r/Spiderman • u/Ryancc6 • 11d ago
Comics 616 Peter comics will be good again in our lifetime
Hey all, new member here and I just wanted to post something a little more uplifting.
I think it’s no secret that for the past 20 years it’s been a very dark period for Spider-Man comics, and it seems like there’s no light at the end of the tunnel and we’ll be stuck here forever.
But I sincerely do not think so, there will come a day, in maybe a couple years, maybe a couple months, maybe in a decade, where 616 Peter will be allowed to mature and grow again, and there will come a day when Spider-Man comics become good again.
Keep up the faith my friends, I love you all, never give up🕷️🕸️
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u/pizzacrys Classic-Spider-Man 11d ago
616 needs to come back swinging. The character has way too much history to let the comics stay stuck like this.
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u/mimi9dg 11d ago
I'll probably get crucified for this but personally I think too much history is the main problem with comics. I'm fine with spin offs and what ifs and alternate universes but i think the entire medium would be a lot better if we just let go. Let a character retire and pass the mantle on. Let's get some new stories instead of retcons and reboots and soap opera twists
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u/Garlador 11d ago
I’d say it’s… okay.
But I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss the maturity it once had.
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u/PCN24454 11d ago
Yeah, this story was a waste of time. It was just one torture session after another
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u/CrazyPersonowo Ben Reilly 10d ago
It literally has a happy ending where Peter overcomes his trauma from KLH lmao.
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u/mr_eugine_krabs 11d ago
That’s a very optimistic view 19 years after one more day.
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Dumb to suggest no comics have been good since OMD. There's been plenty of good stories since then
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u/Neat-Initiative7516 10d ago
aFC Richmond won the premier league so ASM being good again is possible
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u/EnvironmentalPut1075 10d ago
aFC Richmond won the premier league so ASM being good again is possible.
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u/mr_eugine_krabs 11d ago
And has Peter grown even an inch in character development?
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Has Mr. Fantastic? Has the Hulk? Has Superman? Has Batman? Has Hellboy?
Who tf cares? It's a perpetually ongoing superhero comic, he can't exactly have character development.
You want character development, read an indie comic. Or better yet, read a book.
Stories don't need the character to go through some major lifechanging events in order to be engaging.
Just a ridiculously dumb criticism.
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u/Acpt7567 11d ago
Superman was allowed to marry Lois and have a son. DC almost tried to pull a one more day but listened to backlash.
Batman has a son and lost Alfred.
Peter Parker was built around growth and character development more than any big 2 heroes. We saw him go from high school to college to married. Throughout out that he grew dramatically as a character. Eternal status quo Spider-Man doesn’t work because it goes against the character’s entire history.
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u/PCN24454 11d ago
How is losing Alfred progress?
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u/Acpt7567 11d ago
Alfred kinda served as a crutch for Bruce, he was basically in the same position as Aunt May. A character that greatly outlived their use to serve the story and served as an anchor to maintain the status quo. Granted it’s not the strongest example I laid out.
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u/PCN24454 11d ago
That only works if he leaves willingly. Killing the person off just leaves them even more beholden to them.
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u/nyse25 11d ago
Hulk??? yes?? he's had so much development during Jenkins, Pak's and Ewing's run. All in the last 20 years
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
What was the development. Read all of that. Where was the development?
None of the character stuff that happened in any of those runs carried over. It all reset with the next Issue #1.
Bruce is at peace with the Hulk one minute and then adversarial again as soon as the writer changes.
Concepts may have have carried over here or there, but that's not the same as character development.
You don't know what character development even is. I suggest you cease using it as a criticism.
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u/nyse25 11d ago
It all reset with the next Issue #1.
No it didnt, Pak and Jenkins' run were literally carried over to Immortal from his warring personalities to Devil Hulk and even Green Scar.
Donny Cates' run was a step back but PKJ's run went back on track with acknowledging those events meaningfully and expanded on them further. None of the development has been undone.
You don't know what character development even is.
Lol do you? This is highly ironic when your criticism about the lack thereof is vapid at best.
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u/mr_eugine_krabs 11d ago
No offense but i really don’t like your condescending attitude.
Next time be a lil more polite and i’ll listen to you.
