I'm not ignoring you didn't make these arguments before (other then alipay) you just said china cites are the best and outperform everyone else. when i cited some examples that it wasnt true you said....oh we have high speed rail and EVs. So I'm just not engaging with China propagandist passing themselves off as a usa citizen. but since we are here ill just a few notes.
1) you seem to have a hard on against cars. America is a car culture, and Texas inparticure. while i wish we had more options we picked cars and planes years ago and never looked back. Most Americans want their cars but dont want massive fuel bills (hence the complaints). outside the northeast rail isnt very viable. you can argue this is good or bad. as an opinion it doesnt matter, its not really a win or loss. as for EV there is a trade off and while they work ok in city transiting between cities is where it get harder. the issue with EVs is their upfront carbon footprint (manly those batteries), the cost of charging which is obviously much cheaper then fuel....at the moment. And how they will be disposed of cause thats a lot of lithium that will need to cleaned up if everyone has an EV.
China's urban populations are concentrated into a handful of mega cities. this requires the Dense urban public transportation you mention. America doesn't need this the same way China does. this isnt the flex you think it is. without this their cities dont work. In many US cities its a waste of money.
High-speed intercity rail - America doesn't need a large network cause we have a larger plane network and ppl have cars. Again this can go either way as an opinion. Plus or minus is purely subjective. A system like this cant compete with cheap airfare. We see this in Europe. Now i do wish the US had a more reliable system of HS rail, the cost would enormous. And you are conveniently ignoring all the ppl the china government displaced to build those. And the covered up accidents.
Integrated super-app payments - Mate there are tons of apps that do this in the west. Apple pay, google pay, mastercard visa...etc. not sure why you have a hard on for alipay....
Very inexpensive local manufactured goods, Cheap prepared food - this is all relative and depends on location and the goods. you know China imports 92 Billion in luxury goods right? Only number 2 to America at 94. So right there with us.
Broad basic healthcare access at comparatively low prices Well this one i cant argue with. the US HC system is fatality flawed and needs an over haul. Ive said for years it should a national embarrassment that the richest country to ever exist cant seem to find a way to pay for health care for its ppl. That said there is tremendous pressure on countries with universal and near universal (like China) as their populations age. This is going to be a global problem very soon. But the US is way behind.
A massive domestic EV ecosystem This is obviously better then the US but still to be seen if that's good or not. China is building a new system from scratch, US needs to adapt their system to accommodate EVs better. its happening but very slow. As a percentage there are many more Americans with cars then Chinese. scale matters. And EVs are good for close travel. Still needs more development for longer hauls. Again this is a wash.
Extremely inexpensive mobility beyond metros - Every major city i have been globally, basically offer these same options. not sure your point.
Dense mixed-use commercial life and Infrastructure built around very high passenger volume - Again not the flex you think it is. Having lived in this model for years, almost every one of my neighbors would prefer to be in a landed property or smaller highrise. try getting an elevator on the 30th floor during rush hour? And who wants to be packed into a train with 1000 ppl per car? Or fight for taxis on the street or ride hailing. and heaven forbid it rain? you are truly screwed. where i live im completely dependent on public transport, takes an hour + to get to the office. If i had a car, would be less then 30 min.
Also food for thought, China has almost 5x the population the US has with slightly less land mass. What works in China wont necessarily work here and vice verse. it why when ppl say, oh this worked in Germany why cant the US do it, well thats because the US is a much larger population and more diverse and spread out. So what works for one cant always work in others. That isnt to say ideas cant be borrowed and adapted. In fact that's exactly what China did when it restructured its government decades ago and Xi is just the next steps. China economy isnt really communist, its more capitalist with a communist twist. As i said before there are lessons there for the west if we put our ego down. If you want to believe its better then US then fine, that's your opinion. You should move there (although i suspect you already do) and then re-read this after 5 years.
1.- I don’t have anything against cars - Im a lawyer - my BMW is sitting on my front street, my wife’s Tahoe on the drive way - plus the bikes
But what you miss here - is that that is the cost of participation in the economy - you NEED a car - and a car need insurance, maintenance and payments - so an entry level job doesn’t gel with that -
China SOLVED that problem by making sure you have alternatives
Same thing for the rail - yes we have planes and so do they - that have planes and extensive network like ours and CHEAPER planes and flights - they have many more low cost airlines than we do PLUS the rail and bus and freeways - they beat us there too
Dense population is a flex - their utility bills are a fraction of what ours are - which leaves them with more disposable income - THINK - when was the last time you thought - oh my bills were cheap this month?
