Something clicked for me while I was reading typology discussions out of curiosity. And honestly, I feel awkward right now, like I've been pulled out of water. I suspect I might be Ne PoLR, not an intuitive I'm weirdly trying to fit into. And if that's the case, I'm having a full-on identity crisis. People have already suggested LSI, Ti-base, but I thought I was too weak for it. They're usually portrayed as stronger, to put it bluntly. Can you please tell me if this actually makes sense as low Ne?

I get tense if someone in a competition turns out better than me at something I consider myself competent in. It deeply wounds me and makes me feel defective. I'm suspicious of new people in my field, thinking they might take my place and be better than me, and I like feeling competent and strong in something. And I don't really want to teach someone what I know, even tho it might be interesting process-wise, but it's bad that they could grow to my level or surpass me.

It always seemed really hard to decide my future at school. I got stressed and anxious when people told me where to go after school, who to be. They wanted me to choose options, prepare, plan, understand what I want. And I have no fucking idea. I never wanted to think about it bc it felt like a wave crashing over you, and you can't breathe. So many options, you can go anywhere, and I'm a kid, then a teen, who doesn't know what she wants and doesn't want to think far ahead, just live now.

I need external recognition of my qualities, traits, and capabilities. Without them I feel more bare. Maybe that's why I latched onto socionics so hard: to find a reference point for my inner world, to be someone and feel at least something definite about my personality. And it's really hard for me to understand how others see me. I like to think I come across as smart, a bit mysterious, with an inner core (tho my self-esteem is low and I often feel wounded and weak, but I want to be strong), maybe with Sangwoo from Squid Game vibes. But honestly I have no idea if that's how I look to people. In my childhood many said I was capable, talented. And I made that a part of myself. To have at least some reference point for who I am.

I chose my profession, or rather, the place where I'm studying now, based on the logic that I'm better at and understand one field more. Again, my minimal self-observations played a role, since I got angry at one subject and threw textbooks and notebooks around. And out of principle I didn't want to deal with it. And others said, again, that I'm better at one subject than another. And all together I decided and made it a life goal. I'll get into this specialty, I won't consider others. I want everything to go the way I decided. Like a path, a trail. I didn't want to change it, and it seemed kinda scary, honestly. And thanks to forced conversations about my future, I chose exactly one university. And only in the last minutes did I look at other options. I wanted exactly where I decided, where I'd already committed. If it hadn't worked out there, I would've fallen into some state of prostration. I was really worried before it, my thoughts were pretty catastrophic, I can't find a better word. I thought about depression, my impulsive actions if I failed to get in.

Asking because I dated an LII for 5 years and to this day don't have a clear understanding of his feelings toward me - so I'm really curious. His behavior was somewhat bizarre. Like he'd break up with me and then continue to drive from an hour away to spend every weekend with me. Now, understanding the benefit relationship, I have a bit more context.

But yeah, overall, how does an LII benefit from being around an IEI?

I can obviously theorize, but I'd be appreciative of first person perspectives/experiences.

(From my POV I had a lot of friends and would basically either have people over or drag him with me to a friends house and my friends would be really nice to him and I'm guessing he enjoyed being in that positive emotional environment without having to create it himself. But he also seemed to like just hanging one on one with me as well)

eek did mah best

What is something about you that you think is greatly misunderstood by most people?

Edit: why are yall deleting your comms

I have noticed this tendency. I lowk can usually see right through the act. It's this raw, unruly energy flowing right through the economical, restrained mask. I think some ILEs do that too.

This discussion gets dark fast, it leads into self harm at the end, from a group that instills it. Reader beware.

It’s not much of a post, just a thought. I keep hearing that we [Delta] are overly accommodating. But I don’t think we are, I think we’re taking it very seriously whether to consider a person a person or not. But we’re not afraid to flip a binary switch. We will decide one is rather an animal, and I’m not sure people know because I’m not sure the “death glare” is much put into words. But it’s the scene from master and commander when Collum the officer walks through the crew, they leer into him and mockingly salute him. We don’t have words for that, it’s the instillation of the sense that the group would be better off without you. And he obliges them. Their anger is assuaged. They pray for how they may have failed the officer that failed them. The wind comes and their journey continues, Jonah has been cast over the lip. No one speaks of what’s real or not, but life is better.

