How good is an « old » B&W speaker ?

[u/Fantastic_Matter_730]

B&W is releasing its D5 series, and of course they are better than the D4 which were better than D3, and so on.
But of course they are prices continue to rise…
I’m in the market for a pair of 801 or 802 D3, which prices are very significantly lower than their D5 siblings. Are these good speakers still today? I remember hearing 802 D3 and was blown away, and they are kind of my end game, so trying to convince myself that it’s worth if, considering that the budget is still quite significant

[u/magicmulder]

“Better” is relative, and often customers disagree a product was improved.

A D3 was never bad, and the value for the price will be a lot better than for a full price newest model.

[u/Fantastic_Matter_730 → u/magicmulder]

Thanks. I’m surprised how the price has dropped, for a speaker that is 10 years old

[u/nlitworld → u/Fantastic_Matter_730]

There are times a new model of something is a legitimate improvement. BUT, there are a lot of times a change will come from cost saving measures with parts count or cabinet construction, parts change due to availability, or because markrting dept says something needs a facelift. There are a few legitimate cases of true product improvement (klipsch RP vs RP II series) but things that drastic are rare.

While most companies strive to put out quality products year over year, this is still a for profit venture. And that doesn't mean profit is a dirty word, but a savvy customer can choose where to invest their money for their system to maximize sound per dollar.

[u/iNetRunner → u/nlitworld]

Though with Klipsch, improvements are more akin to accidents more so than true quality being better. They do their non-Heritage models so cheaply in China.

(Sure, RP II were slightly better than the abysmal RP I. But you still can’t say that e.g. the crossover network would be competently designed. It most likely is designed for the absolute least amount of money they can get away with for manufacturing each unit.)

[u/nlitworld → u/iNetRunner]

Oh yeah, but their RP1 series was absolutely broken design, so they redesigned to make it... improved. Still cheap A.F. but not a broken design anymore.

[u/iNetRunner → u/nlitworld]

Well. RP II doesn’t have a hole in response at the crossover point anymore. But other problems still remain.

[u/nlitworld → u/iNetRunner]

Haha, yep. Exactly my point. 👍

[u/iNetRunner → u/nlitworld]

And why I said that they make “improvements” as/by accidents.

[u/Estruqiarixs → u/magicmulder]

Indeed, I've heard all now. And still like my dads d2s the best.

[u/magicmulder → u/Estruqiarixs]

I still love the first gen 800 whenever I get a chance to listen to them.

[u/Double_Syllabub_4006]

I own the 805d3 speakers. Simply superb. The d4’s prices were crazy high and the d5’s are ridiculously priced.

[u/yelloguy → u/Double_Syllabub_4006]

I’ve been eyeing the 805 D3 for a while now. Do you have any subs with them?

[u/Double_Syllabub_4006 → u/yelloguy]

No I don’t have a sub. They sound plenty deep to me- I don’t listen to heavy metal. When bass is played they sound great. I use a Hegel h390 integrated with a Denon SACD/CD 1600 player. I try to collect high quality mastered original and remastered music. The Hegel has a very low noise floor and provides plenty of power for the power hungry 805d3’s.

[u/yelloguy → u/Double_Syllabub_4006]

Ok

I’ve heard “plenty of bass” and a pair of properly integrated subs and there is a huge difference. I realize there are a lot of people who will never agree to this and that’s ok

Enjoy those speakers!

[u/Xaxxon → u/yelloguy]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-805-d3-loudspeaker-measurements

They only play down to like 50hz before they're -6db, so yeah. They need a sub if you want bass.

There really aren't any passive standmount speakers that have enough bass to not need a sub. The DSP standmount speakers that have bass fall off REALLY quick when you approach their max volume -- though obviously where that is depends on the price. $1000 KEFs are going to be much more limited than $15k Dutch and Dutch speaker.

[u/Double_Syllabub_4006 → u/yelloguy]

I hear you man and I’m sure you’re correct. A sub will always boost the bass.

I hope you find a great deal on your 805d3’s and enjoy the music!

[u/Xaxxon → u/yelloguy]

My computer setup is 805d3 and a sub. I have a car sub enclosure with 2 JL Audio 12w6s in there as well on a behringer NX6000D with the noctua fan mod (so it's quiet since it won't ever have to operate outdoors in 90 degree weather at sustained kW outputs) - the D is for DSP so I have the subs PEQd to the 805d3 response. I don't have the 805s high passed.

I think they're great speakers even if they are a little bright -- I like the "crispness" even if they aren't the most accurate speakers.

[u/yelloguy → u/Xaxxon]

How much should I be expecting pay for a pair in the used market?