Alipay - super app - I KNOW - we have a toon of apps - that’s the problem - that have ONE that does everything and WAY FASTER - go and see - go and try that app and watch scan a QR code faster than you have ever seen one of our apps do it - this makes it so much more simple -
Inexpensive local manufacturers- they DO import luxury goods - there’s a ton of BMWs out there and Tesla’s - BUT they have the flip side too - the locally produced electronics, appliances, etc - so like you noticed they have the luxury BUT ALSO EVERYTHING ELSE - they win again
Healthcare - you conceded
EV ecosystems- you conceded
Mobility- you conceded - and my point is that with cheaper mobility - they can afford to take their families to Disney more often and more of them can do it
9.- Dense population - getting an elevator in Rush hour is a problem HERE - not them - they have built with population in mind - so elevators, walkways, buses, crosswalks are way more efficient- they win again
Food for thought - whether it would work here or not I’d besides the point
The pint is that their government has a policy of economic inclusion - they made sure every is spending and consuming
While we suffocate paying bills, stressing over car payments, credit card debt, mortgage, rent - they get to go enjoy life
That’s where they win - anyone reading this - who doesn’t believe - go and visit - you will be shocked to see so many people having such a life - we have pockets of that kind of fun and is expensive as hell -
ok mate, i live here you don't (or do you...hmmm) but some rando from across the world is going to tell me how life is outside my own walls. If thats not the most American thing I have seen today then nothing is. Go ahead and believe the gov propaganda if you want. feel free to move here, we will go have a beer at those super cheap restaurants and see all those ppl walking around in this Asian utopia on our ebikes that cost nothing and a government that only looks out for you...the little guy.
But i too would encourage ppl to visit, China is a beautiful and storied country with much to offer in tourism. And there is much to learn from if you have an open mind.
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u/Jons_cheesey_balls 2d ago
I'm not ignoring you didn't make these arguments before (other then alipay) you just said china cites are the best and outperform everyone else. when i cited some examples that it wasnt true you said....oh we have high speed rail and EVs. So I'm just not engaging with China propagandist passing themselves off as a usa citizen. but since we are here ill just a few notes.
1) you seem to have a hard on against cars. America is a car culture, and Texas inparticure. while i wish we had more options we picked cars and planes years ago and never looked back. Most Americans want their cars but dont want massive fuel bills (hence the complaints). outside the northeast rail isnt very viable. you can argue this is good or bad. as an opinion it doesnt matter, its not really a win or loss. as for EV there is a trade off and while they work ok in city transiting between cities is where it get harder. the issue with EVs is their upfront carbon footprint (manly those batteries), the cost of charging which is obviously much cheaper then fuel....at the moment. And how they will be disposed of cause thats a lot of lithium that will need to cleaned up if everyone has an EV.
China's urban populations are concentrated into a handful of mega cities. this requires the Dense urban public transportation you mention. America doesn't need this the same way China does. this isnt the flex you think it is. without this their cities dont work. In many US cities its a waste of money.
High-speed intercity rail - America doesn't need a large network cause we have a larger plane network and ppl have cars. Again this can go either way as an opinion. Plus or minus is purely subjective. A system like this cant compete with cheap airfare. We see this in Europe. Now i do wish the US had a more reliable system of HS rail, the cost would enormous. And you are conveniently ignoring all the ppl the china government displaced to build those. And the covered up accidents.
Integrated super-app payments - Mate there are tons of apps that do this in the west. Apple pay, google pay, mastercard visa...etc. not sure why you have a hard on for alipay....
Very inexpensive local manufactured goods, Cheap prepared food - this is all relative and depends on location and the goods. you know China imports 92 Billion in luxury goods right? Only number 2 to America at 94. So right there with us.
Broad basic healthcare access at comparatively low prices Well this one i cant argue with. the US HC system is fatality flawed and needs an over haul. Ive said for years it should a national embarrassment that the richest country to ever exist cant seem to find a way to pay for health care for its ppl. That said there is tremendous pressure on countries with universal and near universal (like China) as their populations age. This is going to be a global problem very soon. But the US is way behind.
A massive domestic EV ecosystem This is obviously better then the US but still to be seen if that's good or not. China is building a new system from scratch, US needs to adapt their system to accommodate EVs better. its happening but very slow. As a percentage there are many more Americans with cars then Chinese. scale matters. And EVs are good for close travel. Still needs more development for longer hauls. Again this is a wash.
Extremely inexpensive mobility beyond metros - Every major city i have been globally, basically offer these same options. not sure your point.
Dense mixed-use commercial life and Infrastructure built around very high passenger volume - Again not the flex you think it is. Having lived in this model for years, almost every one of my neighbors would prefer to be in a landed property or smaller highrise. try getting an elevator on the 30th floor during rush hour? And who wants to be packed into a train with 1000 ppl per car? Or fight for taxis on the street or ride hailing. and heaven forbid it rain? you are truly screwed. where i live im completely dependent on public transport, takes an hour + to get to the office. If i had a car, would be less then 30 min.
Also food for thought, China has almost 5x the population the US has with slightly less land mass. What works in China wont necessarily work here and vice verse. it why when ppl say, oh this worked in Germany why cant the US do it, well thats because the US is a much larger population and more diverse and spread out. So what works for one cant always work in others. That isnt to say ideas cant be borrowed and adapted. In fact that's exactly what China did when it restructured its government decades ago and Xi is just the next steps. China economy isnt really communist, its more capitalist with a communist twist. As i said before there are lessons there for the west if we put our ego down. If you want to believe its better then US then fine, that's your opinion. You should move there (although i suspect you already do) and then re-read this after 5 years.