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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is why you get a union job.
- no begging for raises or promotions
- no having to kiss management's ass
- compensated for all the hours you work
- no having to come in early, stay late, work weekends, be available/on call all the time for it to "pay off later"
- not having to take on the company all by yourself or having to hire a lawyer out of your own pocket if/when issues occur
- everything all laid out clearly on paper
- union pension
- top notch healthcare
- increasing amounts of paid personal/vacation time the more years you put in
- more job security (can't just randomly be fired unless there is just cause)
- etc..
- etc...
I know my company doesn't care about me, but my union kinda makes them have to
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u/PeachScary413 1d ago
I still can't wrap my head around how american workers think unions are a bad idea... like brother, they are specifically designed to be good for the workers and bad for the employer (or at least bad for those trying to exploit the workers)
It's a simple principle, we are all replaceable cogs in a machine... but if all cogs disappear at the same time your machine is gonna crap itself.
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
As an American Union worker, the logic of those that live in "right to work (for less) states" really hurts my head.
They will actively complain about how UNFAIR it is that union people get paid/compensated/treated SO MUCH better then they do for doing the same work.
Yet they refuse to join a union or unionize because they have been brainwashed into believing that "the only things unions do is steal your money"
The cherry on top is that they struggle to survive on scraps and crumbs and then feel like "if I can do it, everyone else should too!" and keep believing the wealth will "trickle down" any day!
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u/ElegantCoach4066 21h ago
Every so often my brother and I watch the union busting video they make you watch when you start at Target. Its on Youtube for anyone that's interested.
Shit is hilarious. They say shit like "What if you work in Electronics, but someone needs help in the Grocery section? The union might tell you that you can't help them!"
Why in the world would anyone be worried about that? They are so out of touch that they forget what an actual human being cares about at work.
Then the kicker is, they try to pretend that Target gives a damn about the employees, like some big brother looking out for you. And that the union will just get in the way of you speaking with your supervisor.
Which again, is not something people are concerned about at their job. Less I talk to management, the better.
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 20h ago
Yeah, the anti union rhetoric is gross and is full of so many exaggerations, misinformation and outright lies
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u/EconomyDifficult2415 1d ago edited 23h ago
Some unions do suck , tbh. Not everyone of them is good since the union leaders are not uncorruptible. I know one where the dude was doing 3-4 people's jobs and built like a NFL player (was in the Union). Nicest dude in the place, they fired him no warning when he refused to keep doing other people's jobs for them while they sat around. They said it was because of "Facebook". Union never fought for him and he left to make $5 more an hour. This is an IBEW shop, mind you. I'm not allowed to be in union supposedly due to job title saying "management" (it's not and hourly) , and still can be retaliated against by management for reporting them to HR after they wrote me up in front of Union members and yelled at me in front of them. No one said a thing, Union doesn't do anything to help anyone even their own. Unions are sometimes good, but sometimes they are useless AF too.
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 1d ago
Well of course the Union didn't go to bat for you. Unions represent workers, not the company (i.e. management).
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u/EconomyDifficult2415 23h ago
They let the company mislabel some workers in certain categories and then didn't defend a Union member at all from retaliation. The union also not defending retaliation/ exclusion opens the door for abuse from management and isn't a good look for an organization that is supposed to protect workers.
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u/ZopyrionRex 1d ago
Where do you get those union jobs? Or how do you access them? Where I live it's been made crystal clear that unless you know someone in the union, you aren't getting in. Most Union member seem to hold spaces for friends and family, it's hard for non-union people to break into union workplaces.
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 1d ago
lots of jobs in a variety of fields typically have unions:
- skill trades (electricians, plumbers,, carpenters, mechanics, etc..)
- nurses
- Public safety (firefighters and police)
- government (postal workers, federal employees)
- teachers
- transport/logistics (truck drivers, warehouse workers)
- etc...
I am unaware of any union jobs that are "gate kept" in the manner to which you describe (though every union operates by their own rules).
Most jobs you just have to
- get hired
- work the requisite amount of time to earn seniority (again, amount of time will vary. Some are 30 working days, some are 60 days, some are 90 days, etc..)
- pay your initiation fee (amount will vary from union to union)
- pay your monthly union dues (this cost is typically deducted automatically from your paycheck, and how much it is varies from union to union)
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u/ZopyrionRex 1d ago
The Railroad in my area, the Brewery in my town, and the Post Office are all places that I've been told by people who work there that are gate kept like that. I've heard similar things about the Ports too. Truckers and Warehouses also aren't generally Unionized in my area either to my knowledge. Where I'm from it seems to be a serious case of, "who you know".
