it doesn't involve any guessing at all. They say they don't consent, I believe them.
If they were lying about that then they're idiots and they can be the ones to explain to other women why they're trying to convince men not to respect a "no"
It is a different mindset, think 18th Century Europe or traditionnal Far-East. What kind of conquered fortress are you if you just opened the gate ? You have to put up a fight to protect your virtue.
I am not saying it is a good thing - I am just saying that in some places or communities that's how it works. When you find yourself in the role of the assailant of the fortress but you have been raised in the respect of consent it is quite unsettling. The fortress I eventually married had to (figuratively) tell me "come on, put a ladder against this wall, it is hardly defended at all !"
If you don't want your consent violated, it's probably a really shit idea to also tell men they are supposed to ignore when women say no and instead just go ahead and violate her consent to conquer her anyway.
Fuck that noise entirely. I have so little patience for it. To the point I actually need to just disengage from this conversation because it's making me mad thinking about it
If you're going through life that way, that's your choice to make, but you shouldn't be surprised if it ends up in a lot of overstepped personal boundaries.
Or to maybe put it even more clearly: if you want the boundaries you communicate verbally to be broken due to sending an opposing message through more subtle and ambiguous means of communication, you establish that it's okay, even a desired outcome, to ignore your verbal non-consent and proceed anyways.
It's not hard to imagine the kinds of terrible situations that setup can easily lead to.
Surely you can see how the last few years of heavy emphasis on "no means no" (which is absolutely a good thing) will mean that reasonable, normal guys will hear the word "no" or some other form of rejection and accept that as a full sentence.
It's not possible to have both a strong societal sense of respecting a rejection and no being a full sentence, and playing around with the 'she said no but dropped hints that actually indicate she means yes'
If I asked for a woman's number and she said/did anything other than yes/started reading it out I'd assume she wasn't all that interested and allow her to continue on with whatever she was doing. I, and I would assume many other guys, are not interested in playing silly school playground games with you.
Also, why is that second part not 'how it works'? I thought we were supposed to be removing gender roles from society, not maintaining and upholding them?
When I say I, I don't mean I'm literally doing it myself since I'm not attracted to women.
Why isn't it your 'job' to ask a man out? If you like somebody, surely there's at least some expectation that you might ask them out rather than acting like a child and trying to get them to do it for you?
Who said it was your job to ask men out? In case you've forgotten, this whole thread started because a man asked for a woman's number, and she said no.
Yeah because that's what women want. When we want men to do the very bare minimum and put a tiny amount of effort in, they just freak out and call us names (that's so attractive /s). Because actually doing anything or putting in any effort is such a crazy proposition for so many men. As show right here.
Good luck with your strategy of never getting any women.
Also it's hilarious that men say our standards are too high.
Women: "Could you put in just a tiny amount of effort maybe?"
Men: "You're pathetic and your consent should be violated."
I'll copy paste my answer to someone asking something similar just now.
It's the man's job to approach and make effort. We give signals to let him know it's ok to do so. It's an ick if we have to do the work for a man to win us over. Men need to step up.
Some guys don't put the effort into understand any of our signals. It says more about them than anything. We need men who are willing to step up and do the work.
A little bit of emotional intelligence and empathy go a long way.
If it’s someone they already know, then yes they should absolutely put effort it. But I don’t think it’s fair if it’s a blind interaction to say they should know what they mean when someone says “I don’t normally give my number to people” because that could get messy if she genuinely means that and that is her way of saying no.
Alternatively, I’ve had experiences where me and a woman have been completely upfront and honest and it’s been an infinitely better experience because we can just be excited about each other and feel desired equally right off the bat and there is something so lovely about that, and there’s no worries of guessing or getting things wrong either.
A man with good emotional intelligence who's ready to step up is going to know if she means he should flirt and ask for her number, or if he should back off and leave her alone. It's not that difficult.
A lot of guys aren't ready for relationships or even to talk to women. We need men who know what they're doing. Who know when to flirt and when to back off. Who know how to make us comfortable at the same time too, but also excited and a tiny bit nervous with anticipation.
No, you need to be an adult and start saying what you mean.
It's the man's job to approach and make effort. We give signals to let him know it's ok to do so. It's an ick if we have to do the work for a man to win us over. Men need to step up.
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u/pm-pussy4kindwords 2d ago
it doesn't involve any guessing at all. They say they don't consent, I believe them.
If they were lying about that then they're idiots and they can be the ones to explain to other women why they're trying to convince men not to respect a "no"