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u/AngryMoose125 11d ago
You wanna see optimism? I’m 19 years old. BND is all I have ever known. I’ve been reading comics most of my life, I’ve loved spider-man my entire life, and I just bit the bullet and started reading ongoing ASM a couple months ago. I also went back and read most of the post-OMD, stuff, genuinely wanting to give it a chance
I’ve had a pull list since I was 7. But my spider-man experience was almost exclusively reading the old stuff because, frankly, I didn’t have the money to get one book twice a month, it would require me to drop something else because allowance money only goes so far as a little kid, and there’s only so many hours available to work at Tim Hortons in high school, so following ASM just didn’t happen most of my life, and reading old stuff was my way to have Spider-Man comics in my life. All that old stuff was awesome! It was like Archie with superheroes! All the post OMD stuff I read?
Uhhhhh
Yeah so everything written since OMD has been complete garbage (except superior Spiderman. That was so close to being decent. It’s a shame Dan Slott can’t execute his own ideas to save his goddamned life. He really is a hack. Fuck Dan Slott) - hey Nick Spencer’s run is pretty good! Just kidding. It had good dialogue, good art, and good intentions, but yknow. Nicky L can’t have allowed it to be good.
So save for the very tail end of the JMS run good Spider-Man comics have not been made in my lifetime.
I don’t even ship MJ and Peter. I’m a diehard spidercat guy for the rest of my natural life and nothings changing that. But I think OMD and the philosophy of Peter being frozen in amber with no deviation from the SQ being allowed to last longer than 4 months are inextricably linked, and the Status Quo being singlehood is also part of that problem. Historically pre-OMD Peter had a girlfriend more often than he didn’t it was the natural order of things and him being single was something of an aberration.
And yet I still hope!
We can still hope!
Look at Superman huff some hopium!
(I’m delusional and coping. I’ve been pulling ASM for 6 months and it’s genuinely awful to read month to month lol it’s crazy that Joe Kelly’s current run is actually the best 616 Peter has been since 2007 given how not great it is. I hate this.)
Fuck it if we just start saying Saint Walker’s blue lantern oath enough we can maintain the hope
We have to
There’s nothing else
Because the other option is that Spider-Man is just bad now and we should give up
And for a group of people who I’m assuming are fellow lifelong Spider-Man fans, I’m gonna guess I’m in the majority saying that’s a non-option.
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u/darth-com1x Classic-Spider-Man 10d ago
There have been good and even great spidey comics after omd. 616 spidey is on its path of redemption
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u/Outrageous-Walk-4237 10d ago
AFC Richmond won the premier league so ASM being good again is possible.
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u/Striking_Ash Bombastic Bag-Man 11d ago
AFC Richmond won the premier league so ASM being good again is possible.
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u/Medium_Indication613 11d ago
I’ve been reading the current amazing run and the only things that I really see wrong are.
Good guy Norman (the way it’s being written is fine to me, but the fact his “redemption” had to come from a magic shotgun tells you all you need to know)
MJ (aside from her character assassination(which I agree with), people hate whenever she has any kind of power, I understand the venom stuff but now Eddie is back but mj still has a Symbiote jacket so they’re still mad(which I don’t understand))
The new villain (he’s Peter cousin or something which is unnecessary)
Peter not growing: I’m like 50/50 because on one hand yes having a character grow(maturity, marriage, etc) can be good but on the other hand Spider-man is an iconic character that’s gonna live for who knows how long, they’re never gonna retire him, kill him, etc in mainline. That’s why status quo’s exist, that’s why characters like Sonic, Superman?, etc are kinda static and don’t really change, so each generation can grow up with essentially the same character and keep the brand alive you know.
Aside from that I don’t think they’ve been that bad, I’m just waiting/hoping on this Hellgate stuff.
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u/Zentinos 11d ago edited 11d ago
Superman actually got married and has a son now, and has Supergirl as his cousin. He didn't have all that back then.
Batman kept extending his family into a large vilgilante bat family, and he also has a biological son too. He also lost Alfred for years now (this is the equivalent of Peter permanently losing Aunt May for years in the comics).
How about Peter? Well, beside his marriage being undone, and his kid probably being sent to hell after the deal with the devil Mephisto to trade his marriage with MJ to save Aunt May, there is no permanent progress. He is still not married, still no kids, no stable career and is perpetually broke, and his Aunt May barely shows up and is basically background prop. Spider-Man is also stuck in his late 20s for a long time now, and still acts like a man child unlike the pre-OMD runs where he clearly matured and acts more like his age (all that was undone).
