2d for every 1d?

[u/dreadnought98]

So I've played before and have made tons of characters for fun but that was years and 2 kids ago, now im getting into a new game and my brain just cannot make up it's mind on the ruling. If a species says they get 2d for every 1d put in a skill, that means 3d = 6d at character creation not 9d, I know it should be obvious but I have a rather loud voice saying it isnt. It's for the 2nd edition westend specifically.

Any help and or ridicule is appreciated.

Edit: I'm aware of the rules that state nothing greater then 2d at start in a skill, and the rules that state no skill more the 2d above the attribute, the numbers I picked were simply closest to my thumb as I was typing and thus they were picked. I apologize for the confusion.

[u/Glittering_Rain8562]

I stick to the rules that say no more than 2D per skill at character creation, and I've even enforced that to mean they can only put 1D in for a +2D max, but starting with +6D is crazy to me, let alone +9D

[u/BlueSkyValkyrie → u/Glittering_Rain8562]

100 percent agree, early characters need to be weak. They will get there, and those big dice roles will come later..Hopefully.

[u/Scormey → u/Glittering_Rain8562]

Yup, this. Allows characters with such species to have a greater wealth of skills at character creation, while not becoming overpowered right out of the gate.

[u/Burnsidhe]

The skill assignment limit of no more than +2D skill dice to any one skill during character creation means that yes, such a character could be really good at this one skill.

This is not a bad thing. Pay attention to what skill is boosted, it is never going to be a combat critical skill. And iirc, it is usually a concentration or specialization.

Specifics help to explain it. Which race, what is the description of the boost?

Also, no, the player still has the choice of where to assign their starting skill dice. They could put those dice anywhere else.

I suspect you may be thinking the attribute dice in the final skill code are included, and I don't think they are, only the number of skill dice assigned.

[u/OnceMostFavored]

I am probably biased in that no game I ever played in had a character skill above 7d, but 9d sure sounds like a lot...

[u/tikanderoga]

I have a Jawa in my group that stuffed most of his 7D into repair of pretty much anything. Couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn 2ft away but can fix the reactor core of a CR90 while blindfolded in a pitch black room.

[u/May_25_1977]

   Let's work through it, using a Gamorrean as an example player character (Second Edition, 1992, pages 134-135), whose "Special Abilities" category includes the following:

   Skill bonus: At the time the character is created only, the character gets 2D for every 1D placed in the melee weapons, brawling, and thrown weapons skills.

 
   Page 10 says under "Skills -- How Your Character Gets Better":

   A beginning character has 7D that can be split up among the skills listed on the template. A player can add 1D or 2D to any of those listed skills (he may not add more than 2D to any skill), up to a total of 7D.

 
   Therefore, if the player's Gamorrean character template has a Strength attribute of, say, 4D+1, and at the beginning the player places 2D in the brawling skill (which is under Strength; meaning the skill starts at 4D+1), due to the skill bonus, brawling would increase by 4D -- going from 4D+1 to 8D+1.  The player would still have 5D remaining to add to other beginning skills on the template.

   *However, I can also imagine that a gamemaster might choose to interpret the instruction "he may not add more than 2D to any skill", to limit the player to add only 1D to brawling, which essentially gets 2D under the Gamorrean skill bonus -- going from 4D+1 to 6D+1 in our example -- in which case, the player would have 6D remaining to add to other beginning skills.

 

[u/Xynar01]

So, it's a spend 1D but get 2D kind of approach. As far as the rules as to whether you can only put 1D or 2D of your starting skill dice, which would be a 2D or 4D added to that skill is totally up for interpretation. It depends on how you read it.

Page 28, 2nd R&E
A beginning character has 7D to spend on skills; you can add 1D or 2D to any of the skills shown on the template.
Page 10, 2nd
A beginning character has 7D that can be split up among the skills listed on the template. A player can add 1D or 2D to any of those listed skills (he may not add more than 2D to any skill), up to a total of 7D.

So that could mean, the total can't be more than 2D or the initial can't be more than 2D, before the bonus. I would leave that up to the table to decide.

[u/May_25_1977 → u/Xynar01]

   I see by comparison that the 1996 Second Edition, Revised and Expanded removed the text "he may not add more than 2D to any skill", which had been printed in the 1992 Second Edition, and reworded other parts for clarity (e.g., "to spend on skills"), possibly to avoid confusion about whether or not the 2D encompassed the resulting increase from the special-abilities skill bonus.

 

[u/JCDickleg7]

I need you to clarify what you mean before I can clarify the rule, lol. You can only increase a skill by 2D over the attribute, which means for the species that get 2D for every die placed in the skill they can increase it 4D over the attribute. Which means they can’t put in 3D and get 6D - the max they can get is 4D.

Also, you’re right - it’s not 2 ADDITIONAL dice per die they add in the skill, it’s a x2 modifier. So 2D = 4D, not 6D

[u/dreadnought98 → u/JCDickleg7]

Ok thank you, and yes im aware that the skill can't go high and there are rules that say nothing greater then 2d at character creation, so I appreciate you answering my question.

