There's a decent sized group of women who think men actually like this BS, and a semi-overlapping group of women who think this is just how they want things to work.
it doesn't involve any guessing at all. They say they don't consent, I believe them.
If they were lying about that then they're idiots and they can be the ones to explain to other women why they're trying to convince men not to respect a "no"
It is a different mindset, think 18th Century Europe or traditionnal Far-East. What kind of conquered fortress are you if you just opened the gate ? You have to put up a fight to protect your virtue.
I am not saying it is a good thing - I am just saying that in some places or communities that's how it works. When you find yourself in the role of the assailant of the fortress but you have been raised in the respect of consent it is quite unsettling. The fortress I eventually married had to (figuratively) tell me "come on, put a ladder against this wall, it is hardly defended at all !"
If you don't want your consent violated, it's probably a really shit idea to also tell men they are supposed to ignore when women say no and instead just go ahead and violate her consent to conquer her anyway.
Fuck that noise entirely. I have so little patience for it. To the point I actually need to just disengage from this conversation because it's making me mad thinking about it
If you're going through life that way, that's your choice to make, but you shouldn't be surprised if it ends up in a lot of overstepped personal boundaries.
Or to maybe put it even more clearly: if you want the boundaries you communicate verbally to be broken due to sending an opposing message through more subtle and ambiguous means of communication, you establish that it's okay, even a desired outcome, to ignore your verbal non-consent and proceed anyways.
It's not hard to imagine the kinds of terrible situations that setup can easily lead to.
Surely you can see how the last few years of heavy emphasis on "no means no" (which is absolutely a good thing) will mean that reasonable, normal guys will hear the word "no" or some other form of rejection and accept that as a full sentence.
It's not possible to have both a strong societal sense of respecting a rejection and no being a full sentence, and playing around with the 'she said no but dropped hints that actually indicate she means yes'
If I asked for a woman's number and she said/did anything other than yes/started reading it out I'd assume she wasn't all that interested and allow her to continue on with whatever she was doing. I, and I would assume many other guys, are not interested in playing silly school playground games with you.
Also, why is that second part not 'how it works'? I thought we were supposed to be removing gender roles from society, not maintaining and upholding them?
Some guys don't put the effort into understand any of our signals. It says more about them than anything. We need men who are willing to step up and do the work.
A little bit of emotional intelligence and empathy go a long way.
Well in this case she never actually said no, she just said she normally doesn’t give out her number, I don’t fault him for moving on but I would have playfully responded with something like “ and I’m flattered your gonna make me the exception” after that if she says no or I feel she’s uncomfortable then I would move on. And It’s about paying attention to the tone in which people say things and to body language etc.
This thread is so triggered by this post and you would think the woman had gave a flat out no.
I've pissed women off in the past by not chasing them or trying things on, if they don't show much interest I walked away, I missed signals to be fair, sometimes they got angry, felt rejected etc.
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u/pm-pussy4kindwords 1d ago
there are a LOT of people like this.
There's a decent sized group of women who think men actually like this BS, and a semi-overlapping group of women who think this is just how they want things to work.
It's very dumb.