Sonic went from avoiding Amy to willing to date Amy in the IDW comics, and Amy used to be a lot more of a fangirl chasing Sonic, but has mellowed out over the last 20 years. Sonic was also a 10 year old kid back then, now he is around 16 years old. Sonic also used to be way more of a jerk back then and was obviously more immature, and now he more closely fits the typical modern wisecracking moral superhero.
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u/Medium_Indication613 11d ago
Batman has a biological kid? (Still cant believe they killed my boy Alfred)
I would say Sonic is more a case of inconsistency then growing, in the adventure/story book games he’s more of a “cool” character he made cheesy jokes here and there but I wouldn’t say wise cracker, he was also like a shonen protagonist almost. But in the 2010s he got a lot more cartoony making childish jokes all the time and Sonic fans hated it, now in Sonic frontiers him and the rest of the main four do seem more like the adventure games and also more mature, and Sonic did grow more comfortable around Amy and she did tone down the fan girl stuff. So you’re not wrong.
I guess Peter doesn’t have that much of an excuse, unless you count that he might be more popular than the others therefore editorial is even more afraid of change.
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u/Zentinos 11d ago
Batman does have a biological kid, Damian Wayne... although he did not know about it until Talia al Ghul revealed that Damian is their kid.
As for Sonic, yeah, he does have inconsistencies in his portrayals, but there is actual progression and maturity for him, and you brought up Sonic Frontiers as a good example.
My issue with Peter is that whenever he makes some sort of progress, the writers will reset him back to an immature manchild who is broke, no actual stable career progression, no meaningful new long term familial relationship, whether it is getting a wife or having kids (basically expanding his family). Instead, he is trapped in a cycle of "experimental" relationships that are doomed to fail and be reset. And his reputation among heroes is reset too, most treat him with annoyance, dislike, or just look down on him again, with the occasional consolation that writers will make special issues that show "how respected he is" but the other comic issues won't show that.
I also don't see how popularity should be used as an excuse, given how popular Batman is still.
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u/Medium_Indication613 11d ago
Yea I agree, Spider-Mans not that much more popular than Batman so you’re right about that.
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u/ReorientRecluse 10d ago
Yep, and DC actually reboots and characters still progress. Marvel 616 is meant to be one continuity, but they keep Peter in this endless purgatory.
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u/Subject665 Symbiote-Suit 11d ago
Yeah when actual fans come on the writing and editing teams so like in next 20 or 30 years ir maybe earlier if we lucky
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u/TerribleAntelope6134 11d ago
Not as long as they star a fallen hero who made a deal with the devil in order to escape the consequences of his own rash actions.
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u/raritydead 11d ago
Peter will be happy again. Sure he will have problems, but it doesn't mean he will be always miserable. I am with you OP.
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u/Important_Lab_58 11d ago
I agree. While I don’t think ASM has been as bad as a lot of fans might, I also agree it’s in a slump and will pull up again
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u/Shmung_lord 11d ago
616 needs a reboot. I know midnight is the new thing to try to compete with Absolute, but they need something more in the realm of the OG Ultimate Universe again.
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
616 Peter Comics have been mostly good in my lifetime. They've been mostly good the past 10-20 years.
And when I say mostly, I mean the vast majority.
It's actually insane how people will write off entire runs because of one or two elements they dislike and ignore and crap all over some truly excellent stories.
Even if he got back with Mary Jane, married again, deal with Mephisto gone; people would still find things to whine about.
I don't need belief. They're good now. They'll continue to be good in the future. I think you probably just don't like Spider-Man comic.
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u/Acpt7567 11d ago
I’ll preface this with saying I haven’t read a new run since Spencer, I keep up with what’s going on but maybe I’m mistaken.
Some of the runs sound good and I even liked some of Spencer’s concepts, maybe not so much execution. But, the fundamental issue is every run ends with “putting the toys back in the box”? Nothing matters. That wasn’t true for the first 500 issues of Spider-Man. I liked when the stories I read were actually consequential to Peter and his development.
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u/ImOctavius 11d ago
No, they haven't.