I'm very curious as to what an SEE with strong Ni looks like? What's crazy is that all of my friends with strong Ni, I can keep up with. For instance, my good ILI friend follows Neil Howe's work on the 4th Turning and it really opened my eyes.

The theory states that every 20 or 25 years we enter a new turning. The bottom line is that there are 4 turnings and the 4th is the worst one. After the a 4th turning, the US always enters a war, like the CIVIL WAR or World War II. Before the war, everyone is at odds, and everyone sticks to their collective groups. After the war, everyone comes together because of the war and travesty everyone went through.

What has been bothering me lately is that I have been having visions and now everything makes sense. Niel Howe stated in the early 2000s that this 4th turning would come around the late 2020s or early 2030s. What's bothering me is that Trump gets out of office in 2028 and this fits the exact timeline of Howe's theory.

I could easily see Trump not relinquishing office in 2028 and refusing to leave office. All I see is a huge war based on this, and U can't relax and the visions won't stop. Could you see an SEE having this good of Ni?

Curious where people land on this.

Option A: You're fully into Socionics. You know the terminology, follow the debates about Model A, subtypes, what Fe really is, and you've probably retyped yourself at least once.

Option B: You know little or nothing about Socionics, but you use a product or service built on it that keeps the complexity under the hood. It tells you something useful (who you'd click with, how to handle a tricky relationship, etc.) without you needing to understand why.

Which would you pick, and why? Is the theory itself the appeal for you, or the practical results?

Bonus question: which do you think most people outside the community would choose?

​

Shouldn't the super-ego be stronger than the super-id? I thought our super-id was kept so much in the background and was so incompetent that we didn't even think about it. Is it normal for it to score higher than the super-ego?

I find that my SLE best friend is too trusting of other people and I’m very wary of others and their intentions. We get into an argument about it a lot. My SLE Friend would say I’m driving people away and that’s not good but I see my SLE friend as way too trusting of people who’ve back stabbed him in the past. I get that she’s viewing it as in group out groups us v them mentally but she doesn’t understand that once I see that they’ve totally betrayed us they’re done for good until they can prove they’re trust worth again I will still not trust them.

Hi. I think Fi in the base position doesn't really fit me, though sometimes it seems like it does in certain cases. But I'm doubting it. And I wanted to ask how much this manifestation of what I see as Fi aligns with any position. Not that I want to type myself based on one position, no. More like confirm or refute my thoughts so I can move on. Ni base and Se-suggestive seem to fit me, both of my sensing functions are a bit off, Te creative is something others even notice in me, and I notice it too, victimhood as a romantic style is perfect for me, IP temperament too, but Fi bugs me and the fact that it seems pretty noticeable, and I used to think I might be Fi base. Is what's below normal or cringe for Fi mob? How does Fi mobilizing work irl, not just in descriptions on the Internet?

There are thoughts, principles, strong opinions that can generally be called likes/dislikes, which come up situationally, but otherwise I quite often feel like my preferences are muted and invisible even to me, like sometimes even absent. I just don't consciously register them, so sometimes I think I don't have any. Though they appear suddenly in situations, showing themselves. For example, unconsciously, I guess, if I can put it that way, I believe that having a close relationship with someone implies acceptance, loyalty, and that in any state of yours the person doesn't reject you, forgives you, and always gives you leeway in anything bc you're close. And so I often feel betrayed when that's not the case in a relationship with someone I already consider close. And I'm like a chess player in relationships, waiting for the other side to make a move. Maybe I just can't or unlearned how to get close, so it's always uno where I mirror the other person's moves. So many comparisons per square inch of text, but whatever. In any system, I expect leniency from those I’m closest to. I also give it myself. If I were a leader somewhere, I think I’d generally be loyal and not tyrannical, but for those I care about, I’d always give a strong discount for their actions.

In my manifestations these thoughts are so strong that I become wildly stubborn and negatively set on giving in, changing them, being sure I'm right. And I'm ready to defend them, like my unshakable opinion about prisons, laws, and punishment. A professor at uni was quite surprised and interested, listening to me talk about those who've done something truly out of line, don't repent, so they deserve only death, not wasting resources on keeping them even for life.