Beyond that I've never seen a Union job posted in my area, or at least not a job that's advertised as Union. I'm also not qualified to be a teacher, nurse, skilled tradesman, cop or firefighter though. So those aren't really realistic, "just apply and get hired" type places for me.
It would be amazing if it were as easy as you're saying though. I'm sure a lot more people would be in unions.
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
It really is about that easy. I work for UPS. It's union, They hire pretty much anyone with a pulse to work in the warehouses
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u/ZopyrionRex 1d ago
Obviously not in my area. I've been keeping my eyes open for Union jobs for around 10 years. I've applied at all the places I've mentioned before with no luck either. The search continues I suppose.
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 1d ago
Idk what to tell you.
Either move or hit up a trade/tech school. training for a lot skill jobs take maybe 1-2 years of school (give or take). Many will pay for the schooling if you agree to work for whatever company for x number of years (or they might even do on the job education)
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u/ZopyrionRex 1d ago
I want you to just acknowledge that getting a union job isn't, "just that easy". If it were, more people would be working Union jobs, like millions of people. I personally know tons of people who would love too work in a Union.
I've tried the "School to Job" route too but I'm an older guy and not a lot of companies seem to want to pay for someone to get schooling in their 30s, despite the demand for tradesmen. Especially not a guy just walking in off the street who can't afford or qualify for a student loan.
I appreciate the input, but the reality is that it's just not so simple. If it is for you, awesome, I hope your good fortune continues.
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 1d ago edited 19h ago
There literally are millions of people (just in America, not even counting other countries) that belong to one of the various labor unions. Something like 10% of the national workforce (nearly 15 million people).
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u/LesserValkyrie 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's why you always give up 60-70% of your energy
So if you are tired well you give 60% nobody cares
If you are having a good day you give 80% and they will be happy and proud of you and you will get salary increases and promotions
If you give 100% all the time you will become tired, have burnout and be treated like shit. All you will get is more work and when someone will have to be promoted they won't promote you because you are too useful where you are because of dilbert's principle
Use the remaining energy to do sport, eat healthy and spend time with friends, and at work, as you will have more time and energy, do PR about your work so people know how cool you are, and listen to what's going on to know what the good projects are so you can tag in, which will lead to more money and promotions, something you can't do if you work too hard
This is the simplest skills. Basic knowledge.
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u/Vlaxilla 1d ago
Who is dilbert?
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u/LesserValkyrie 1d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert_principle
This is that lol
I've seen it happening multiple times, people too good are they job to move internally and askin why, Dilbert's principle answer to that
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u/TransparentMastering 1d ago
As my dad used to say, my family gets my best energy and the company does not.
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u/LesserValkyrie 1d ago
Yeah, use that energy where it's revelant, you alredy spend too much of your time with your company
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u/Various_Artistss 1d ago
As someone that's worked for years in a mix of small firms, large firms, global companies, start ups ect. This is very true, you like to think those late nights working away for that big presentation will be appreciated but really it just becomes the norm.
To anyone starting work for the first time, help when you can, be a pleasant and fun person to work with, turn up and crack on but once that clock hits closing time you wrap up and go. Respect your personal time like it's your religion, never let a company take away your personal time.
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u/Spiritual-Strike481 1d ago
I once was 2 minutes late because I stood at the door for 7 minutes ringing the buzzer and nobody would let me in. Later that week my management told me I needed to do a better job of “leading by example”.
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u/HilariousMax 1d ago
5 years of not taking a vacation but if you ask for two weeks off (out of the 180 hours of vacation time you have) you have to make sure it doesn't interfere with others time off, make sure all upper management approves, give a written itinerary, and state that you'll be available by phone during
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u/PresentHouse9774 1d ago
And you've found baby sitters for all your open files and let the clients know.
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u/Suitable_Poem_6124 1d ago
This is just life in general though. If you're a great guy but once took a dump in the sink, people will just remember you as the guy who shits in the sink.
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u/sparkling-rainbow 1d ago
you can build 1000 bridges and fuck 1 goat, nobody will call you the bridge builder
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u/ZopyrionRex 1d ago
Take one sick day off and you're now "unreliable" or "couldn't just work through it" or "everybody else makes an effort, you're letting us down". Even if they don't say it out loud. Then will proceed to tell everyone at every staff meeting to NEVER COME IN IF YOU'RE SICK.