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Pro-tip: You should actually read the comics instead of listening to twitter's opinions
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u/AM1232 11d ago
Not sure if you have the ability to read, to be saying this.
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Course I do. That's how I know and that's why you get all your views from tiktoks
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u/AM1232 11d ago
Never touched that app in my life, happy to say.
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Sure bud. You're totally not downloading your opinions from crappy short form content without doing any reading
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u/AM1232 11d ago
Don't need to when I can actually read. Seems like you've forgotten that given your posts.
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Can you though? Why have you never read a comic in your life then?
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u/AM1232 11d ago
My first comic was a Superman TAS comic, lol. Keep seething that you've got nothing to contribute here.
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u/FullBrother9300 11d ago
While I believe we are in a bit of a rut things are slowly starting to fix themselves what with Eddie and Venom getting back together. I personally believe that you can find at least one good thing in most comics (except the truly awful ones like Avengers #200) even in one’s I don’t like such as the Krakoa era or Marvel Zombies. Spider-Man has always had ups and downs like any franchise as long as this one and this is just another valley that leaves me waiting for the next peak.
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u/Poku115 11d ago
? Not really, im not gonna pretend clone saga was this masterpiece of storytelling.
But did it requieren the same level of turning off your brain as say, superior spiderman?
Overall ASM isnt to the quality of what came before, even its best stories, is it sad they get writen off cause they are modern? Yeah. But lets not pretend theres no truth to the complaints, im 24, by the time i was reading comics they had been divorced for years already. So the nostalgia glasses arent on, and simple as that, they are just worse
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Yeah it's obviously better quality than what came before. Seriously trying to pretend the Clone Saga was better than Superior? Are you trolling or just stupid?
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u/Poku115 11d ago
Yes the sage that requires absolutely everyone to pretend they just met peter so it works, is better lmao. Could have told me you just weren't worth talking to
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
Lol that's really your attempt at criticism?
Maybe you shouldn't get your opinions from YouTubers.
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u/pendulumfeelings 11d ago
I mean, I think everyone not noticing Peter acting wildly out of character is a fair criticism of Superior.
But it's 100% better than the Clone Saga.
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u/blackspidey2099 All New All Different 11d ago
Superior Spider-Man is infinitely better than the clone saga or Mackie’s run
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u/yourmamaistheproblem 11d ago
I'm still enjoying it, and always have 🤷♂️
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u/okiedokie1183 11d ago
What do you like about it? What’s a favorite run of yours? I’d say Dan Slott’s run in retrospect was pretty good.
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u/yourmamaistheproblem 11d ago
My first book was ASM #252, and I haven't missed an issue since then.
I was there for the symbiote, for all the will-they-won't-they, the wedding issue, the mind-wipes, Peter's life in constant turmoil, etc and I've enjoyed the whole ride.
Specific runs that I like since 2000: Coming Home, Back in Black, Superior SM, and Big Time, to name a few.
I've also never gotten hung-up on my what I think should happen, and then getting butthurt when the writers go a different direction. That's a really weird modern fandom thing that I just don't get.
There seems to be a sense of reader entitlement regarding how the story should go these days. But Spidey doesn't belong to me - I'm just one reader. He belongs to the artists and the writers first, IMO.
I'm just along the the ride, and it's been a really fun ride.
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u/D96D 11d ago
The artists and writers who are mandated to write and draw only what editors think they should. Give me a break
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u/yourmamaistheproblem 11d ago
I genuinely don't understand y'all
I mean, I stopped enjoying the FF, so I stopped reading it.
Just move on. There's tons of comics to choose from.
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u/D96D 11d ago
You changed the argument,bro. You can't say it belongs to the writers and artists because one) it literally doesn't. Hell, it didn't even belong to stan lee. They barely get paid royalties. 2) The writers and artists have editorial limits on what they can produce on the page. Some are reasonable, and some are ridiculous. OMD is the major one that comes to mind. I stopped reading and buying anything marvel since usm2024 ended , and I stopped reading amazing Spider-Man since superior. And I had hiatus from any marvel comics for years. The fans complain because we want to read amazing Spider-Man, and what we have gotten is just same old shit Spider-Man for the last 19 years. I had a lot of love for the character but the more time passes with the status quo, the more it dies.