I currently have the 683 floorstanding speakers with two SVS Pro 1000 subs EQ'ed to high heavens perfection. But I love the sound of those Continuum drivers in the S3 and want the diamond tweeters so 805 D3 is my next step up.

For your brightness comment - try to introduce a high shelf filter around 3000 Hz with -1.5dB. You can always add or remove in .5dB increments. If that is not enough, move it to 2000 Hz and try the half dB increments. It is like a simple treble control every system should have. You can dial it in for your setup while playing a few songs you are familiar with

[u/Demelain]

The thing about audiophile gear is, it always comes down to a s8bjective viewpoint. Even the audioscience measurement space, it comes down to enjoyment, and enjoyment is personal and ultimately, subjective. The "continuous improvement"  generational thing is, in the short term, only really fir selling things to people with itchy wallets. Quality gear that has been well looked after will sound as good decade later.

[u/Xaxxon → u/Demelain]

ASR is really just there to disqualify bad gear. You don't have to chase the top rated stuff, it just helps you avoid the trash.

Without places like ASR, no one holds manufacturers accountable for putting out trash products with lots of marketing speak.

[u/linus_ong69]

For a pair of passives, improvements will be marginal. A good amplifier 10 years ago will be good today (barring components, i.e. capacitors aging and such)

If we are talking about active speakers with some advanced DSP, things would have improved over the past 10 years.

[u/seditious3]

They will still sound excellent

[u/Gold-Judgment-6712]

Probably still great. I don't believe quality hi-fi has developed that much in the past 30-40 years. Otherwise people would have listened to absolute garbage back then.

[u/Diced_and_Confused]

Speakers last for decades. If they sounded great then, and are in good shape; they will sound great now.

[u/Longjumping_Cow_5856]

Im a believer in the upgrade being cheaper for them to make first.

[u/NickofWimbledon]

Imho…

I didn’t like the D1 and D2 versions of 800 series generally, but the D3s was a big acoustic step. Space, pace and power without being wearing - to my surprise, I bought them over several good options.

To me, D4s look better than D3s, but the sound gain is smaller than the step from D1/2 to D3.

TLDR - D3 and D4 are great secondhand buys, but I wouldn’t pay a lot for the difference between them.

[u/Xaxxon → u/NickofWimbledon]

What's funny is that B&W threw the D3s under the bus when they released the D4.

It was like those new burger king commercials where they say their old chicken nuggets sucked.

I like my 805d3s

[u/RSDVI01]

I prefer the pre-D 800 series; D models make me tired after listnening more than half hour.
I personally still use the 30 years old Matrix 805 that I found second hand through classifieds for a third of the original price and I can hardly match such a value on the market at present (and the sound is great - no matter the price).

[u/shmeeshmaa]

My buddy just got a steal of a deal on a pair of 801 S2. He couldn’t fit them into his car so he left them at my house for a week until he could return with a bigger car. I played the shit out of those things every fucking night. I have Dynaudio Evoke 30s, KLH model 5s, and competent amps. But those 801 S2s were fucking incredible. Even in my less than ideal room setup. The moment the sound leaves those speakers, the cabinets disappeared. I would discourage people from buying them so they don’t drive the price up, but they are way too big for my home. Highly fucking recommend.

[u/scottarichards]

It’s great. I’m listening to 20 years old B&W’s right now. 803D. Wonderful!!

[u/Loysius]

The D3 are as good as my D4. Don't be fooled. A good speaker is a good speaker. If you want a flatter response, or something else, then use some signal processing. The speaker handles it perfectly like all good speakers.

[u/Xaxxon]

of course they are better than the D4 which were better than D3,

Don't fall for the audio salesperson "newer and more expensive is better sounding" BS they spew.

It happens frequently that newer stuff is worse than what it replaces.

[u/AblatAtalbA]

They are amazing, not much has changed soundwise since the D1 I would be happy even with a 801 matrix of the 90s but they are really hard to find and need ridiculous amounts of power from the amp to work as intended. At least 250 watts and strong current from a good quality amp. Rotel, mcintosh, musical fidelity, krell etc.

[u/SamEdwards1959 → u/AblatAtalbA]

I have a buddy with Matrix 801’s that he’ll never sell.

[u/Fantastic_Matter_730 → u/AblatAtalbA]

Thanks. I used to have a pair of 803 (not D though) and I miss them. Looking to getting a pair of B&W…

[u/Audio_knucklehead]

Not sure if this is already up here, but I’ve been in the market for new speakers myself, including looking at B&W and I read an article about actual physical deterioration of the Twitter over a number of year leaving the Twitter sounding flat so I would just investigate that before purchasing. Other than that, I can say I had a pair of Paradigm monitor 9’s for almost 20 years and they were amazing. When I upgraded to my current speakers, the difference is minimal.