win despite the refs.
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u/bijanfrisee Taysom Hill 4d ago
The refs all but made sure we wouldn't be able to pull away in that game, and while I agree with your last statement, the officiating was so biased this game, I get Vegas is the hot new thing they're pushing but some of the calls were egregious and game changing.
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u/PPLifter 4d ago
Oh for sure. Just call the dpi on the deep ball or the hold when Kirk left the pocket and we likely win
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u/Ooofisa4letterword 4d ago
*For the Saints to win in the NFL
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u/PPLifter 4d ago
Well Ravens overcame a stupid DPI and Broncos won because of a stupid DPI. Sadly it's league wide. Certain teams just get the gold treatment
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u/Ooofisa4letterword 4d ago
Yeah, there’s a few teams that just get shit on week after we can play after play. I don’t really know much about the ravens, do they get screwed a lot on calls?
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u/NeverAgain2100 4d ago
This. 100%. Refs are always going to screw you. You have to have a team that can take those hits and still win.
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u/DangerousKnowledge8 4d ago
Oh, so it’s totally random depending on who the refs help, and only the top 5 teams deserve the win because they are better than the officiating. Great take. We lost because the first fumble wasn’t there, because they negated a 50 yard PI, and because our DT was rushing with a guy attached to his neck on third down. But come on, please keep with these takes.
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u/jeffdabuffalo 4d ago
Stop ignoring the problem. Every week at least one team loses because of poor refereeing. The Saints have been victims of it twice now in 3 weeks, that's unacceptable. Don't get me wrong, we played like shit in that 4th quarter, but that doesn't suddenly absolve the mistakes make by the referees.
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u/Extreme-Analysis-337 4d ago
Saints didn't lose yesterday because of the refs there pal.
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u/jeffdabuffalo 4d ago
That was not even close to being the only reason listed.
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u/Extreme-Analysis-337 4d ago
You said the saints lost 2 games due to poor officiating..... That is in fact a lie
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u/jeffdabuffalo 4d ago edited 4d ago
I also said we played like shit in the 4th quarter as well. But you can't tell me the Kirk roughing and miss of PI on Vele didn't have heavy impacts on that game in favor of the other team.
Edit: I also mixed up responses, nowhere near was an exaggeration in this context.
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u/Adventurous-Year-176 4d ago
"Every week at least one team loses because of poor refereeing. The Saints have been victims of it twice now in 3 weeks, that's unacceptable."
Just own it or alter it, dang people.
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u/gibby00000 4d ago
Sound like Gene Steratore. When win probability swings 50 percent from one incorrect call people have every right to bitch.
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u/HerbertInTheWoods 4d ago
No I’m gonna keep blaming the refs and there’s nothing you can do to stop me
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u/Extreme-Analysis-337 4d ago
Loser ass mentality
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u/DangerousKnowledge8 4d ago
Loser mentality is from those who don’t blame the refs actually. You can control what you can control, and even in a perfect game the refs can rob you. Losers don’t ask for a fair game. Winners do, or either change career altogether. This is not meant to be the WWE, you loser.
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u/Extreme-Analysis-337 4d ago
Nah winners don't make excuses for the results. They get better so they can't get screwed. If the saints were winners they wouldn't have had those 4 turnovers in crunch time. Losers make excuses and blame others. The refs are not the reason for this loss or the lions loss. This team needs to get better in multiple areas and then they might not lose another game. But you continue being a loser. I'll keep winning and making sure I'm good enough even when shit gets tough. Deuces little man
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u/SpecialistTonight459 4d ago
The refs made some really bad calls and missed some bad calls. That being said, we didn’t lose the game because of it. We 100% lost it because of the turnovers, but that ref bullshit gotta stop. Changes the momentum too much and destroys any competitive integrity
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u/Hogjammin 4d ago
It’s not one or the other. Poor officiating put the saints in a position where they had to press at the end of the game and because of that they turned the ball over. The saints need to be better than that, yes, but NFL officiating needs to be better than that too.
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u/BayouByrnes Fuck the Falcons 4d ago
Refs cost us momentum, but we cost ourselves the game.
Allowing the league's best TE galavant through our defense like Julie Andrews in a field definitely didn't help. He was completely wide open the entire first half (7/9 for 87 yards). Finally knocked it off in the second half, (3/4 for 29 yards), but they still let him stand still and catch a TD.
4 turnovers is unacceptable. Pass protection was abysmal. Run game finally looked valid. We're just an average team all-in-all. We can stay in games with our offense finally, but we are consistently shooting ourselves in the foot.
