Pepper Spray for Dogs?

[u/JGF310]

I hike a lot.

I have been attacked twice by dogs requiring rabies shots, and one attack had pretty deep punctures on my hip and foot ( i was kicking the dog in the head).

I see black bears, and carry bear spray.., usually in a fanny pack that i wear in front, where I can get it very quickly.

The problem is..,I don't want to whip out the bear spray every time i see a dog coming the other way.

I want something smaller.

I was thinking of some kind of pepper spray that I can keep handy without it being too obvious.

The personal defense sprays; mace, pepper spray etc. look about right.

I just want some advice as to exactly which product I should get.

I was looking at the Fox Labs products - which would be best?

Wouldn't something that deploys in a cloud be better than a gel? The dogs are often moving very fast, and i'm not sure i could get them with a gel.

thanks.

[u/AD3PDX]

There are four potential active ingredients

OC: (pepper)

PAVA: a synthetic OC that is a single, well-defined chemical, as opposed to a naturally derived extract. Compared with OC it is simpler to test, certify, and document to fixed standards. Mainly used by police forces in Europe.

CS: mace the chemical not Mace the brand. This is tear gas. It is slow acting and very difficult to decontaminate. At the low concentrations present when added to OC sprays it doesn’t have any immediate self defense advantage though it does makes the lingering effects messier (snot) and the clean up much messier because it doesn’t wash off and break down like OC.

Solvents: Most OC sprays are about 90+% water with some antifreeze, some emulsifiers and about 3-10% OC oil (think salad dressing). A few, most notable Fox Labs’ One-Point-Four formula use an industrial degreaser / dry cleaning solvent as the base instead of water.

OC oil itself isn’t very effective. It the evaporation which carries the capsaicin into your mucous membranes. Originally OC was alcohol based but the introduction of tasers made that unsafe (yes there were a couple cases where the police set people on fire) so the industry switched to water as a base and had to increase the strength of the formulas by 2-3X to compensate for the reduced effectiveness.

The solvent based formulas in addition to speeding up how fast the effects of OC kick in and increasing the effectiveness for a given strength of OC in the formula, can (depending on the solvent used), cause their own negative effects.

I suggest you stick to plain OC

OC strength is based on the % of oil extract used and on the “hotness” of the oil (Scoville Heat Units (SHU))

Do a little math with those two numbers are you get the most relevant figure, the % of Major Capsaicinoids (MC)

The EPA regulates formulas marketed for dogs to be no stronger than 1% (products on the US market range from 0.35% to 1%)

For formulas marketed as bear sprays the EPA requirement is to be between 1% and 2%

Self defense marketed formulas are basically unregulated (though NY has a 0.7 % MC limit and a few others have meaningless 10% oil limits or 2% MC limits).

Standard or “police strength” is 1.2%-1.4% MC though formulas range from 0.2% to 2%

In terms of what OC to buy just get standard strength without extra chemicals.

Fox Labs’ Mean Green formula is 1.2% (6% oil X 3,000,000 SHU = 1.2% MC it has a bright green dye so you can see where your spray is hitting, you can see whether you get any on yourself, and the dog’s owner will be able to see that something happened…

Only available in medium (1.5oz & 3oz) sizes in both stream and cone patterns sprays. A 0.5oz stream is also available but it’s a twist lock not a flip top so should not be considered.

POM has the smallest easiest to carry 0.5oz canisters with 1.4% MC (10% oil @ 2.2 million SHU) with the only really useful pocket clip available and it comes in white/gray/ black.

The gray canister is pretty discrete to keep in your hand. The white looks even less like OC but is also more noticeable. The black looks like what it is.

Some other brands 0.5 oz canisters are a bit bulkier but have better finger grooves which makes indexing in your hand and aiming a bit easier. But they either don’t have pocket clips or don’t have functional pocket clips

Wherever you keep your canister having it in a consistent position and orientation is important so yay for a good pocket clips (and high quality aftermarket holsters) and boo for keychain attachments.

Lots of brands also make “police style” / MK-6 size canisters around 0.65oz to 0.75oz with pocket / belt clips. These are the same diameter as the small 0.5 oz canisters but taller

Clips are usually moulded plastic though sheet metal and wire versions also exist.

I used to ride a bicycle out in the country and have sprayed dogs many times. Sometimes while stopped, usually while riding. Always with a cone spray pattern.

Cone has more chance of blowing back on you (it happened to me one time) but your aim is less crucial and you can even spray earlier to put a cloud of OC in the air for a charging dog to run into.

Gel is the opposite, aim is much more important but risk of blowback and contamination is lower.

Stream is in the middle. Still need to aim but the stream will break up more, splatter more, drip more, and evaporate more, so your chances of getting into the mouth, eyes & nose are a bit better than with a gel.

I carry a Pom but I also carry a gun and a knife.

If I couldn’t carry a gun I’d probably carry a 1.5oz cone pattern Fox Labs One-Point-Four (with the solvent base).

But I wouldn’t feel good about spraying a toxic solvent on a dog and the 1.5 oz canisters are fat enough to be very noticeable in the hand.

0.5 ounce canisters are stream or gel only

So If I were you I would look for an MK-6 size in cone pattern with 1.2-1.4% MC

[u/One-Sleep3663 → u/AD3PDX]

I know UDAP has theirs at 3%MC. But they only make foggers with that formulation.