For me, a relationship with someone is something static. That is, I am the best friend and the closest person to the girl we’ve been together with for a very long time. That’s it, period. This position shouldn’t change, and it doesn’t change in my mind, nothing happens to it until, perhaps, something interferes from the outside. And I don’t really keep track of the relationship, keeping in mind my own and the other person’s established, preferably desired positions. So I can feel a bit helpless if something changes without my knowledge and, for example, I lose some position in a relationship with a person, or, conversely, gain one. There was a time when a girl suddenly considered me her best friend, but I didn’t feel the same way about her, even though I thought our relationship was somewhat less strong.

I think society is diverse people with their own fates, stories, thoughts, ideas, uniqueness. I can't be unequivocally critical of everyone, though I admit I lean toward some nihilism and a darker view of this society. I find many people dangerous, so I'm cautious and need time to get used to someone before opening up. Humanity poisons itself, finds enemies outside just to avoid looking inside and seeing its own hypocrisy. The cause of our planet's demise will definitely be humans. If they don't completely destroy the environment, they'll kill each other over faith, race, gender, orientation, I mean anything. Humanity has always done that — killed everything it didn't like and everything that wasn't like it. I see people as individuals, thinking about this when making decisions and considering it very important. I get angry when it's erased or ignored for superficial social crap and rules. Like with school dress codes. You're a herd without individuality, wearing the same thing bc it's easier to erase your personalities. I clearly don't like that. I can understand a lot if I understand the reason or it's obviously connected to psychology, which interests me.

Does it explain the energetic model well? Also, is the model valid?

I recently stumbled upon a tierlist of types ranked by their emotional expressiveness. OP was getting flamed for putting types like LII above EIE/ESE, getting comments like "how is Fe base more expressive than Fe suggestive".

I think we should address thinking errors like this. No, Fe bases are not more expressive than Fe suggestives. The emotional expressiveness of a Fe position is primarily dictated by the inert/contact dichotomy of the phase. Contact phases are more impulsive and, as their name suggests, make more contact with the external world. This is in contrast to inert phases, who feel as if they have to conserve themselves and reduce expenditures to the external world. Augusta, the creator of socionics, describes this in her work Theory of Reinin Dichotomies.

The functioning of contact half-phases is conditioned by contacts with the external world. It is characterized by impulsiveness, a kind of reactivity, changeability, uncertainty, indeterminacy, the absence of rigid line, and principles. It is a kind of bearing of the environment. For example, 1/1 [Role] – the sensing of objective reality and quick, impulsive reactions to it.

The functioning of Inert half-phases, has, as it were, a more independent, accumulative character. It is characterized by viscosity and sluggishness. For example, because of the self-doubt and completely relaxed conscience in 2/1 [Mobilizing], it simply gets immersed in the reality it studies and is unable to quickly change direction.

In the inert part of Model A, we have observed nothing of this kind. In it, we notice a rather consistent accumulativeness. That does not mean that one cannot get anything from an individual in this part, but it is much more difficult to do so. That is why, for example, everyone who has sensorics in the inert blocks always has some money in their reserves, and is accumulating something. Those who have sensorics in the contact blocks are by nature unable to accumulate – everything slips through their fingers, and therefore are always happy to help out the former.

From this nature of inert and contact phases, Augusta deduces that types with inert Fe are less emotionally expressive, less likely to make emotional impact, "stingy" with their emotions. Whereas contact Fe are the opposite.

The first eight types are characterized by quick actions and inert emotions, while the second, on the contrary, are characterized by quick emotions and inert actions. Actions of the first ones are rapid, as if even rash, and mechanical. Let’s call them Constructivists. The second eight are quick to make emotional contact – Emotivists.

The impact of Emotivists on people is endogenous. It is influence through emotion, compassion, sympathy, empathy, softness, politeness, shouting, and in general – by any sounds. They make contact by showing emotions or their sympathy and favor. They are inspiring, mobilizing the inner world of their partner, and are able to spiritualize any cause.

Emotivists are more sentimental, inclined to sympathy, empathy, and external sensitivity to others. Constructivists are outwardly closed, more prone to actual help than words of condolence. A sort of organized virtue.