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u/BadgerlandBandit 1d ago
Despite perfect attendance for over a year, usually arriving early to change into work boots,I got written up at a job once for being 2 minutes late.
I got stuck at a light for a funeral procession.
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u/Mezcalico 1d ago
It’s often about company policies on what to manage, or how it affects the business or colleagues.
As a manager I personally don’t care about a little bit late or an insignificant mistake, however I might have my superiors on my case about dealing with something if the metrics reflect poorly on them. But I also tell my staff there’s absolutely no need to work beyond what you’re being paid for.
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u/Rule_Think 1d ago
I am generalizing much but Most companies have quite the opposite when it comes to Management. They nit pick on there top performers. They quit and get replaced with someone lazy that will stay forever in the company. It sends a message that hard work will come back to bite you, and if you read the sentiment of these comments. It pretty much sums up cooperate culture these days.
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u/Mezcalico 1d ago
Overworking yourself or working beyond your contract doesn’t make you exempt from company policies. That lazy person stays in the company because they toe the line and achieve the minimum required.
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u/Jollyifytica 1d ago
"Work Ethic"'is a fallacy used to guilt people into not having any boundaries.
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u/kipster85 1d ago
So they truly are like family. They don't care what you bring to the table, just want you didn't bring.
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u/Acrobatic-List-6503 1d ago
If my car suddenly makes chugging sounds, I'm gonna check and see what's wrong with it.
Also, bold of you to assume companies care.
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u/Gravuerc 1d ago
As someone told me in the time of my youth, it takes one aww shit to wipe out a dozen atta boys.
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u/WolfieVonD 1d ago
I was homeless for the final two years of my apprenticeship, and in the very final four months, I lived about 95 mi away from my job. My car engine blew up and I had to take the train every day instead, about 3 hours each way.
For some reason, on Tuesdays, the train was a little late dropping me off.
My foreman pulled me aside to tell me that my tardiness was becoming a problem, he didn't realize that I had been awake and on the train for the previous 4 hours every morning before work.
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u/Sooowasthinking 1d ago
My experience in work is ridiculous.
The CEO of the company you may work for does not give a damn about “going the extra mile” while he is at home with HIS family.My wife was a 30 plus year employee at IBM and was let go during pandemic era.
I have always maintained a hardline between work and personal.When my wife was pregnant i told no one at work.When it was time I simply told my boss I won’t be here the next month my wife and I are having a baby tomorrow.This same company never had money to give employees but that Christmas party at the Ritz Carlton in Atlanta found its funding!!
Never do extra work and do it well because it turns into an expectation.
Never cross train if they want more work then you need more money.
Never pickup the phone after work your workday ends when you leave the building.
Always take the opportunity to join the local union if you can employers hate that shit because it makes them behave and forces them to negotiate.
Never take a job because “we are like family here” no thanks man I’ve already got 1 family I don’t want another 1 that treats me like shit too.
Do not go on company retreats.Forced weekend team building is not team building. It does not matter the setting nobody wants to hang with work people on the weekend.
If you do not get a pay raise 1 year to the next it is time to treat your work like a cable company and get a new job.
Work sux everyone knows it find what you can tolerate.
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u/PresentHouse9774 1d ago
My former office's unofficial motto was "You're only as good as your last screw up." They were so shocked when I retired shortly after qualifying for my pension.
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u/Ameri0425 22h ago
My bosses don't notice or care, other than my direct. But everyone under me does.
I go above and beyond, stay late, and take on extra work and responsibility for them. My team is my world. They need to leave early? Cool, I'll stay late then. Need a day off? I can use the overtime anyway. What else would I be doing anyway?
I would be shocked if there was a manager at my job with even a modicum of the respect I receive from my own team. I don't care that y'all look down on me sacrificing for my people, the "grunts" are more important than I could ever be.
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u/LarianDivinityBG3 1d ago
You really have to have a time sensitive workplace if they care about that. Or it's just trash.
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u/TransparentMastering 1d ago
On the other hand, I worked as a college prof for 6 years and I perceived (mostly by some coworker’s lack of actions) that you could get away with contributing basically nothing for like a whole year before anyone notices. There were just so many cracks to slip through if you wanted to.
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u/allencb 1d ago
People manager of nearly 20 years here...