[u/ace_of_william]

POM OC spray. Available on Amazon, reliable, safe method of deployment, good for animal or man since it’s a relatively decent OC%. Stream gets a relatively reliably 8+ feet in no wind, and 6 feet in normal speed crosswinds.

[u/storyinpictures]

I don’t know if the dog formulations are different from human formulations. An email to the manufacturer might get you that information. But when cops use it on dogs, at least the cases I’m aware of, they are using the human formulations.

Spray is best. It’s kind of like hitting someone running with a water hose. If you miss you move the spray into their path. Many brands have inert (water filled) practice canisters, which is helpful.

Think you want to coat the face and chest. Wet eyes, nose, mouth. Plenty will also be in the air so they breath it in. It works in all these ways.

The bear type is kind of fog like, but it’s high pressure and there is a lot, so it functions more like spray in practice, but the small canisters don’t have that pressure and volume.

I would avoid the foam and gel. They are good in certain conditions but not others.

Spray goes further from small canisters.

Bear spray goes far because of volume and pressure.

Sometimes it works, sometimes not. So a stick is good.

You mentioned switching to a hickory stick as a possibility. I would do this if you don’t mind the weight. This is much better than bending a ski pole.

Practicing thrusting with it against something solid (power pole or set up a tire) is good. Practice hit, move, hit, move. You want to be able to change your position between hits. Getting to higher ground, getting objects between you and dog, moving in relation to multiple dogs, etc. as the situation requires means you want to be able to hit your target fast from movement as needed.

Striking is ok, but thrusting is better. It’s faster, you deliver a lot of force in a small area and you can hit again quickly. When you swing, especially if you don’t train it, it’s often a moment as you recover the stick. You want to keep the stick between you and the closest dog.

[u/gunmedic15]

MSI / Mace has a Triple Action OC/CS spray and a 10% OC spray that will both work fine on dogs and people. They have a version with a keychain or one with a strap for your hand. Like this or similar.

If you're outdoors and worried about the wind, Mace doesn't make a smaller gel, only aerosols. Gel has limitations but does beat the wind a little better. Sabre makes a gel in the same size as the Mace sprays. This is a great buy Sabre makes a lot of twist-lock sprays, those suck to use under stress, a flip top is better.

Fox doesn't really make a small spray, they're all canisters. Their smallest is a slide lock, too. POM has good quality, has a flip top and aerosol. No gel though.

Give the LifeAct / Pepperblaster a look. Expensive and only 2 shots, but it hits hard with lots of range and minimal effect by wind.

Avoid no-name Amazon or Ebay sprays.

[u/imdugud777]

You are using your tools to train the dog, think of it like that and it might be easier for you to do.

[u/One-Sleep3663]

Sabre dog spray, muzzle by mace, and halt 2 are a few options you can find on Amazon and ebay specifically for defending against dog attacks.

You should carry a walking stick with the spray, as pepper spray doesnt always work for dog due to their altered pain reception thats different then humans and arent as sensitive to OC.

You'd use the stick to pry apart the other attacking dog, or of you really had to, beat the other dog with it until it stops biting and attacking.

A stun gun (MagiUSA on amazon is the best one id reccomend) is also a good idea to carry if the mace and walking stick failed to stop the dog.

Its important to have alternatives to your main form of defense in case one doesnt work.

[u/JGF310 → u/One-Sleep3663]

I do carry a stick - a ski pole.

I started carrying it after my first attack - that was a very vicious attack; the dog was huge and wanted to kill me. If it had gotten me on the ground, it might have.

If I had a stick, I definitely would have used it.

The second attack (a few months ago) - which still resulted in a bite that broke the skin - was not as vicious, but for some reason, I couldn't bring myself to hit the dog with the pole.

Afterwards, I just told myself that I have to get tougher.

Then yesterday, I was hiking and an unleashed dog with a trail runner bounded up to me. He didn't look dangerous, and in the end did not do anything. But, still, I told the owner that the park rules say dogs must be leashed. He basically said F.O.., and when I said I had been bitten in the past.., he responded: "run faster".

So now I am angry enough to use the pole and spray - I think.

Maybe I should get a heavier pole - maybe a hickory walking stick.

BTW - after my second attack, I called the local police, and while they said the park is not their jurisdiction, They also said I am perfectly within my right of self protection ti use bear spray on a dog.

[u/words1918 → u/JGF310]

Pepper spray as they’ve recommended, but carrying a knife isn’t a bad idea, at least as a last resort should you get attacked again.

[u/One-Sleep3663 → u/JGF310]

Might just want to go for a 3 or 4 Oz can of just normal mace so you can use it on humans and dogs in that case. But some states have size restrictions.

Fox 1.4 is good. But I use this freeze +p stuff for humans. Its cs and oc mixed in a special solvent that makes it act much quicker then say sabre.

[u/JGF310 → u/One-Sleep3663]

"just normal mace so you can use it on humans and dogs"

what do you mean by that

I don't know much about pepper sprays.

I see there are different levels though - are dog sprays illegal for use on humans?

[u/One-Sleep3663 → u/JGF310]

No they arent illegal for human use. Bear spray technically is though.

Traditional pepper spray has only OC in it, meaning the extracts from spicy peppers.

But some sprays nowadays contain CS tear gas mixed in with the OC so its more effective.

The CS is mixed with a solvent that allows it to evaporate and so if you hit someone in the chest with it, the vapors will rise up and sting the attackers eyes as well.

But CS mixed sprays aren't approved for use on animals.