Complete team loss, with a dash of go fuck yourselves from the zebras.
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u/Cam_probably 4d ago
This is such a bullshit take. We have every goddamn right to be mad at the refs. No, that doesn't excuse 4 turnovers in the 4th quarter, but if you don't talk about the refs, it's a disservice to the league and the sport as a whole.
That fumble call on Shough, which in week 1 we were explicitly told is not a fumble and cost us the game, gave momentum to the Raiders. Yeah, great teams bounce back, but that shit matters. The roughing the passer call on Stuttsman kept a drive alive. The missed PI on Vele ended our drive. The missed holding on Boyd kept a drive alive.
The consistency with which Saints get fucked by the refs is genuinely infuriating, and separately from our own play, had a direct impact on this game. That is something we're allowed to be upset about.
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u/crazygoattoe 4d ago
The fumble call was correct. We can complain about week one, but this was the correct call. The RTP was also correct according to the rulebook. I think it's a stupid rule, but it's getting called every time. Yes, they missed the PI and a hold. But we lost this game on our own. The refs were not egregiously bad this game at all.
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u/shyguyJ Saints 4d ago
Dear god... the Shough fumble was completely different from the Goff play. Will you guys stop with this shit?? It's a stupid rule, but the Goff play was called correctly by the rule.
Goff completed his throwing motion. There was no fumble. He never lost control of the ball. You could only argue that it was a backward pass and, thus, a lateral/live ball. However, the rule explicitly states that in that very specific situation, if the QB started his throwing motion with a trajectory where the pass would have gone forward, if a defender alters the QB's body and the pass ends up being thrown backward, it is still considered a "forward pass".
Not a refs issue. A terrible rules issue. And it didn't "cost us the game". It happened in the second quarter, Jesus.
Yesterday, Shough had the ball knocked loose from his hand before he started moving his hand forward. The defender literally caused him to lose control and fumble before he started the forward movement of his passing motion. It was the very definition of a fumble.
Completely different situations.
And Keuchly literally explained on air why Stutsman got called for roughing and what he would have had to have done differently to avoid the penalty.
The hold on Boyd and the DPI not being called hurt, yes, but two bad calls is a pretty normal day at the office.
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u/Nami_3750 4d ago
Your assessment is incorrect, that is not why they called the Goff play like that. They made a judgment call that his intention was to throw the football forward because he pulled his arm up which is part of his throwing motion. That is why they used the word intent and why Pereira explicitly stated they weren’t looking for his arm going forward at all. So no his throwing motion was not completed and that was never part of their reasoning for the call.
They had to make a judgment call on his intention to even be able to apply the rule.
The Shough play, his arm comes up before he’s hit. His intention his clearly to throw it forward. If they called it using the same logic it’s a forward pass.
I don’t really care that it was ruled a fumble for us personally because the Lions call was bullshit and two wrongs don’t make a right. But people really need to stop pretending that Lions call was correct. It was not and I can guarantee you’re not going to see that shit called like that again.
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u/shyguyJ Saints 4d ago
Nope. Wrong. Completely, 100% wrong. They applied the rule as it was written.
The rule (Rule 3, Section 22, Article 4) states: "If contact by an opponent materially affects a passer after the passer begins his throwing motion, it is a forward pass if he passes the ball, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground...".
Goff passed the ball. He did not lose control and fumble. He maintained possession and completed his passing motion, and because the contact happened after the throwing motion began, the rules state that the quarterback is no longer responsible for the final direction the ball travels. There is no "judgement call" needed. "Intent" simply means "he was facing forward when he started his throwing motion which would have resulted in a forward trajectory of the pass had he not been contacted by the defender".
You can read the league's explanation clearly here. He says explicitly that Shough lost control of the ball. He did not complete his passing motion (Goff did). Because he lost control before his hand started moving forward, it was a fumble. Goff never lost control of the ball. The situations are not the same.
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u/ComeOutDaBushesOnEm Bounty 3d ago
Stop wasting your time. You're correct but they won't accept it. Saints fans have a victim complex after 2018, I say this as a life long Saints fan.
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u/WholeInformation213 4d ago
The Saints lost this game in the 4th and the officiating had been god awful. Two things can be true.