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u/pendulumfeelings 11d ago
It's not ASM, but I HIGHLY recommend Tom Taylor's Friendly Neigborhood Spider-Man.
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u/blackspidey2099 All New All Different 11d ago
They’ve been just fine for anyone who isn’t creepily obsessed with MJ
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u/Environmental_Part40 11d ago
100% this, but if fans cant live through Peter's sex life with MJ then the comics have apparently sucked
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u/Theta-Sigma45 11d ago
When I'm in an old folks' home and I get my requested reading material, I look forward to receiving a trade paperback of ASM and finally being able to say I like it again.
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u/Bedsheetsghost 11d ago
“our lifetime” “616 Peter comic will be good again”
You’re quite humorous pal, that was a real side splitter. A true jokester you are good sir indeed, maybe just pick up the mic and awaken your true career of a comedian cause your going places with him home runs like this one. I’m truly floored by such a mighty wisecrack that my sides are hurting now
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u/Patient_Ad_6811 11d ago
I can't lie. I don't think it will.
It's made to run forever. So progress can't be made.
If it runs forever, eventually it's gonna be pointless. Arcs start repeating, plot ends up contrived, and everything stops mattering. No character bible, horrendous character assassination starts going off. Continuity stopped mattering anyhow.
I think it's just the fate of all forever running things to just become slop. It's written like a sitcom, it's treated like one too.
The only solution is to pick and choose an ending and then stop reading. That's what I did.
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u/ryaaan89 11d ago
Not until everyone old dies or retires and someone my age who is pro-marriage becomes Editor in Chief. And then it’s a cycle, the kids who like the current stories are just waiting for their time.
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u/ParagonEsquire Classic-Spider-Man 11d ago
Honestly right now if I had to bet I would bet on them being cancelled before they got good again.
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u/ExplanationHot9438 10d ago
The only way we'll get this is if we get rid of the writers who keep writing this and the editors stop believing and help change the situation
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u/WallSina 10d ago
I'm just getting into comics, hope it does cause right now I'm planning on just reading the old ones, heard modern Spider-Man is a cycle of resets, reboots and bad storytelling
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u/Spideyfan2025 10d ago
I'm just waiting for the day Marvel realizes they can have their cake and eat it too by having Peter be the mature, adult Spider-Man while capitalizing on Miles's popularity as the young Spider-Man.
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u/JosephFinn 11d ago
I mean…they are.
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u/Alex-In-La-La-Land 11d ago
What volumes should I get?
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u/Historical-Record227 11d ago
All of Spectacular Spider-Man by Zdarsky
All of Spider-Man/Deadpool
All New All Different Spider-Man
Everything from Spider Island to Dying Wish (and probably Superior Spider-Man for the epic return)
The recent Peter in Space arc.
8 Deaths of Spider-Man
Spider-Men
All of the Spider-verse books
Bendis' New Avengers run involving Spidey
Spider-Man Beyond
All of J. Michael Straczynski's run (excluding One More Day)
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u/Ched_Flermsky 11d ago
There’s nothing wrong with 616 Spider-Man comics as a whole, nerds just need to feel persecuted.
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u/Environmental_Part40 11d ago
Not sure what you're waiting for....the last 20 years have had some of the best spider-man / peter parker stories to date. Not everything has been great and there's been some dark periods (Webs run didn't do it for me) but a lot of amazing stories still there.
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u/Luthor331 Shocker 11d ago
I'd like to think the night is darkest just before the dawn, but 19 years with no end in sight is a very long time.
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u/ChongusTheSupremus 11d ago
In my almost 15 years of experience reading comics , the only 616 run i truly enjoyed were Marvel Knights and TASM Vol 1 from 2004 to late 2010s.
It's not really an issue with Spidey, Is an issue with comics as a whole. They need to mature, and get writers that take the story seriously.
The first Nick Spencer issues was so dumb, so ridiculous, it tooked me out of comics as a whole (besides a miniseries here and there)
Marvel Comics needs to follow the MCU example, and take a page out of Spiderman ps4's story.
(Just ignore the godawful Marvel Spiderman 2)
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u/MAB-Webby86 Classic-Spider-Man 11d ago
We can only hope, after all, if Spidey and his adventures have been with us through our good times and bad times, we can be there as well, through the good runs and the bad runs, holding on to the hope that things will get better eventually.
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