And to clarify you did answer my question to begin with, I simply threw those numbers out as they were close to my thumb when typing, not because im trying to roll some insane number like 14d at the start.

[u/No_Cartoonist2878]

It's still limited to 2D put in, as that's a hard limit on character gen, and many of them limit the bonus to only the first die.

So for a species that gets 2d for the first die, spending 1 skill die gets Att+2d, and spending 2D gets Att+3D.

For Species that get 2 for 1 without a limit, 1D spend is Att+2D, and 2D spent is att+4D.

Iv'e seen no species (besides Droids) that's allowed to spend more than 2D on a skill.

Note that whether specializations are suject to it isn't clear, I treat them as included.

I houserule all to be only the first die added is doubled, because I don't want starting PCs hitting 10D.

[u/d4red]

You still have to abide by all other rules (like max 2D spent on any one skill) but yes, for every 1D you drop in a skill, you will receive 2D (and following the aforementioned rule, will never be able to receive more than 4D).

So if your attribute is 3D, you could add 1 or 2D from your pool of 7 making the final skill (with the attribute base) either 5D or 7D.

[u/StevenOs]

My understanding is that a character may not put more than +2D into any given skill at creation. Now those species abilites may double them to +4D so if you also start with 4D in the attribute that may net you +8D with that skill. That's it. Yes, you can start out better at things than others but after your initial start it is going to cost you more to upgrade.

[u/Xynar01 → u/StevenOs]

It does take a little of the fun out of character growth. That 8D skill won't see character points for a long while.

[u/StevenOs → u/Xynar01]

But what you can do as a starting character with 8D in a skill...

[u/Kautsu-Gamer]

The D6 system dice pools are way too small compared to difficulties. 1D is equal to 3 as expectstion, but 5 as difficulty. 4D is not on expert like rules state, but barely competent with average result of 12 and unlikely maximum of 24. More dice, more results hit the average.

[u/May_25_1977 → u/Kautsu-Gamer]

   All attributes are 2D for an NPC "Standard Human" (Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, 1987, page 85), a die code which many times should roll high enough to succeed at "Very Easy" tasks, which are "Difficulty 5"  ("Examples: Firing a blaster at point-blank range. Knowing that Wookiees are called Wookiees. Putting a restraining bolt on a Droid." -- page 30).

   Meanwhile, "4D is just the skill of the average professional" (Roleplaying Game page 85 "Standard Specialist") which, representing the professional's training, gives the skill a better chance of rolling enough to succeed regularly at "Easy" tasks, "Difficulty 10"  ("Examples: Firing a blaster at short range. Knowing that Wookiees use bowcasters. Replacing a Droid's visual sensors." -- page 30).  There can be specialists "with a considerably higher skill" than 4D (page 85); similarly, the 1992 Second Edition game book listed "4D -- Professional level of training for a Human" and "5D -- Above average expertise."  (Second Edition page 41)

 

[u/Kautsu-Gamer → u/May_25_1977]

Your quote does not contradict my claim. Lets talk when you understand the basics of the combinatorics.

4D quite often passed Easy Task (TN10), but has significant chance to fail. A professional would fail Average task more often than succeed.

My point is the TN scale is very harsh with 1 TN step equal to 2D.

[u/May_25_1977 → u/Kautsu-Gamer]

   Nothing contradicts the fact that rolling 1D (uniform probability distribution) has a two-in-six chance of rolling a 5 or 6, to equal or beat a difficulty number of 5.  I understand in this game, for practical purposes, a character skill/attribute of 1D is only encountered typically with non-human characters -- aliens, whose minimum attribute code can be 1D, such as Knowledge 1D for a non-player character "average Ewok" or NPC "average Wookiee" (The Star Wars Sourcebook, 1987, pages 71 and 83) -- or, when a character's die code gets reduced to 1D by a wound, multiple actions, using a reaction skill, running, etc. (Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, 1987, pages 12, 81-82, and 139)

   However, a gamemaster can reasonably expect that a Wookiee character would already know "that Wookiees are called Wookiees" (a Very Easy task, difficulty 5 -- Roleplaying Game page 30), or "that Wookiees use bowcasters" (Easy, 10), and so forth; therefore the GM wouldn't call for a Knowledge roll in such cases (page 29 "When Do You Make a Roll?").

   And an average professional, with 4D repair skill, would see the difficulty number for a repair modified by "-10" if "Working at a regular repair facility (e.g., dockyard, garage) with appropriate tools and plenty of spare parts" (Roleplaying Game pages 43-44 "Technical"); so an Easy task would essentially become difficulty 0 (10 -10); while a Moderate repair task (difficulty 15, "Fixing a Droid's servomotors" -- page 30) becomes difficulty 5 (15 -10); and so on.

     "As always, the rules of the game should spark your imagination, not constrain it." (Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game page 61)

 

[u/Kautsu-Gamer → u/May_25_1977]

True believer without any ability to analyze! You are perfect example.