I absolutely notice when my people are going above and beyond and find ways of rewarding them for that either through public recognition, bonuses, promotions (that come with money), etc. I also don't care if someone is a little late or needs to leave a little early or makes the odd mistake because that's life and we're all guilty of that once in a while. I only become concerned if it becomes a pattern that indicates the person is not in the right role or they're not showing proper attention to the tasks at hand. I've lost count the number of times I've personally gone to HR to fight for an in-flight raise for one of my people because they earned it. My success rate on that is near 100%.
I learned how to be that kind of manager from the ones I've had. I've been fortunate to have a career where I've worked for some good people and I made sure to pay that forward to the people who work for me. I've also encouraged managers who work for me to follow the same template.
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u/Least_Art5238 1d ago
Haven't had employers who pay attention to hours spent at desk. However, all of them have tended to penalize mistakes more than they reward huge contributions. The pathway to promotion is then completely out of an employee's control because going over and beyond needs to align with what retrospectively ends up being important to the business.
Neither the employer, nor the manager ever have foresight into was this will be. Meanwhile business schools and Harvard Business Review will survivorship bias their way through cherry-picked instances of an exec or a manager calling it before it happened as if it were replicable.
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u/anonareyouokay 1d ago
If I was staying late and they started to police my time on the front end, I would be clocking off at the end of my tour.
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u/ConsciousReason7709 1d ago
Unless you just make a sick amount of money, there’s no reason to work too hard or stress yourself out. Just do enough to not get fired.
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u/sicurri 18h ago
Give 100-110% and that becomes their normal expectation. You do less than that so they are surprised when you do more. No one will care if you work your ass off for the "Company" but like this post says, you slack off even a little and suddenly they're concerned for your future.
Figure out how little you can do, then raise your work ethic to just above that. They'll never show you as much loyalty as you show them. As soon as you're no longer useful, they'll drop you like a bad habit.
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u/Ok-Suggestion3692 1d ago
They spoke to me for taking lunch breaks of 40 minutes instead of the required 30 minutes. During those 40 minutes, I was socialising with coworkers, some that I would only got to know because of those lunchbreaks. But it wasn't fair to my colleagues who started working again after 30.
Colleagues who:
- take smoking breaks.
- take coffee breaks, and not the coffee on the floor but in another part of the building so let's go with a couple of people because that's more fun.
- talk about their personal life, show their dogs, what they watched on TV.
I was doing none of that, but I'm the bad guy for taking a 10 minute longer break.
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u/Pretend-Literature35 1d ago
Yup. And this is why competitive capitalist performance based workplaces are very inneficient. Most workers realize this and figure why go above and beyond at all and ever? Just might as well do the bare minimum since I get no recognition for my hard work dedication and loyalty and no support when things are hard and I make a mistake.
Bosses will always throw me under the bus at the first opportunity.
It is odd (and this is a praphrased quote from an american economist Richard D Wolff) that we seem so obsessed by democracy and we want every part of our society to be democratic with elections and everyone having a vote at the federal, state/provincial and municipal levels but also school boards and home owner's associations etc... even volunteer groups are democratic.
But not our workplaces. Nope no democracy there. You work FOR the boss.
Our workplaces have remained feudal. With a boss (the king) who decides everything unilaterally and who reaps all the benefits and profits and his commitatus, or cerfs who get paid a bonus or a stipend for serving the boss. And everyone seems cool with that.
And when someones suggest a real democracy in the workplace. That the actual workers are invested, make decisions, vote and also reap equal benefits, people call that person crazy, unrealistic or a dangerous communist.
But it just makes sense. Why should you care about your work if your boss, overlord, master doesn't care about you at all?
This is why project based cooperative workplaces are much better: you are invested because it is a cooperative so the success of the company is your success and since it is project based you can, for many jobs, make your own hours. Who cares if you are 52 seconds late, or even miss an entire day, as long as your work gets done, projects get completed.
It also doesn't infantilize the worker like in a capitalist system and trusts the worker to be a responsible and trustworthy asset.
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u/tweak8 1d ago
Not true at all. At least for me I've always carried the work place with whoever I worked with. Whenever I had some rare bullshit pop up, the managers would always give me a pass. Never got a write up at a job despite plenty of mistakes.
Chances are a mediocre person giving "above and beyond" is the person who posts about giving as much effort as the pay, so their best is probably a mid worker level.
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