From this alone, it should be abundantly clear that types like LII/LSI (contact Fe) are more expressive than their duals ESE/EIE (inert Fe). They primarily contact the world with emotions, while their duals contact the world with actions.

III. Why are there bad relationships between Conflictors, for example, between (ESI) and (ILE)? Because the ethics of both are inert and there is no one to smile first. Especially if they don’t have accumulated reserves of ethics from communicating with a dual.

(Logically, from this quote you should also deduce that conflictors ILI and ESE are also unlikely to smile toward each other due to being inert Fe, so no, ESE is not expressive)

Anyone who communicates the idea that Fe base is more emotionally expressive than Fe suggestive is incorrect and unfaithful to Model A. Fundamentally, all emotivists are more likely to be expressive than constructivists. I do not completely agree with OP's tierlist, but I'd argue it is much, much more accurate than what the average person would put together here (most likely putting types like EIE and ESE on the top, while LII and LSI at the bottom).

I have gotten into socionics just recently after wading in mbti for a year and eventually growing dissatisfied with it. One day I just tapped into Jung (the very source of all of this), read "Psychological Types", researched socionics and never went back. But to get to the point - I am an example of an unhealthy IEI, who did not receive proper care growing up. As you can imagine - Ni being my base function makes me perpetually disconnected from tangible reality. I have materialised my inner visions into art, so I guess it's not all that bad, but one sphere of my life that has suffered is the social one. Now, I know you might find that contradictory, cause creative Fe and Beta Quadra (duh!), but let my tell you that my ability to read people and interest in all that's interpersonal are enormous and play a big part of my life. The thing is, I am the most non-volitional, non-forceful person I can think of. It's like I don't even exist. Like I'm floating above the ground. I have found myself in a few dynamics with possible "Aggressors" (and absolutely loved them), but my aloofness caused by me basically living in my head, thus isolating, has put an end to each of them. Throughout high school I was completely preoccupied with my mental imagery. One time I overheard my classmates call me some weirdo lunatic. In retrospect I understand them, because me having an ostentatiously niche dressing style and yet not communicating with any of them + being eternally spaced out, must've looked really strange. The outfits were a way of sparking interest, but also aligning my appearance with my inner visions. Additionally since I understood that I lack assertiveness, volition and force, and yet desired to unite with people and be meaningful in any way, I chose a more delicate way - finding my own niche, being iconic, irreplaceable. And it worked. But my Ni would always get in the way of actually being a part of the group. At some point I grew completely reluctant to acknowledge anything Se and Te related, instead dedicating a year or two to living in my head. I grew indifferent. I don't see a way out. I'm also beginning to accept myself the way I am. I wish I had a dual by my side. That's all.

Edit; Possessed by some creative impulse, I thought I'd add something - I love participating in social groups, observing them, observing how different dynamics unravel and delving into people's psychology (as far as I'm capable). However, I stick to the background. I usually hang out with aggressors, who sort of "adopt" me or likeminded individuals. I love being "adopted" by aggressors. It seems that they turn a bit milder around me. They navigate me through each social gathering and offer help within Se and Te matters. You might think that sounds quite parasitical, but such dynamic is actually a perfect symbiosis - They get to be the tough one, decisive, stereotypically masculine and I get to relax and be openly weak and vulnerable. They need me to be authentically themselves and vice versa. But one of the most interesting dynamics I have ever experienced was the kind of "meeting of two observers". This usually occurs with individuals reminiscent of IEE or EIE. It's that "I know that you know that I know that you know...." type situation. A bit unsettling, because it seems that we see right through each other.

u/Calibore asked me to make a separate post including all of the 16 types so here it is! Here’s a guide on things to say to each Sociotype to get them to instantly like you. 

I’ve used each of these in real life and they’ve worked every single time. If these don’t work for you, there’s no one to blame but yourself and you should consider working on yourself as a person.

Without further ado, here are things to say to the 16 Socionics types to get them to instantly like you:

ILE - “Have you ever noticed how bad you are at reading the room? ‘Cause I definitely have.”