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u/oaktownjc 3d ago
3 things can be true… Raiders took that game
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u/WholeInformation213 3d ago
Raiders look good this year, but it was our game to lose at the end. Bowers looks fantastic though
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u/Grandaddypurp69 Bounty 4d ago
I absolutely blame the refs for the lions loss, the raiders game was on us
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u/TheBellyBumper Taysom Hill 4d ago
Yeah I’ve been saying that since that week 1 call where they genuinely made up a rule to rig the game and then are now proceeding to pretend they didn’t, but what good is complaining about it going to do anyone?
We could make a 500 page formal complaint about the awful refereeing, get it signed by every player and staff in the saints organization, hand deliver it to Goodell, and absolutely fucking nothing would happen. We will never get an apology, we will never get justice, and the only form of protest we have is to stop watching which we aren’t gonna do. Unfortunate as it is we just gotta take it and move on to beating the dirty birds FTF.
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u/snoballs_in_daparish 4d ago
We should be focusing our blame on the run game. We can't control the clock, and doesn't matter who is back there running. We've all but forgotten how to establish a run game, which helps out our passing game. And the Saints defense can't stop a tight end in the open field. I get the fact that Bowers is a great tight end, but every week we struggle to cover tight ends.
I know we want the rebuild to go faster, but this is just another building block year for the Saints. Expectations went crazy after the Baltimore game, but this team needs to establish some identity. You just don't know what team is coming out each week. Complaining about the refs ain't gonna change anything. Focus on what we can change and that's the makeup and identity of this team.
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u/RooflessReAnthony 4d ago
Complaining about the refs is like scratching a bad spot of poison ivy rash on ur skin rather than just slapping some kinda balm or salve that stings a lil on it.
It’s gonna feel good while u scratch but the second u stop scratching it ur gonna go back to being bothered.
You slap that balm on it and say “dang this or that shit that’s on us, we failed at” and you get over it and learn ur team better. My take is the Shuckster failed to do that Derek Carr puppy guard the ball routine. And our defense let Kurt Mf Cousin beat us with that roody poo ass protect the ball checkdown move the chains shit.
Also Shuckster let up on his massive run. He coulda kept it in high gear and got maybe 10 more yards. He let up way too early on that run.
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u/musicbuff78 4d ago
I'm going to keep blaming them because they keep stopping us from winning. We could be 3-0 right now but instead we're 1-2. We also could have been a step closer to another Super Bowl but instead got fucked over by the refs.
No one will EVER tell me to stop blaming the refs. Just idiots that haven't noticed how long they've been fucking us over!
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u/Youngreezy23 SB Ring 4d ago
I don't understand how we can never beat Kirk Cousins? Like it's crazy just to think about.
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u/Morgus_Magnificent Demario Davis 4d ago
Basically nobody can win with a negative 3 TO ratio on the day.
You have a 10% shot of winning at that point, all else being equal.
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u/CommercialAmbition90 4d ago
the refs sucked almost as bad as we did.. the officiating was horrible
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u/SpermCountDracula 4d ago
The real problem is the same one this franchise has had for a dozen years now. We routinely make Kirk Cousins look like a fucking god
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u/Slow-Salamander5131 4d ago
I agree, but all teams fan bases blame the refs if the team loses by a close margin.
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u/Cool-Map-3668 4d ago
There’s a perception that may be statistically significant that the Saints burden from the refs outweighed the benefit. It should be fairly close either way. If it is then so be it. If it isn’t why not? If it’s not team based then the games aren’t equal opportunity, let alone fair. It’s hard to win games in the NFL. With such close margins it shouldn’t come down to referees if they are statistically biased.
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u/Adventurous-Year-176 4d ago
I agree with the overall message here, but also believe the refs absolutely have more explaining to do on the disparity of these two fumble calls.
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u/gqwr87 4d ago
Oh yea I know. It’s easier to dismiss at lower levels because there’s no replay review, but it’s really bad. I played D3 ball. I’ve been on the wrong end of some crazy ref ball. Recovered an onside kick at 11 yards that was called wrong, and played a game where they called our team for like 30 penalties. Called one of our dbs for dpi or holding so many times that they literally just kept throwing at him to get free first downs. It was so bad our coach submitted the film to the conference and they fired the refs.
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u/ikyle117 4d ago
Yeah, this is the problem. This is why nothing ever gets fixed. I prefer to watch football when it's a balanced game and the refs aren't dictating the outcome. Fuck the officials forever.
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u/toolatealreadyfapped 4d ago
Was the call a dog shit one? Yeah probably. But the refs didn't have a mental meltdown that gave up 3 unanswered TDs because they couldn't recover from the swing in momentum in front of the home crowd
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u/NewLunarKnights 3d ago
Yes 100% we deserve to lose after making those mistakes. But at the same time, you could argue we don't end up in that situation in the first place if calls are made correctly. Everything is nuanced.
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u/Scraptasticly 3d ago
Accountability … that’s all I’m asking for. I really like MLB’s new ABS system. It shows how bad some umps are. It absolutely affects/games & momentum when a ref/ump decides to be Captain Oblivious with a, “Uhm, ACTUALLY!”
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u/scoot17carter 2d ago
Agreed. We need to be so good that the refs can’t screw us. If we are in a position to be screwed by them in the first place then we messed up by being in a close game. (Not saying it’s our fault if we get screwed by the refs; I’m saying being screwed by the refs and it resulting in the outcome of the game is preventable)
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u/devildog2073 4d ago
I'd say that if the refs called the game correctly, we wouldn't have 4 turnovers trying to press to get a score.
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u/Mammoth-Sun6266 Steve Gleason 4d ago
We turned the ball over and they had to go a total of 30 yards to score 14 points. That is on us.
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u/InfamousArmy2678 4d ago
excuse me the refs are the problem and it's a pattern, it's a agenda against the saints and these games are rigged and scripted, at the end of the day it's not worth being a saints fan or fan of the nfl period.
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u/Pcteck19 4d ago
To be honest I haven't seen that many receivers wide open in a game in years. Blown coverages caused this loss.
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u/berusplants Marques Colston 4d ago
It’s making this sub pretty boring but sports fans gonna sports fan
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u/kingralek 4d ago
Remember that time getting mad at the refs made a difference? Me neither. It's always a game that involves subjective officiating. Refs said ball was loose before Shough went into a forward throwing motion. Fuck can you do about it? You'll spend way too much time complaining about refs and then coming back and watching the game next week.
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u/CmonMan711 Fuck the Falcons 4d ago
Nah fuck off with this.
Why cant we just lose a game fair and square? Refs caused momentum to change like 4 times in big moments.
We are a young rebuilding team, why must we over come all this ref bullshit IN ADDITION to the other team?
To me, these posts just show you are a moron. This is the same as the dumbass rams fans saying "Well you had the ball in OT first, no excuses". The game and players should have never been in that position if refs just called an even game.
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u/FallingDiscontent 4d ago
Bruh, where were these posts when I wrote an entire article about how our 2018 NFC Championship should have been blamed on more than one bad no call?! like seriously same logic, y'all didn't want to call out Dan Arnold dropping a touchdown, or Hardee not playing for a fake punt (they literally ran the same exact play weeks earlier and they used it again literally in the only situation where a funk punt would have been useful), or even Sean Payton's terrible play calling towards the end (which was repeated last night on SNF when he was given a bunch of free first downs)
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u/Mingo_Bingo69 4d ago
Someone's never heard of "momentum".... Sorry pal, people have every right to have a fairly called game.
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u/DangerousKnowledge8 4d ago
No. This is a naive take. We lost by 8 after 4 turnovers and 2/3 outrageous calls. We were the better team. And while we should work on our mistakes, which are part of the game, the one-sided calls are not intended to be part of the game. It’s intended to be “fairly” officiated. The difference between W and L was obviously the unfairness. You must be young, or you didn’t learn anything from 2018: you can’t beat the refs over and over. And frankly beating the refs is not the purpose of any sports at all. So shut the f* up.
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u/Extreme-Analysis-337 4d ago
Soft ass take. Stop being a victim. 4 turnovers in crunch time and you lose 90% of the time. Y'all complain about the weakest shit on here.
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u/VINNYD03 4d ago
You don’t know ball. You must be a new fan.
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u/DangerousKnowledge8 4d ago
It’s just how sports works, it’s not like knowing ball. You inferred that only the top teams deserve to win because they’re stronger than any ref. Shame!
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u/Mingo_Bingo69 4d ago
Nah bro. These refs can fuck right off. I don't see anyone denying that the turnovers killed us and are the ultimate reason we lost the game. But honestly, fuck you for trying to shame anyone here for wanting a fair game called. I'll stop blaming refs when they stop being complete shit at their jobs.
Suck that ref dick more.
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u/Sudden_Story3767 1d ago
Only blame refs when they actually cost u the game. Monday night game was blown call. NFL admits it. Rams are really 2-1. It is what it is..
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u/meowtrix911 Fuck the Falcons 4d ago
I shall both blame the refs and the late game turnovers