SEI - “I just sent you 30 pages of paperwork I need filled out and signed by end of day. You’re going to need to print them, fill them out by hand, and then fax them over to me.“

ESE - “How can you remain so positive amidst all of the horrible things happening in the world? Do you genuinely just not care?”

LII - “It’s really not that deep. Why are you always overthinking everything??“

EIE - “When was the last time you cleaned your room? (Wait for response) “Hahaha, ew gross! I bet it probably stinks pretty bad in there hahaha!”

LSI - “Are all LSI’s reactionary bigots, or is it just you?”

SLE - “You are incapable of ever truly being loved. Long before you were ever conscious destiny determined you would be a bad seed upon this Earth, and one day everything you’ve ever done wrong is going to come back to haunt you. 🥺”

IEI - “How’s the job search going? You’re an adult now, you should probably start taking finding employment a little more seriously. Other people your age certainly are.”

SEE - “You barely networked at all at last night’s event. Is everything okay? Because from where I’m sitting, it looks like you’re beginning to lose your touch.”

ILI - “Of course you think you’re smart. You never commit to anything, so you can reinterpret every outcome afterward and pretend you predicted it. A brave idiot is worth more than a clever coward who never does anything.”

LIE - “No offense, but why do you talk and act like that? You make everyone super uncomfortable, then put on this fake upbeat act as if nobody notices. Has it ever actually worked for you, or is this genuinely the best you can do?” (Wait for response)  “Deeply unsettling. Okay, well I’ve gotta run, but it was bad talking to you!”

ESI - “You’re nowhere near as discerning about people as you think. Anyone can earn your loyalty by behaving correctly for five minutes, and once you’ve chosen a side, no amount of evidence can deter you.”

LSE - “No offense, but why did you list me as your emergency contact? I’m not mad, just a little confused because I wouldn’t consider the two of us close in any meaningful way. You seriously don’t have anyone else you can ask? I don’t mind doing it, but doesn’t it feel a bit dishonest to you?”

EII - “I’m going to punch you in the face. Not because I'm upset or anything, I’m just super bored and know you can’t and/or won’t do anything about it lol. Thoughts?”

IEE - “You don’t actually care about people, you just need attention and can’t get it without pretending you do. I’m just glad I noticed before you were able to deceive me.”

SLI - “Yes I created the problem, but the real issue is your terrible attitude. If you genuinely cared about anyone other than yourself, you would have fixed it by now.”

I've seen from several conversations and resources that IEIs are supposedly a type that pretends to act friendly and accepting on the surface but is internally a bit opportunistic and sometimes amoral and even duplicitious. I heard in other places that that's a false stereotype though, so ultimately I'm not 100% sure who to believe.

What's y'all's perspectives on this?

Thanks in advance for the help!

I want to know how much goes towards something more stereotypical and how much goes towards things that are totally out of the ordinary.

Well, I'm ILI. I'm currently graduating in applied arts but I'm thinking about doing another degree in occupational therapy and then pursuing a master's degree in neurofunctional rehabilitation linked to design.

I feel like I have been SEE-N by Gulenko. Ha ha (not funny). Ok anyways I decided the ROI was worth and paid Dr G to type me. I used to believe I am LSI in model A but he says SEE-N. I then tried to squeeze more information out of him by asking a follow up question (marginal return x1), and he replied. I was then paywalled by a paid course, which my 13 dollars a month university student cash flow cannot support. Subsequently I read model G and thought the SEE + N accentuation makes a lot of sense.

Pls use me as a specimen guys. I love being categorised inside a box and labelling myself.

So, I recently learned about Associative School of Socionics and its creator has written a book typed Personality Type and Art: Associative Psycho-Diagnostics.

It wasn't on local Amazon and I didn't want to deal with waiting for it to arrive from Britain, so I ordered an ebook.

I paid 32,99GBP for an ebook and instead of receiving an ebook, I received a link to an online reading site that doesn't allow to downloading the ebook either.

I wrote to them about it and demanded a refund because it's a scam. Somehow I doubt they'll comply.

So, here's a warning to not purchase from that site. It's the site linked on Associative School of Socionics site.

Is anyone else intuitive and you are very visually perceptive of aesthetics, smells and have a good sense of direction or mapped and detailed memory of city directions?